Alert professional drivers?

[instructorone]

Good morning wheel nut, yes we are running ocrs courses for drivers, but we also run these courses for every one concerned in the industry.
I do agree that the legislation of today is to much, however, it is legislation and no matter how much we try to avoid it, we are unable too.

Being a driver for so many years, i understand exactly what the driver of today requires and i also understand customer requiements, i have managed to be successfull on both counts.

With the new corporate manslaughter charge, all drivers have to be certified, this is to clear any responsability from the customer, but it also should ensure that the driver drives in a professional manner.

I have not checked recently (records at Loughborough Universty), but the last time i did, there are some 3600 drivers at this moment in time in wheel chairs because they have unfortunately got into or out of the truck incorrectly. It is estimated that up to a third of these are suing there respective companys for NOT TRAINING them to enter or exit the cab accordingly.

Maybe if the training was in place, and all drivers actually understood legislation, things like this would not be happening.

Just A Thought

[spardo]

Instructorone:
including entrance and exit to the cab,

Please tell me it isn’t true, that the new wannabee drivers these days to the industry which I have loved need to be taught such things.

Little wonder that there is no time left to teach them how to go round roundabouts in a sensible manner.

[spardo]

instructorone:
I have not checked recently (records at Loughborough Universty), but the last time i did, there are some 3600 drivers at this moment in time in wheel chairs because they have unfortunately got into or out of the truck incorrectly. It is estimated that up to a third of these are suing there respective companys for NOT TRAINING them to enter or exit the cab accordingly.

Maybe if the training was in place, and all drivers actually understood legislation, things like this would not be happening.

Just A Thought

There is legislation about getting in and out of a wagon?
There are around 1,200 drivers actually admitting that they are too stupid to do this without training?
You’re having a laugh mate, pull the other one, then again, maybe you’re not if you can persuade such dimwits to part with their money so easily.

[instructorone]

hello spardo,

unfortunately these things have to be done. Because of the state of the industry today, claims being made against companys, health and safety and much more.

However, the up-side to this is that with all of the respective training, not only are both sides being protected, but it must improve road safety as well. If it does, then surely this is a good thing.

[wheel_nut]

instructorone:
Good morning wheel nut, yes we are running ocrs courses for drivers, but we also run these courses for every one concerned in the industry.
I do agree that the legislation of today is to much, however, it is legislation and no matter how much we try to avoid it, we are unable too.

Being a driver for so many years, i understand exactly what the driver of today requires and i also understand customer requiements, i have managed to be successfull on both counts.

With the new corporate manslaughter charge, all drivers have to be certified, this is to clear any responsability from the customer, but it also should ensure that the driver drives in a professional manner.

I have not checked recently (records at Loughborough Universty), but the last time i did, there are some 3600 drivers at this moment in time in wheel chairs because they have unfortunately got into or out of the truck incorrectly. It is estimated that up to a third of these are suing there respective companys for NOT TRAINING them to enter or exit the cab accordingly.

Maybe if the training was in place, and all drivers actually understood legislation, things like this would not be happening.

Just A Thought

I havent seen any legislation stating that a driver has to complete an OCRS course, could you post the link please? or is it that Alert Training & Agency are trading on peoples anxiety and insecurities?

I have looked through your various sections on the website and at first glance it looks like Alert Training is offering a course approved by the Department for Transport using DSA registered instructors.

OCRS

Of course that would be very cynical. However because of my cynicism I looked here, at the list of accredited DSA driver trainers and then I looked here,
at the DSA Fleet Trainers Register

But a Driver Recruitment Department or Employment Agency wouldn’t want to mislead it’s important customers would it.

As for your 3600 drivers in wheelchairs, you could do a search on this forum for “natural selection”

[instructorone]

I havent seen any legislation stating that a driver has to complete an OCRS course, could you post the link please?

I havent stated anywhere that it is legistration to be O.C.R.S. compliant…or that it is approved by the department for transport, i merely stated that we run O.C.R.S. courses for our drivers, free of charge and very time consuming i might add, we inform the clients we supply our drivers with this training to reassure the client that the driver is up to date with legistrations. It is the client that requested we supplied certificates to back this up, for their records.We also give the drivers the daily vehicle inspection training and the entry and exit from the cab, this is to give the clients peace of mind and to further knowledge to the driver. I commented that legislations are too much these days, i didnt link it to O.C.R.S. When all is said and done i am merely trying to bring professionalism back into the industry with updates on legistration and awareness of what can be expected from a professional driver, after all, some of our drivers are new passes, and if we arm them with the latest rules and regulations, show them how to do the walk round for daily vehicle inspections, then surely we are preparing them for a sucessful and rewarding career within the industry? Not like in the old days when it was pressure all the time to get the next job done, load through the breaks, work illegal hours…and so on. Several drivers have commented that it is good to be able to run legally with no fear of pressure from these companies, this is all explained in our O.C.R.S. courses, they are merely an awareness session of the drivers right to be legal on the road…

