Agency drivers blacklist-

It appears to me that the intended source of revenue for de poel is information on the driver. I state quite categorically that I object to anyone holding personal information about me; I will also refuse to answer any written communication that asks me to quote a number or reference when replying. To do so only reinforces the view held by the other party that I am not a person with rights and feelings.
As the income revenue is based on driver information, then that data should
a) be made available to the driver free of charge, and
b) be guaranteed to be amended/corrected based on information provided by driver, or
c) BE REMOVED COMPLETELY IF SO REQUESTED BY THE DRIVER.

There, I’ve said my piece for what it is worth. It is bad enough living in Blair’s gulag without people like this joining in the suppression.

Only one question for Depeol,

Will you publish a list of companys and agencys that use your services.
That way me and others that object to you holding our information without our permission can boycott them if we wish.

I would not have a problem with this if I were not charged a fee for acessing my data. I’ve built an extremley good reputation up locally over the last few months, so much so that I have companies ringing my personal number and asking me to work for them as self employed.

Now, a for instance: I’m not paid my holiday money by a certain agency - neither are a lot of drivers :unamused:. I use(d) an account I hold with a factorors to recover said money. In a fit of pique :unamused:, the agency decide, totally unjustly and through a problem of their own making, to put my name onto this database. (I can also see it happening if you decide not to take a booking someone’s desperate to fill etc etc etc - where does it stop?)

I do not actually have a problem with this database as a whole. If we can get rid of the completley unprofessional drivers who breach hours law etc, then I think that would be excellent news and bolster the reputation of the agency driver. I am however not impressed at the way that its being done. If it were done fairly and with some thought, then I would be quite happy with it. If you contacted the induvidual with the information you were about to add to your database, rather than try to do this “on the quiet” as you so blatently have, then I would be quite happy to have my information held as it would bolster my reputation.

As an afterthought, could we have a similar sort of thing for agencies? Or would that be against the grain? I would happily pay to see their credit history, or any other information on them - weather they’re bad payers, etc. This would help me make a balanced descion as to who to work for.

Thankyou Rikki and TC for digging this one out. It will be most interesting to view the replies and see if they’re as forthcoming as I hope they’ll be.

David5l:
Will you publish a list of companys and agencys that use your services…?

Not knocking you or anything, and it’s a flipping good question, but can you really see De Poel publishing a list of companies and agencies?

If you and other drivers boycott these establishments then they won’t have any drivers.

If they don’t have drivers then they lose a huge proportion of their revenue. The companies and agencies will, in turn, boycott De Poel.

De Poel won’t be able to sell their addâ„¢ system and therefore won’t make massive amounts of money from the agencies.

We, the drivers, don’t really matter - it’s all down to how much cash they can make!

Furthermore, when half of us have left the industry because of this system and the other half are banned from 99.99% of companies, who’s going to replace us? Drivers from other european countries, working for the national minimum wage, who send half their money home to their families, thus screwing up our economy.

I apologise for the rant, I’ve had a flipping awful day!

Not knocking you or anything, and it’s a flipping good question, but can you really see De Poel publishing a list of companies and agencies?

No I don’t think they will

Because…

If you and other drivers boycott these establishments then they won’t have any drivers.

If they don’t have drivers then they lose a huge proportion of their revenue. The companies and agencies will, in turn, boycott De Poel.

which is exactly the point I was making :wink: :wink:

But now you gone and told depoel they’ll never publish a list :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp:

David5l:
But now you gone and told depoel they’ll never publish a list…

And you don’t think they haven’t already thought of that? Thats why we’re driving trucks and they’re driving Merc’s, Audi’s and BMW’s! They’re not completely stupid!

And would you mind telling us EXACTLY what information you intend to put in the finished version of the database and how you come/came by it.

View from one Agency

Most “Head Agency” agreements are designed to cut the hourly rate an Agency charges which usually means lower pay rates, is this going to be any different?

Even if this is just designed to remove bad Drivers, who is going to police the information bad Agencies enter?

Are you going to have to leave your chosen career because a Shift Supervisor has decided you are a bad Driver?

As an Agency owner I would never be comfortable with a “Head Agency” dictating to me which drivers can work and how much they will be paid, based on other peoples judgements not my own.

We have excellent Drivers who have had complaints made about them. If complaints are made they should be investigated fairly but the customer is not always right, It’s easy to blame it on the Agency driver not the load planning and sometimes it just that two people don’t see eye to eye.

We have by law to provide a copy of drivers professional qualifications (drivers licence) and copies of references if requested by clients. But we would not supply anything else without your consent.

