Conor, you wouldn’t believe the number of people who use the forename of their first born child as a password.
[I wonder how many passwords will get changed here over the next few days!]
I can imagine some twit from Driver Hire using Driver as the logon and Hire as the password. Seen it all too often before
I can name at least 3 transport offices where the passwords for the system are securely held on bright yellow post it notes stuck to the monitor 
With regard to ongoing concerns and additional questions please raise them on here again and any and all sensible questions posted by Friday that have not already been answered will be by Monday.
Please define sensible
Sensible = those that can easily be answered or “spun” ?
non-sensible = those that de Poel cannot answer without taking away the cedibility in their system that they are trying very hard to build up 
or am I just being cynical 
Some questions for De Poel.
-
Will you remove from your database any driver who no longer works for any agency serving a client of yours?
-
Do you hold on your database records for employees of your clients who have been introduced by an agency?
-
Do you now, or do you intend, to hold records of client employees even if they have not been introduced by an agency?
-
Do your records come from central office records or local office records?
-
Who checks the checkers (no not Rikki
) to ensure their integrity?
This industry is full of people who will promise the earth and then dump on you as soon as your usefulness has ended. In my opinion this is another example of this practice.
Wiretwister:
Some questions for De Poel.
Will you remove from your database any driver who no longer works for any agency serving a client of yours?
Do you hold on your database records for employees of your clients who have been introduced by an agency?
Do you now, or do you intend, to hold records of client employees even if they have not been introduced by an agency?
Do your records come from central office records or local office records?
Who checks the checkers (no not Rikki
This industry is full of people who will promise the earth and then dump on you as soon as your usefulness has ended. In my opinion this is another example of this practice.
I would say that for the database to work they won’t delete drivers from the database but mark them as no longer working for that agency or some sort. They’ll end up with a massive database with the good the bad and the retired.
As for the integrity of the database, they would need to work out guidelines that , say, for every 12 months someone is on their database they need to contact the originating agency and get an update, and then do the same for the driver. This would be a massive project and the human element is going to make it quite expensive…
Have they thought this through?? Doesn’t seem like it. We’ll see though.
I’m no longer an agency driver, but my details are held by more than one agency. Some have different contact details for me depending on the type of work it is. Will all this lot be duplicated or can they work out the differences and keep them as the same record??
And are they going to stick this to just drivers or “upgrade” it to cover agency factory workers/warehouse workers down the line.
Because I can see the point that once they’ve got this up and running and the bugs and complaints ironed out they’ll sell the database idea to other agencies and companies and before you know it you’ll have to be on “their” database before you can get work, and you’ll have to be checked out by them. Another CRB? They’d probably want to incorporate that as well…
A question for De Poel.
Is it a requirement that any driver placed on the data base MUST BE EMPLOYED by that agency at that time ?
At what point does someone on the agencies books not get placed on your data base, if for example I had not worked for an agency for one month, or two or three months would I still be placed on the data base ?.
Also.
Can you give us a 100% guarantee that every driver on your data base has been informed, by you of there presence there & if not what actions will you take against your staff for this failing ?.
Can you explain why in the first contacts with this site your company told us that it was not your place to contact the drivers but you said it was a legal requirement ? & does this mean that your company staff are breaching the DPA ?.
Could De Poel explain please.
Quote:
Will any company who wants to view a driver’s details be able to do so?
· A- No only de Poel clients that the driver wishes to drive for can view the information.
How do you guarantee that any company on your book is only checking drivers they wish to employ ?. Do you check this fact with the applying driver ?.
·Quote:
Is de Poel under any legal obligation to check the integrity of the information in the system?
· A- No, although de Poel regularly checks the system for admin or malicious error. Both agencies and clients are legally bound to check the integrity of the information.
This needs defining & a full explanation.
Quote:
What additional information can be added to incidents, does this include if the driver was blameworthy?
· A_ Type of accident e.g. RTA, Fatality and yes it will include Considered Blameworthy or not
Who decides if its a blameworthy accident or not & do you record who made this decision so that you can defend this data in court ?.
