I was doing a cpc module recently, and the trainer was talking about audible warning sirens on lorries. He asked what possible message they could emit to cyclists. “F*** off” was abruptly suggested from someone at the back.
It’s all about attitude. For fourteen months I cycled every day from Waltham Abbey to Whitechapel and NOT ONCE did I get into any kerfuffle where I thought I could’ve become a cropper. People need to realise that a big truck is far easier to see and avoid by a cyclist than the other way around.
I think we are seeing natural selection at work.
I don’t feel any hatred at all to any other road user regardless of whether they use feet, hooves or wheels (with the notable exception of my neighbour who insists on leaving the arse end of his car over my drive) and I refuse to believe that there are motorists out there who hate cyclists enough to deliberately injure them (apart from the odd nutter with road rage that is).
I actually think that because we live in such a sanitised, risk adverse and eliminated society where we expect somebody else to ensure our wellbeing that to a large extent we’ve become blind to dangers that our parents would recognise immediately. More important than our duty of care to others is our duty of care to ourselves!
The simple answer is; don’t put yourself in such a position where you risk serious injury or death.
I have heard that the government are realising now that these incidents that are sadly becoming more common place especially in london are not solely down to driver error and that these “cyclists” may also need educating, meanwhile I think that sadly the police will still be taking the HGV driver to one side for a grilling. But no one has actually considered ever asking how the poor driver feels it’s always “lets feel sorry for the cyclist”. No one ever considers the long term impact to the drivers.
- Do they require any medical attention?
- will they recieve councelling/support if they are no longer able to continue a career in driving?
- what effect will this have on drivers personal life- relationship breakkdown due to emotional stress/loss of earnings.
If someone jumps out in front on a train driver they are not criminalised and they receive supppot/councelling. So whats different for an HGV DRIVER. We are expected to be professionals but treated like 2nd class citizens. We are expected to be so much more than “drivers” but our pay and conditions do not currently reflect this, surly enough is enough!!
JON
:
If someone jumps out in front on a train driver they are not criminalised and they receive supppot/councelling. So whats different for an HGV DRIVER. We are expected to be professionals but treated like 2nd class citizens. We are expected to be so much more than “drivers” but our pay and conditions do not currently reflect this, surly enough is enough!!
How many accidents involving HGV’s and other road users are in fact suicides?
NOVE:
I have been driving professionally for 3 years.In all that time I have had 3 sets of drivers mirrors ter-watt-ed off. Every time it was a tipper. On the limiter, on a country lane/ B road.
Sadly, the tipper type trucks do always seem to be in a hurry.
I keep seeing these signs saying ‘think bike’ maybe it’s about time we had some saying ‘think truck’!
maybe we should coat the nearside of our trucks with fifth wheel grease, eventually they’d realise it’s not a good place to be!
albion1971:
K5Project:
RIP to who’s involved no matter who’s fault I wouldn’t wish it upon anyone.
The truck driver for having to live with it his whole life and all the should of, would of could of, and the cyclist who in one tragic event lost his/her life
but I’m tired of this pro cyclist bull crap about the blind spot is now excuse trucks can’t use where there is a even easier/simpler solution with part blame on the cyclist.What more can hauliers do? London trucks need as said above over £1500 cyclist safety equipment needed on most trucks (paid by the haulers) to even be able to enter/work on sites in London.
Not point blame or fault but surly a pedal bike is easier to stop, more agile, change direction and is easier to keep out the others way then a lorry. FACT its easier for a cyclist to see a HGV then a HGV to see a cyclist why don’t they fall back a bit be patient and see where its going before they travel in front or down the side Or even take a moment to make sure they are seen by the driver just cause he should don’t mean he has.Yes I know cyclists have right of way but surely common sense should take over
(like it does if your going down a single track country lane in your car you’ve got right of way but you meet a HGV its easier for you to back up and move or pull to one side so he can pass. you do this cause A) it’s easier for you to move then him B) you move to reduce the risk of accident)
The other problem is with the highway code old and the Law system in general laws aren’t deleted and rewritten there amended or new ones made to co exist with the old onesYou say what more can hauliers do? All these new fancy contraptions are no good if there is an incompetent driver behind the wheel.It is the drivers and cyclists that need to change their ways and attitudes.