I can’t speak for other agencies but I can also confirm:

We will never pass our drivers details onto another agency.
We will never deal with other agencies only the client directly.
We will never charge a driver for looking at any details we hold about them (we will even get them a cup of tea).

Why not ask your agency to confirm the above in writing for you.

Duncan Horsfall
Managing Director
1st Class Drivers Limited
1stclassdrivers.co.uk

Active link to your commercial site not edited as relevant to thread, but please review our policy on free links. - Rikki

The above views expressed may not be the views of 1st Class Drivers Ltd. But since I own it they probably are

I quite like the content of that post by Duncan.

I agree with his point of a shift supervisor deciding you are a bad driver because you have missed some impossible delivery time :exclamation:

And also the point of two people not seeing eye to eye.

That just about sums up the problems a common database would cause!

By the way welcome to the TruckNet Site Duncan

Rikki will be after you soon for some money :stuck_out_tongue:

Thank you Duncan, for your post expressing the views of the agency
which is even more the explicit well written points which the owner &
managingdirector , wrote. Many thanks Mr Duncan Horsfall .MD

Dear all,

We will now be collecting a list of the questions on this website.

Answers to the questions will be posted on Tuesday the 21st.

de Poel:
Answers to the questions will be posted on Tuesday the 21st.

By my reckoning the next month where the 21st is a Tuesday is June. That’s a long wait! Or perhaps you mean Tuesday the 22nd of February?

Paul

I apologise, I got the wrong date I meant the 22nd of February 2005.

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
Oops…!
That’s not exactly confidence - inspiring, is it ■■?

I know it’s easy enough for anyone at all to tap the wrong key (especially on a Monday morning :slight_smile: )…
BUT WHAT IF THAT WAS PART OF MY PERSONAL PROFILE …■■?

…That I had no knowledge that you had in the first place … :frowning:

· When was the database started?
· A — Trials began in Autumn 2004 before add’s official launch in December 2004

· Are their any other similar databases on the market?
· A- To our knowledge add is a unique offering by de Poel.

· How many drivers are currently on the system?
· A- Although always changing this number is currently in the region of 4000. It is our aim to exceed 10,000 drivers by 2006

· What is the charge for data information requests?
· A- £10 unfortunately due to an internal error this has in some cases been quoted as £25. This has never been charged at any point

· What is the name and contact details of the data protection officer?
· A- Kay Jones

· What information is stored on the system?
· A- Upon Registration
§ Name
§ Address
§ Photograph
§ Drivers licence number
§ DOB
§ NI Number
§ Individual PIN (Chosen by driver)
§ Next of Kin (For use in case of emergency)
§ Contact phone numbers
§ CRB Check carried out (if required and signed for by driver)
§ Licences held
§ Experience gained i.e. rope and sheet, refrigeration unit etc
Upon start of each assignment
§ Details of any Manual handling training
§ Details of any client assessment
§ Drivers declaration re: hours worked

Ongoing
· Details of accidents and incidents

· Is the information stored in the system factual or subjective?
· A- Factual — There are no free text fields once a driver has been set up any additions i.e. endorsements new licences gained e.g. ADR are chosen via drop down menus.

· Is there an easy way for drivers to contact the administrators to gain access to the information on the system?
· A- Due to the volume of drivers this is only possible by written request to de Poel. The driver’s agency could show a driver his record at any time via their access pc.

· How will drivers be able to change information stored about them in the system?
· A- depending on the information that needs to be changed this can be done in a couple of ways. Personal information can be amended by either the drivers agency or de Poel i.e. change of address, name etc. Licence information can be amended by either client i.e. end user or agency. Accident and incidents can only be entered by clients and should these occur they have to authorised by client senior management before appearing on the system.

· Are drivers informed that their details will be entered on the system?
· A- Yes. Contractually agencies should do this. However as a safe guard de Poel guarantee to write to all drivers added to the system within 48 hours of them being added informing them that they are now on the system and what this entails. Should a driver demonstrate that his or her permission was not granted to do so, de Poel will remove any and all records held.

· Is it a legal requirement to inform drivers before their details are entered on to the system?
· A- Yes.

· How is permission gained to input an individual’s details on the system?
· A- Via documentation provided to the driver by the hiring agency. This is not normally part of their standard terms and will form a separate document.

· What safe guards are in place to ensure the information is correct?
A- Agency’s and clients are contractually and legally bound to ensure to their best endevour that all information is accurate; in the same way as your personnel file would be should you be in permanent employment.

· How does de Poel ensure that drivers understand the implications of their details being placed on the system?
· A_ By asking agencies to inform their drivers before adding them. By ensuring that legally agencies are responsible to do this and as a safeguard by informing all drivers added within 48 hours that they are now logged on add, what is logged and the purpose of this.