Rikki-UK wrote:
The Recruitment and Employment Confederation have taken advice from their lawyers with regard to their code of practise and the data protection act:First de Poel is NOT a member of the REC and therefore the REC cannot say whether they believe that de Poel should/should not be offering this service.
They do say, they believe there may be issues connected with their members passing on information to de Poel.
They also stated that they take their Code of Conduct very seriously, and members of the REC are expected to uphold it in every wayThey suggest that anyone who works for an agency that is a member of the REC who has concerns over their information being passed onto de Poel without their express consent should contact them and they will investigate.
De Poel wrote
Quote:
· Are the agencies registered with you members of the REC?
· A- Yes the majority of agencies are registered with REC.
Have you clarified this with the REC ?.
Will the the REC provide us with infomation on why they support you, if they do ?.
If not could you inform us who is breaking the REC rules please.
Or do you condone those who breech REC rules & thus are less that they present themselves as.
Do you support agencies who lie to drivers ?.
Rikki-UK wrote:
Response for the DTIIn their opinion (on the information I gave them) de Poel is acting as an employment Business under section 13.2 of The Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003
De Poel wrote.
Quote:
Is de Poel a member of the REC?
· A- No de Poel is not an agency.
So have you checked your legal position & can you provide us with evidence from the DTI to prove you are operating legally ?.
Rikki-UK:
The plot thickensI have had an interesting conversation with a recruitment consultant for a franchisee of a major Driver Agency… I have promised not to reveal their identity or the agency involved.
A member here has drawn their attention to this thread, and asked them to confirm that they use de Poel.
This question was passed to the agencies head office and as a result the franchisee was told that involvement with de Poel is a matter of contract between the agency and one of its clients (a major logistic company) and in order to supply drivers they HAVE to submit the details to the database
They have been informed that due to this thread and therefore the possibility of drivers refusing to have their details entered on the database, thereby "reducing our available pool of drivers to ****** ( a major logistics company) "
They are to inform all new drivers that in order to process their timesheets they have to submit certain details to de Poel, with no mention of the add database.
The form drivers are to sign simply states they will let ******** (the agency) submit their details to de Poel.
They have no information sheets issued to them for giving to the prospective agency driver explaining the database. information held on it, or how they can view the information
This person has never been informed of any PIN system, and has certainly never supplied a driver with a PIN number
The person who phoned me told me as far as he understood, all they had to do was supply the client with the name and drivers licence number/NI number of the driver they were intending to place with the client, and the client would use this to confirm wether the driver was acceptable to them!
Is this agency breaking the DPA ?.
What actions are De Poel taking ?.
Do you know who the agency are ?
Are you contacting all the drivers NOW, to inform them of this agencies actions ?
If drivers are being lied to get them placed on your data base aere you in breech of the DPA ?.
Will you state here that De Poel data base is 100% legal & within the rules as per the DPA, & the REC.
And that all the agencies that place infomation on your system are doing so with the full knowledge & support of the drivers & the REC ?.
dePole. Would you be holding information on the people on the database yourselfs, or are you just a software vendor?
I have just noticed this thread as I was away last weekend and I must admit that were it to concern me I would be extremely worried indeed about my details and work records being bandied about between people who I have never met/worked for and probably never will do.
Fortunately the last agency work that I did was in the 1980´s.
Well done Rikki and the TruckNet team for bringing this problem out in to the open and ensuring that it receives the publicity and discussion that it merits.
Maybe in future companies of like mentalities will begin to realise that we are not all dimwits who will sit back and accept what ever they might try to impose upon us.
This looks like it could get nasty,well done rikki and the team
one i would like to ask is…Why do they need such a system next it will be unless you are regesterd with depoel we cant give you work…
jimbo
Go onto most agencies websites and you will see adverts for non existant jobs or jobs that were filled months ago.
Do I trust an agency to keep my details accurate and up to date? Sure I do!