I am not saying this was the case here as nobody knows what happened to cause this tragic event however it is very apparent there is a strong biased element towards it always being the cyclists to blame.
Maybe drivers need more training regarding cyclists.Everyday driving would suggest there are some pretty clueless ones out there so maybe they are the ones involved in these accidents.
Also the hatred element is very apparent in some of the posts.
All very sad really.
which is why I’m saying is why keep trying to change some thing whilst don’t matter how many bells and whistles you put on it, is a great force and weight with a human behind the wheel (human error) when the bicycle and the riders is the easiest and make more logical sense to to change.
I agree with the cycle training.
Alot of the hatred comes from drivers feel like there to blame all the time just look on some of the twitter posts about the accident the cyclist was rumoured to be on the phone at the time, Rather then people saying well maybe it wasn’t all the drivers fault he’s already got a noose around his neck (figuratively) because instantly the blame is put on the drivers by cyclists as soon as the accident is reported cyclist have to be the victims all the time never in there eyes the cause.
Laws need to be rewritten in the highway code and some cyclist enforcement is needed ie red lights, round abouts etc, alot of them just think cause the book says they have right of way they just go for it, it be ok as I’m in the right which in theory is fine but when your fleshy and fragile against steel physics don’t care if you should be there or not
K5 You seem to be biased against cyclists like many on here.I agree cyclists are a big problem but so are incompetent drivers.
You mention about a cyclist on a phone! How many drivers do you see using a phone compared to cyclists? Probably about 100 to 1.
You also mention about right of way.As with so many drivers they are ignorant of the rules.No driver ever has right of way.
rambo19:
NOVE:
I have been driving professionally for 3 years.In all that time I have had 3 sets of drivers mirrors ter-watt-ed off. Every time it was a tipper. On the limiter, on a country lane/ B road.
Sadly, the tipper type trucks do always seem to be in a hurry.
I suspect that the reason for this may sometimes be attributable to the company. Many are known to have adopted a policy of paying by the load - in effect piecework. This can only encourage a more gung-ho style of driving, as the driver`s income is directly linked to his “productivity”. Might be an idea to outlaw this type of pay structure within the transport industry?
When I used to drive tippers, 'tis true there was pressure to speed along everywhere and get the loads in. It wasn’t always down to monetary reasons, but sometimes down to the boss’s ‘blue eyed boys’ (see ■■■■ kissers) setting a ridiculous pace, to creep and crawl as far up said boss’s backside as possible. If you didn’t keep up, you had the “how come ■■■ has done eight loads and you have only done seven?” rhetoric when you got back of an evening, as often from the people on the sites too.
The only practical way you would ever stop the errant so called ‘professional driver’ racing around like an idiot, is to target them repeatedly and to make sure the owners that are getting them to rush around are also penalised. I personally would have liked defensive driving techniques and increasing your spatial awareness as compulsory elements of the dcpc, rather than the customer service and eco driving crud they currently purvey. By the same token the police also need to target the errant cyclists too and in extreme cases take the bikes off them and crush the ■■■■ things, if they are causing a danger to themselves and others.
The answer is simple really!! Ban lorries from London! And all large urban areas!
Then watch as the death rates don’t go down amongst our two-wheel riding friends!
Natural selection at work is what we are seeing in London! Oh!! And I drove in and around London in everything including cycling for 30 years and never hurt a cyclist! 
LIBERTY_GUY:
When I used to drive tippers, 'tis true there was pressure to speed along everywhere and get the loads in. It wasn’t always down to monetary reasons, but sometimes down to the boss’s ‘blue eyed boys’ (see ■■■■ kissers) setting a ridiculous pace, to creep and crawl as far up said boss’s backside as possible. If you didn’t keep up, you had the “how come ■■■ has done eight loads and you have only done seven?” rhetoric when you got back of an evening, as often from the people on the sites too.