[burnie1]

After reading the commercial motor about how Chris Roe was doing his bit to make the industry professional and legal, it made me laugh when I read the following in the Leicester Mercury a few days later

BENEFITS-FRAUD COUPLE AVOID JAIL ‘BY A WHISKER’

10:30 - 09 June 2008

A couple involved in a £15,000 benefit fraud were told they had come “within a whisker” of going to jail.

Mum of five Kathleen Newton (46) admitted fraudulently claiming benefit as a single parent while living with partner Christopher Roe, who was in work.

Roe (48), an HGV driver and instructor, admitted a newly introduced offence of allowing Newton to fail to notify the authorities of a change in her personal circumstances, between January 2004 and October 2005.

At Leicester Crown Court, they each received a 16-week jail sentence suspended for 12 months, as well as a one-year community order.

Both were ordered to do 180 hours of unpaid work and pay £175 costs.

Warning the pair they had narrowly avoided jail, judge Simon Hammond said: “People who indulge in benefit fraud are cheats and are to be despised for that.”

John Snell, prosecuting, said surveillance was carried out at the couple’s address in Thornton Close, Braunstone, after a tip-off.

Inquires revealed Roe had given the address as his home in financial and employment documents.

When quizzed, the pair claimed Roe had only lived at Newton’s address for a month.

Mr Snell said the amount falsely claimed was £15,423 and the couple had known each other since 1994.

They had two children together, born in the 1990s.

At the time of the offences, Newton was claiming to be a single parent living alone with three of her five children.

Andrew Conboy, defending Newton, said the application for benefit began as a valid claim, but she failed to notify a change in her situation because of the unstable relationship with Roe.

He said, since 2006, they were both helping to run a family business.

Jagvir Sangherra, defending Roe, said: "He was coming and going from the address of Miss Newton and was living there towards the end of the investigation.

“He accepts full responsibility for his wrongdoing.”

[mikejk]

ROG:

Mikejk:

instructorone:
Kath is certainly a female which i’m sure aranger will be able to confirm, just as he will be able to confirm that i am a male!! [/b]

One of those is he i asume that’s why you never called me back

instructorone:
mikejk, im sorry but i do not understand all these smily’s and what they mean

I THINK he was referring to how aranger knew one was female and the other male - if you know what I mean

So was i

And i’m still waiting for my phonecall from anyone, man, women, i won’t care, appologising to me for totally bs’ing me and wasting my time about work at HSF Logistics.

[instructorone]

At the time of that offence, i was backwards and forwards between Ipswich and Leicester having family in both towns, yes, i did stay over at Kaths house at times, she made the claim in January 2004as a single parent, i was seen on occassions in June 2005 entering and leaving her premises because she had a family problem at that time and i was supporting her with her other children. As she claimed back in January 2004 the claim was declared false from that date, hence the fiqure involved. It is now law to charge both couples with the offence even though i was hardly there. I joined her family in Sep 2005 and as stated pleaded guilty to being at her address on occassions. What you read in the paper isn’t always entirely correct.

[aranger]

ROG of course I knew that I was taking a chance and would have been happy enough to rip up receipt if the definite job was or is given (its in the bin now anyway).

instructerone, thanks for reply and its is heartening to know that you understand how disappointing it was for me to go the extra mile and I hope your contact at this company is aware of the damage his broken promises to you are causing.

Back to expenses.

Kath refused to take my receipt and told me to send it to JSA when I start so I cant wait to start so I can claim this, travel, overnights and other expenses as it must be some wage to get all this off my tax.

It was the night sleeping in my Vectra outside your office that most bothers me though as I am still sore.

Best of luck to you mate but as stated I am sorted now and I would be off my head to give it up now only to discover there’s no work in a month.

You could send me a certificate saying I did OCRS course by way of an apology if you like.
Strings and bows kind of thing.

[wheel_nut]

instructorone:
I havent seen any legislation stating that a driver has to complete an OCRS course, could you post the link please?