When I get laid off, if I haven’t found the job I’m looking for, I’ll be signing on with a few agencies. My first question, when I arrive to interview them will be, “Do you have any dealings with dePoel Consulting?”. If the answer is yes to that, the interview will be terminated there and then, by me standing up and walking out.
http://www.cwcomms.com/sites/3i_edition01/mp/depoel.html
two things on this page
charge rate optimisation, now that to me seems to be anti competative and surely the dti would be interested in this, afterall if they are deciding what to pay that is tantamount to a cartel.
selection process, now are they going to choose what agencies supply drivers, this is even worse
It is foolish for drivers to allow them selves to be on the database, but the agencies are commiting suiside if they sign upto it because this one company will deal with who they like, and pay what they like, the power of this company would be emence and destroy agencies that are not onboard, just like what the supermarkets are like with the farmers
charge rate optimisation, now that to me seems to be anti competative and surely the dti would be interested in this, afterall if they are deciding what to pay that is tantamount to a cartel.
A number of agencies getting together and deciding to all charge a certain company/companies the same amount would amount to a cartel…
In this case the logistics company, advised by de Poel would set a rate they are prepared to pay… unfortunatly that is not a cartel, and is totally legal 
but the agencies are commiting suiside if they sign upto it
A number of agencies already have
The issue then becomes are those agencies drivers already on it aware of being on this database? and aware of the full imlications of being on it?
de Poel have stated they will contact those placed on it, but it is not clear wether that includes existing drivers already on there 
Unfortunatly what seems to be happening is that the major agencies are having noting to do with Depoel or their databse, but the smaller one man band type gencies will probably see it as a good idea, they will have lower overheads and see this as a way of getting into big name companies. What I can then see happening is these smaller agencies getting the worst type of drivers as they pay the lowest rates. This then means that the company being supplied to will have a run of bad drivers and as such will see the benefits of a database such as DePoels, so in my mind it is self perpetuating.
Dear All
I am hoping to answer all questions / queries finally as promised. To those of you whom have been closely following the discussion there will be an amount of repetition for which I apologise.
I would also like to mention that as yet nobody from this site has contacted de Poel directly to assertion further information on add. Please do, as only by being truly informed are we all able to ask pertinent and accurate questions.
I have outlined your points / questions in italics with our comment and answers in bold underneath.
Also DO think that in some ways it IS a good idea, but the cons outweigh the pros i’m afraid, if a driver refuses to allow his details be entered on the data base will this make him unemployable to any agency?
Sorry but its all too “BIG BROTHER” for my liking
A — No this would not make him unemployable to any other agency or indeed the agency that he is registering with. Some de Poel clients may however stipulate that they will not wish to utilise a driver without his records being added to add. In the case of multi site clients this will enable them to see records only where a driver has worked at that clients other locations. This will save on both client and driver time as the need for repetition of training, assessment and documentation will be removed.
The Drivers should also have ‘read only’ access to any database holding information about him or her with the ability to post directly to the website on which that database is held, any queries about, or corrections to information held there
A — Unfortunately this is not practicable as too many access points would be required within the system. Like any personnel file the driver does have access rights under the DPA.
I would however suggest that prior to entering any drivers details de Poel write to each driver, (suggest registered mail) to verify all details are correct, and the driver whose details are to be added agrees to being added to your files, after all if he wants to work, and the details held are agreed as correct by all parties, and permission granted for his/hers details to be passed to prospective employers I cannot see at that point any problem.
A- de Poel will, does and always has written to each and every driver added to the system. Unfortunately it is impossible to do so until the drivers are added, as we do not know whom they are until they are added.
What if you are not currently driving for an agency & / or in the past have driven for several / many different agencies?
This puts the emphasis back onto the driver to either pay £10 or spend a lot of time checking with past agencies
A- If you have not been informed that you are on the add system then you are not. It would be impossible for you to have been so without notification from either de Poel or a user of the system.
Will any company who wants to view a driver’s details be able to do so? · A- No only de Poel clients that the driver wishes to drive for can view the information.
How do they know this is the case unless they check with the driver?
If I ran a company registered with De Poel, given that I will need to employ drivers how will they know that only the drivers who are applying for jobs there are being checked?
A — Without information that only the driver can supply no client or agency can access a drivers record.