Absolutely spot-on.
In my short return to the tippers (August-March, two different firms) I experienced what the above post says. God knows what many would do if they lost their jobs, they’re incapable of anything but “rush, load, rush, tip, rush” etc etc.
I’ve been on London delveries most of this week, I think the worst cycling was south of the river. Had a couple of Dohertys tippers pull up alongside me in the right hand lane, only for them to cut me up and go straight ahead.
Doherty, Keltbray and Thames Materials; Clean licence holders need not apply. 
Cyclists are unregulated, untested, uninsured and more danger to themselves than any truck.
The sooner they are made to demonstrate a set standard before allowed on public roads, have proper insurance cover in place and are held to account for their illegal riding practices the sooner we will start to see less fatalities.
Until then, they will continue be the lemmings of the road and gather no sympathy from me when Darwinism removes them from the gene pool.
albion1971:
K5 You seem to be biased against cyclists like many on here.I agree cyclists are a big problem but so are incompetent drivers.
You mention about a cyclist on a phone! How many drivers do you see using a phone compared to cyclists? Probably about 100 to 1.
You also mention about right of way.As with so many drivers they are ignorant of the rules.No driver ever has right of way.
That’s the thing yes there’s alot of motorist on the phone but if I get caught I get points on my licence and if I get caught too many times I lose the right to drive a car. No matter what vehicle I drive on the road by LAW I have to a)Passes the right category theory and practical test to show I can use that vehicle on the road to a safe standard. (If I choose not to afterwards I lose that right)
B) That vehicle has to be insured. I’m am assessed as a Insurance risk if I’m a naughty boy on the road or careless and claim its harder for me to drive a more expensive car or I’m limited to what I can drive with my buget.
C)The vehicle has to be MOT’ed (most do some are exempt but we won’t get into that) which is a once a year check to make sure the vehicle meets the MINIMUM requirements to be fit to use on the roads.
D)Part of that MOT is my number plates are readable also it is a legal requirement for the keeper of a vehicle to keep there details updated so the authorises can trace said vehicle
C)Police/Vosa enforce vehicle offences from overloading to speeding, Jumping red lights, Nuisance complaints etc
Now any Tom, ■■■■ or harry or obnoxious prick can purchase and ride a bike even with no clue about the highway code or road sense. Yes you can get fined if caught (rarely happens) but repetitive poor cycling is just fines you can’t lose your ability to ride a bike (unless your poor cyclist inflicts a injury upon your self). A few cyclists have insurance but not a legal requirement and lets say they do hit someone or something they are hard to trace as no identifier. There bike can be dangerous but really who checks? Most cyclist think they have right of way as there not a motor vehicle or whatever the excuse is for that week
Cyclist always play the victim and most complain there hard done too
But yet all this the motorist is penalized for having to go though all these measures to use the road and yet the law see’s in the event of a accident even though the motorist has more training/competed steps to make sure there legal on the road that the motorist is guilty by police and media before they’ve investigated…no I can’t see why I’m biased at all
K5Project:
albion1971:
K5 You seem to be biased against cyclists like many on here.I agree cyclists are a big problem but so are incompetent drivers.
You mention about a cyclist on a phone! How many drivers do you see using a phone compared to cyclists? Probably about 100 to 1.
You also mention about right of way.As with so many drivers they are ignorant of the rules.No driver ever has right of way.That’s the thing yes there’s alot of motorist on the phone but if I get caught I get points on my licence and if I get caught too many times I lose the right to drive a car. No matter what vehicle I drive on the road by LAW I have to a)Passes the right category theory and practical test to show I can use that vehicle on the road to a safe standard. (If I choose not to afterwards I lose that right)
B) That vehicle has to be insured. I’m am assessed as a Insurance risk if I’m a naughty boy on the road or careless and claim its harder for me to drive a more expensive car or I’m limited to what I can drive with my buget.