· What guarantees are there that the information contained on the system is compliant with DPA?
· A- de Poel is registered with Data Protection and as such is legally bound to comply with all aspects of the act.

· Is de Poel under any legal obligation to check the integrity of the information in the system?
· A- No, although de Poel regularly checks the system for admin or malicious error. Both agencies and clients are legally bound to check the integrity of the information.

· How will de Poel ensure that agencies make it clear that they are going to be entering driver information on the system?
· A- As with the above answers. However any agency found to be in breach of this on a regular basis (Not one off error) will be removed and will no longer be able to supply de Poel Clients.

· What happens if de Poel finds out that an agency has added a driver’s detail without their knowledge?
· A- The driver will have the option to be removed from the system — at no cost. Depending on the regularity of this breach of contract de Poel would reserve the right under its terms and conditions to remove the agency from the system.

· How is the information protected?
· A- On a series of secure servers. Technical spec available upon request.

· How does de Poel ensure that agency drivers’ details are not released against their wishes?

· A- By advising drivers that they are going on to the system in the first instance. It is important to note that a drivers record can then only be accessed by entering three correct answers to security questions. Therefore only the drivers agency and any client that the driver wishes to provide this information to will be able to access his record.

· Is there any way other than by payment that a driver can check their details in the system?
· A- Yes, by asking his agency to show him the record on their pc.

· Is there any legal opt out for our information being held as there is with other data holders?
· A- Yes. Please advise your agency that you do not wish to be added to the system. They will then not add you.

· Who is the information shared with?
· A-de Poel clients — Including but not exclusive to TNT, Fiege Merlin, Sainsbury’s etc

· Will any company who wants to view a driver’s details be able to do so?
· A- No only de Poel clients that the driver wishes to drive for can view the information.

· Would all an agency’s clients be able to view the information in the system?
· A- No only de Poel clients that the driver wishes to drive for can view the information

· What information is shared between agencies and their clients?
· A- The information entered as stated earlier.

· What information is shared between agencies and other agencies?
· A-None unless the driver chooses to register with more than one agency and share this information.

· Would driver information be released to any company who requested it?
· A- No only de Poel clients that the driver wishes to drive for can view the information

· What happens if a driver leaves an agency?
· His information will remain on the system unless otherwise requested. Information can be adopted by another agency if the driver registers with that agency.

· What would happen if an online job club joins the database?
· A — Nothing, No search can be made of the database.

· Would the agency worker been informed of any incidents placed on their file?
· A- Only by request. As per a personnel file.

· What additional information can be added to incidents, does this include if the driver was blameworthy?
· A_ Type of accident e.g. RTA, Fatality and yes it will include Considered Blameworthy or not

· How does de Poel stop individuals who don’t see eye to eye with drivers from entering negative information about them?
· A- There is no free text field within the system and all accident information must be authorised by a client’s senior management.

· Would a driver be able to contest incorrectly entered incident information
· A — Yes

· Will de Poel be posting a list of agencies using add?
· A- No not currently, however most agencies are signing up to add and see it as a voluntary passport to work for legitimate drivers. It is important to note that the use and purchase of add is client and not agency driven. de Poel’s clients are instructing all their supplying agencies to use the system.

· Can agencies decide not to post negative comments against a driver?
· A- Agencies CANNOT post any negative comments about any driver.

· Will de Poel agree to withhold information held on an individual until they have received written confirmation from that individual that they have been consulted fully, and made aware of all the implications of their details being held on the database.
· A- No unfortunately this is not practicable.

· Are the agencies registered with you members of the REC?
· A- Yes the majority of agencies are registered with REC.

· Is de Poel a member of the REC?
· A- No de Poel is not an agency.

· Why have not all drivers working for TNT been informed by their agency that they are entered on to the system or received a letter informing them that their information is being entered into the database
· A- TNT Logistics UK Limited is currently undergoing trials of add with great success but only in certain parts of the country. This is subject to National roll out within 2005.

· How do de Poel implement cost reduction programmes?
· A- Not and never by reducing drivers pay rates! We actually reduce the number of agency suppliers to our clients and negotiate reduced margins with successful panel suppliers based on volume. De Poel typically increases drivers pay rates by 2-5 % through this process. Pay rates are fixed during this process so agencies cannot reduce them later to enhance their margins.

· Does de Poel operate an Agency master vendor solution?
· A_ No de Poel is not an agency

· How does the software for processing and analysing agency time sheets fit in with add?
· A — Currently it does not. We do have plans to link the two systems later this year enabling clients to ensure drivers are operating within the WTD and not working for multiple clients and agencies and therefore doing to many hours.