"How does de Poel stop individuals who don’t see eye to eye with drivers from entering negative information about them?
· A- There is no free text field within the system and all accident information must be authorised by a client’s senior management. "
There can be no guarantees that the senior management would even know as all it needs is an individual to have the logon details to be able to make an entry. However they appear to have addressed this by allowing the driver the opportunity to contest it.
A- Yes, there are guarantees. The system does not allow junior staff members to enter such information.
You also mention the driver having a “PIN”, so what is the use of the “Pin”, would it not be wise for all information on the driver to remain un-viewable until the driver had entered his pin in front of the customer? At least this way the information is only being released to people the driver is aware of. Under your current system any one who has the system can access anyone on the system if they know some of their basic details.
A- This is what currently happens.
I can name at least 3 transport offices where the passwords for the system are securely held on bright yellow post it notes stuck to the monitor
A- We believe this to be inaccurate. However please feel free to contact me directly with their details and I will have them removed from the system until such time as there security improves. If this where the case no records are viewable without the presence of the drier in question anyway.
- Will you remove from your database any driver who no longer works for any agency serving a client of yours?
A — No unless requested by the driver. We would not know that they had ceased employment.
- Do you hold on your database records for employees of your clients who have been introduced by an agency?
A - No
- Do you now, or do you intend to hold records of client employees even if they have not been introduced by an agency?
A — No not under the add system. As de Poel develops a wide range of products this may become the case if for example we developed a web based personnel records system.
- Do your records come from central office records or local office records?
A - NA
A question for de Poel.
Is it a requirement that any driver placed on the database MUST BE EMPLOYED by that agency at that time?
A — Yes when they are added or that that agency intends to place them. Please note that with a few exceptions agencies do not employ temps they utilise their services on a contract of services basis.
At what point does someone on the agencies books not get placed on your data base, if for example I had not worked for an agency for one month, or two or three months would I still be placed on the database?
A — Yes unless you wished to be removed. However this may be an issue if you wish to be re added and removed at the start of each assignment.
Also.
Can you give us a 100% guarantee that every driver on your data base has been informed, by you of there presence there & if not what actions will you take against your staff for this failing?
A - Yes as per previous answers.
Can you explain why in the first contacts with this site your company told us that it was not your place to contact the drivers but you said it was a legal requirement? & Does this mean that your company staff are breaching the DPA?
A — At no point have we been in breech of DPA. Agencies add drivers to add and both de Poel and the driver’s agency notify the driver that he/she has been added.
Have you clarified this with the REC?
A — de Poel has contacted the REC and as yet has received no reply.
Will the REC provide us with information on why they support you, if they do?
A — We are not member s of the REC and are not an agency
If not could you inform us who is breaking the REC rules please.
A — In short nobody is breaking any laws rules or regulations.
Or do you condone those who breech REC rules & thus are less that they present themselves as.
A — No de Poel do not support agencies who breech the REC’s code of conduct.
Do you support agencies that lie to drivers?
A — No of course not de Poel is an open and honest company and has pride in itself as such. We would therefore not look to work with any companies with a less than 100% honest approach.
Will you state here that De Poel database is 100% legal & within the rules as per the DPA, & the REC.
A- de Poel’s add database is 100% legal.
And that all the agencies that place information on your system are doing so with the full knowledge & support of the drivers & the REC?
A — Yes all drivers added to the system have been informed so by their agency, what the database does and why it exists. We had not seeked the support of the REC until this time but would be grateful of their endorsement.
Have just noticed this thread as I was away last weekend and I must admit that were it to concern me I would be extremely worried indeed about my details and work records being bandied about between people who I have never met/worked for and probably never will do.
A — this is impossible and would not happen.
I trust that this is to your satisfaction and thank you for your input.
It is not my intention to continue any further discussions within this forum due to time constraints. Should any individuals have further questions, I will respond to any, which I receive in writing to:
Mr Matthew Sanders
Director
De Poel Consulting Limited
The Old Shippon
Moseley Hall Farm
Knutsford
Cheshire
WA16 8RB
Once more many thanks and keep on trucking!!