C)The vehicle has to be MOT’ed (most do some are exempt but we won’t get into that) which is a once a year check to make sure the vehicle meets the MINIMUM requirements to be fit to use on the roads.
D)Part of that MOT is my number plates are readable also it is a legal requirement for the keeper of a vehicle to keep there details updated so the authorises can trace said vehicle
C)Police/Vosa enforce vehicle offences from overloading to speeding, Jumping red lights, Nuisance complaints etcNow any Tom, ■■■■ or harry or obnoxious prick can purchase and ride a bike even with no clue about the highway code or road sense. Yes you can get fined if caught (rarely happens) but repetitive poor cycling is just fines you can’t lose your ability to ride a bike (unless your poor cyclist inflicts a injury upon your self). A few cyclists have insurance but not a legal requirement and lets say they do hit someone or something they are hard to trace as no identifier. There bike can be dangerous but really who checks? Most cyclist think they have right of way as there not a motor vehicle or whatever the excuse is for that week
Cyclist always play the victim and most complain there hard done too
But yet all this the motorist is penalized for having to go though all these measures to use the road and yet the law see’s in the event of a accident even though the motorist has more training/competed steps to make sure there legal on the road that the motorist is guilty by police and media before they’ve investigated…no I can’t see why I’m biased at all
One solution is that cyclists have to go through all the hoops the driver of a motor vehicle goes through and that is unlikely to happen. Other points you omitted are eyesight, medical conditions.
Very surprised HEXHOLME hasn’t been on! 
albion1971:
You also mention about right of way.As with so many drivers they are ignorant of the rules.No driver ever has right of way.
So what do give way and stop lines mean in that case.There’s a big difference between reversing the priorities on a defensive driving basis as and when possible,as opposed to using that as an excuse when the zb hits the fan if someone takes that defensive driving for granted by ignoring the rules of the road.But if you really believe that then what were you on about here in blaming the truck driver when according to your rules no driver supposedly has ‘priority’.When ironically even Stevie Wonder could have seen that was actually a case where the vehicle on the roundabout should have given way to the truck on that basis of using defensive driving and thereby reversing the priorities without making a drama about it.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=111491&p=1702425&hilit=roundabout#p1698584
Muckaway:
LIBERTY_GUY:
When I used to drive tippers, 'tis true there was pressure to speed along everywhere and get the loads in. It wasn’t always down to monetary reasons, but sometimes down to the boss’s ‘blue eyed boys’ (see ■■■■ kissers) setting a ridiculous pace, to creep and crawl as far up said boss’s backside as possible. If you didn’t keep up, you had the “how come ■■■ has done eight loads and you have only done seven?” rhetoric when you got back of an evening, as often from the people on the sites too.Absolutely spot-on.
In my short return to the tippers (August-March, two different firms) I experienced what the above post says. God knows what many would do if they lost their jobs, they’re incapable of anything but “rush, load, rush, tip, rush” etc etc.
I’ve been on London delveries most of this week, I think the worst cycling was south of the river. Had a couple of Dohertys tippers pull up alongside me in the right hand lane, only for them to cut me up and go straight ahead.
Doherty, Keltbray and Thames Materials; Clean licence holders need not apply.
Nathan, some of Doherty’s drivers are really nice, well they are to me.
Carryfast:
albion1971:
You also mention about right of way.As with so many drivers they are ignorant of the rules.No driver ever has right of way.So what do give way and stop lines mean in that case.There’s a big difference between reversing the priorities on a defensive driving basis as and when possible,as opposed to using that as an excuse when the zb hits the fan if someone takes that defensive driving for granted by ignoring the rules of the road.But if you really believe that then what were you on about here in blaming the truck driver when according to your rules no driver supposedly has ‘priority’.When ironically even Stevie Wonder could have seen that was actually a case where the vehicle on the roundabout should have given way to the truck on that basis of using defensive driving and thereby reversing the priorities without making a drama about it.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=111491&p=1702425&hilit=roundabout#p1698584
Read my post again and try to understand exactly what I said instead of going off on one of your loopy rants and then it might be worth answering you but I doubt it.