I havent stated anywhere that it is legistration to be O.C.R.S. compliant…or that it is approved by the department for transport, i merely stated that we run O.C.R.S. courses for our drivers, free of charge and very time consuming i might add, we inform the clients we supply our drivers with this training to reassure the client that the driver is up to date with legistrations. It is the client that requested we supplied certificates to back this up, for their records.We also give the drivers the daily vehicle inspection training and the entry and exit from the cab, this is to give the clients peace of mind and to further knowledge to the driver. I commented that legislations are too much these days, i didnt link it to O.C.R.S. When all is said and done i am merely trying to bring professionalism back into the industry with updates on legistration and awareness of what can be expected from a professional driver, after all, some of our drivers are new passes, and if we arm them with the latest rules and regulations, show them how to do the walk round for daily vehicle inspections, then surely we are preparing them for a sucessful and rewarding career within the industry? Not like in the old days when it was pressure all the time to get the next job done, load through the breaks, work illegal hours…and so on. Several drivers have commented that it is good to be able to run legally with no fear of pressure from these companies, this is all explained in our O.C.R.S. courses, they are merely an awareness session of the drivers right to be legal on the road…

The Alert website, advertising OCRS courses recommends the OCRS course for drivers or lorry loaders, surely not a coincidence to share the same acronym as VOSA use in the front line enforcement tool against rogue operators.

alertlgvtraining.co.uk/ocrs.html

O.C.R.S.
Operators Compliance Risk Score

Whether you are the CPC holder for a small or large company, or an LGV driver, then this is a highly recommended course for you. We are currently working hand in hand with large Blue Chip companies delivering the OCRS. Whether you are the Company Director, Transport Operatives, the CPC holders, Drivers, or Lorry Loaders, you are all responsible for the safe keep of your company.

instructorone:
Good evening Andy1961. It is very refreshing to see that someone acknowledges ocrs and what it stands for, however, ocrs is a means of rating companies so that vosa can rate compliant/non-compliant companies hence reducing the number of compliant events

instructorone:

biggusdickusgb:
wtf is ocrs

OCRS is the Operators Compliant Risk Score which became legislation in January 2007. I am however not amazed that you are un-aware of this as many hauliers have ignored it, now VOSA are stopping non-compliant companies, WIMS working in conjunction with ANPR has proven to be very successful and the number of immediate prohibitions has risen greatly.

Drivers are being arrested along with company traffic operators and Directors, and in some cases jail sentences have been passed.

The reason for this is to reduce death on the roads.
IMHO if it saves one life per year, its working.

There will be a lot of interest in this post no doubt, especially after you are hoping to employ the best.

Our rates are as follows:
Mon - Fri from:

C1 £7.00ph
LGV 2 (Class C) £9.00ph
LGV 1 (Class C+E) £10.00ph

Saturday rates are from:

C1. £8.00ph
LGV 2 (C) £11.00ph
LGV 1 (C+E) £12.00ph

Sunday rates are from:
C1 £9.00ph
LGV 2 (C) £12.00ph
LGV 1 (C+E) £14.00ph

Forgive my skepticism, I am like a dog with a bone.

[instructorone]

Aranger.

As you know, we work with the J.S.A Group who act as your accountants.
If you work say, as an example, 50 hrs at £10.00 ph, that gets broken down. It works as: 50 @ £10.00ph = £500.00, they take 50 x £5.52 for national minimum wage which = £276 , that is tax deductable. The other £224 is offset against your tax with fuel for travelling to work, £25 a night late working (Night Out) or £15.00 for being out your home for 10 hrs or more, and £7.50 for meal allowance. £3 for using your office as a work place, Receitable expenses I.E hotels, and 6% of your wages, capped at £30.00 for their charges. One driver did, but its NOT a quote, 1x 12 hrs, 1 x 13.00 hrs, 2 x 13.25 hrs, 1 x 12.50 hrs, and 8 hrs for running in on Saturday. With the nights out that we pay him, (Separate from the £25 that is offset against his tax) his top line was just above £828.00 and he took home just over £692.00. however, JSA had made a mistake and charged him £18.50 tax on his nights out, so they owed him that back which would of taken his take home to just over £710.00, so Aranger, i believe you wont be dissappointed with your wages.

[instructorone]

Wheelnut…indeed you are like a dog with a bone…

All we are trying to do is help drivers be aware of latest legistration, it is in the drivers interest to be aware there are a lot of changes regarding the Working Time Directives. Lots of drivers are relieved to see some of these changes in place. And as stated before, some of our drivers are new passes and do not really know in depth what is expected from them, or what they can expect from their prospective employers. giving the drivers these courses opens their eyes to a lot of things that are now going on in the haulage industry.