· Will de Poel compensate any driver for loss of earning as a result of incorrect information the driver database?
A- No, although the driver would be entitled to seek recompense from the individuals responsible for such wrongful entry.

· Will de Poel generate a list of disreputable agencies?
· A- No this does not fit with our objectives as a Limited company. Part of de Poel’s overall process is to protect clients and agency workers from such disreputable companies.

· Does the system comply with the DTI section 28.1(below)?
· A- Although we are not an agency in any way we are legally comfortable that we do adhere to all aspects of all legislation regarding data protection.

    • (1) Neither an agency nor an employment business may disclose information relating to a work-seeker, without the prior consent of that work-seeker, except -
      (a) for the purpose of providing work-finding services to that work-seeker;
      (b) for the purposes of any legal proceedings (including arbitration); or
      (c) in the case of a work-seeker who is a member of a professional body, to the professional body of which he is a member.

(2) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (1), an agency shall not disclose information relating to a work-seeker to any current employer of that work-seeker without that work-seeker’s prior consent, which has not by the time of such disclosure been withdrawn, and shall not make the provision of any services to that work-seeker conditional upon such consent being given or not withdrawn.

Additional Notes: Having read and taken onboard the genuine concerns expressed over the last week in this forum de Poel will:
1. Provide all drivers who are members of trucknetuk with one free copy of their records during 2005 upon written request and quoting their membership name.
2. Notify all drivers in writing should a Considered blameworthy accident or incident be added to their record. Drivers will then be able to contest this if applicable.

although im not entirely comfortable with this database i would like to thank the de poel director for taking the tie to answer the concerns posted, not many would .
i still think that the system is open to abuse(and we the drivers will suffer the consequences)as no system like this is allways fully secure or safe.
i also DO think that in some ways it IS a good idea ,but the cons outway the pros im afraid ,if a driver refuses to allow his details be entered on the data base will this make him unemployable to any agency?
sorry but its all too “BIG BROTHER” for my liking

Having read through De Poel’s answers to questions posed I too am of the view that the database is good in principle but lacks sufficient safeguards for the Driver.

The Drivers should also have ‘read only’ access to any database holding information about him or her with the ability to post directly to the website on which that database is held, any queries about, or corrections to information held there. These updates can then be administered by De Poel in the normal manner. De Poel could even make available on the website an official form for completion by the subject of the data, namely the Driver.

Q: What additional information can be added to incidents, does this include if the driver was blameworthy?
· A_ Type of accident e.g. RTA, Fatality and yes it will include Considered Blameworthy or not.

WHO will make the judgement as to whether a Driver is blameworthy or not? It cannot be left to any unqualified person who in the eyes of the law is not trained or qualified to draw such conclusions. The only way to effectively implement such a category of information would be via access to Police records as the criminal and civil justice systems are the only ones to can ascirtain if someone is to blame or not, it has to be tested in a court, not left to someones opinion. There is real danger here, beware!

agency drivers are not sheep! i don’t drive via an agency cos i cant get a job.i do it because i have control.and i will not use any agent that wants me to sine up to this sceam. if company’s want details of drivers then take them on full time,
who the hell do you think you are. to tell me i must be on this sceam so i can drive for a particular company. your just another example of THE TAIL TRYING TO WAG THE DOG :imp: :imp: :imp: :imp: mack

Once again I have to say I find the whole idea of this database offensive.

It still lacks one of the most basic safeguards, that is for De Poel to contact the driver BEFORE his details or any changes to those details are entered. Only by doing this can you be sure of the data you would be inputting would be correct. To put it in simple terms all databases follow the same principal “If you put crap in you get crap out”

And if DP are so sure this is a great system then why not allow the driver access to his own records via a web link and then enable the drivers to pass comment on the companies??

I am just about to go back onto agency work and the first question I will be asking is if they have any dealings with this database, if they do then I will leave them there and then. I will never sign up to such an insecure sytem that is loaded against the driver from the start. I really do hope I am not the only person with this attitude and that together we can close the system down by making sure we all steer clear of the agencys that are signed on to it.

At least we must thank DePoel for taking the time to try and answer our concerns, I do appriciate the concessions they have made to both Trucknet members, and agrement to verify facts on any accident occurences prior to them being added to there data base. I would however suggest that prior to entering any drivers details DePoel write to each driver, (suggest registered mail) to verify all details are correct, and the driver whose details are to be added agrees to being added to your files, after all if he wants to work, and the details held are agreed as correct by all parties, and permission granted for his/hers details to be passed to prospective employers I cannot see at that point any problem.