[wheel_nut]

instructorone:
Wheelnut…indeed you are like a dog with a bone…

All we are trying to do is help drivers be aware of latest legistration, it is in the drivers interest to be aware there are a lot of changes regarding the Working Time Directives. Lots of drivers are relieved to see some of these changes in place. And as stated before, some of our drivers are new passes and do not really know in depth what is expected from them, or what they can expect from their prospective employers. giving the drivers these courses opens their eyes to a lot of things that are now going on in the haulage industry.

So stop pretending to be something you are not, admit to them you are a driver agency ■■■ training school like many others, fighting to keep your head above water in a very competitive market.

Instead of confusing the issue with OCRS or WIMS and ANPR. Give the drivers a nice fleece or a bodywarmer and pay them 12 quid an hour basic. Then you will get your pick of the best drivers available.

Train them free for the drivers CPC, not as some of the more disreputable companies do by offering an OCR CPC with a free LGV pass, or champagne breakfasts.
To a newcomer, and an old seasoned sceptic like myself your site seems to be offering something that they cannot get from anywhere else.

I dont agree with driver CPC but it is designed to instruct new drivers, and the old ones like you, like me. The difference being, the legislation is already passed for that. All drivers who want to continue working will have to complete the 7 hour course, & for us oldies we have to do 35 hours training every 5 years.

(oh look another acronym)

[driveroneuk]

instructorone:
im not prepared to say the name of the company that these drivers shall be working for, but the european side of things consist of one english company and two german companys which i have been involved with for many years.

It was just that bases seem very familiar & i was myself recently offered, “In house” a full time European contract as mentioned above and based in Ipswich. (with nights out paid at £30)

Annoyingly, i was unable to accept due to other commitments

[instructorone]

We never denied being a driver agency ■■■ training school. We are a small family business. We initially set out to just train the trainees to become good drivers, not just to pass the test. After they passed the test they were looking for work, and we passed them onto another agency to get work, without a single thanks from that agency!! All they were interested in was another driver to maximise their earnings. After a while we started looking for work ourselves for the drivers, and found some, as you are aware there are a lot of agencies around, and competition is rife. We were new to the scene, and had to keep our prices low to win some of the work. We do supply uniform after 30 days work with us, we’ve arranged a day out with the drivers, and a Christmas do with them, but we are not in the position to supply the drivers with £12.00 ph, as much as i’d like to, we can’t. Our rates are flat rate, we haven’t a single client who agreed to overtime rates so we cant pay it. We take on second tier work aswell, which is even less to our company but it gives the driver work. Yes we fight to keep our heads above water, we all know the first two years are crucial to a new business, but we are still here, and still battling, and i hope to be saying the same in another two years. Regarding giving the trainees something for free, as you say other companies do…nothing is for free, they’d be paying it in other ways.

[dafmad]

My question is this > Do you pay back a drivers fuel expenses to get to you, directly back to them or do you put in as an expenses against tax ? Big difference.

[instructorone]

It goes in as “training” which is expenses offset against the tax. The driver is informed of this when applying for a position.

[wheel_nut]

Needs Speakers

[driveroneuk]

How Operators Compliant Risk Score works… very basically:

Its based on a traffic light system.

1. truck gets a pull, no faults found, driver fully legal = green light.
   probably won’t be pulled again in a while (as the stopping is selective based on this system), when this truck is pulled again, it again has no faults & receives another green = unlikely to be stopped again for some time.

2. truck gets a pull, some minor issues found. no GV9 (Or is it PG9 nowadays?)
   will get pulled again, if further faults found traffic light will change to red. That truck will then be stopped at every available opportunity until a consistent “Green” run is obtained.

3. truck gets a 1st pull and is found to have serious faults (PG9’s). Will immediately incur a red light and so be stopped again frequently (Possibly also trigerring an operating centre inspection) until a run of green stops is achieved.

The driver’s input and ability to influence the outcome is quite limited providing he/she him/herself is fully legal with regards to license, unemployment claims, drivers hours, etc. Owner drivers have more liability.

Obviously, where a fleet is involved, over time a picture will emerge of what colour light that co’s trucks usually get on a stop.
A co. with a red will be heavily targeted, whilst one with a green will likely be left alone to get on with the job.

As i said, this is just a basic explanation to try and tell you roughly how it works, there may well be inaccuracies.
Although we have several members who are HATOS, i don’t think we have anyone, at least who is prepared to admit it, being from VOSA.