New to adr but not new to driving, so wondering if anyone has any information on this particular subject as I find very little online.
I have started with a new employer who break down batteries, it’s 99% lithium oxide 1% sulphuric acid. It runs through a category C tunnel in a bulk tipper (sealed) I believe it’s class 8 on the A.D.R
However I do not currently hold any adr certificate or qualifications.
So what would be the penalty if I were pulled over by vosa, as I’m being told it’s okay as they have booked me in for an adr course in the next month.
I’ve also been told that I can get away with not showing the orange plaques if I say “I forgot to flip them” I can’t see this as it’s loaded the night before and surely it would come under part of my walk round
So what would the penalty be for not showing orange plaques a. Un number?
They also do not stop at this tunnel to have the paperwork load checked which I believe is what you’re supposed to do with hazardous it’s before 5 am so I think I can go single carriage with escort? But am I just being finicky and not picking or am I right in believing this is some serious offences? I don’t think they know very much themselves as the transport manager has only been in the job 2 minutes
Any knowledge on this subject would be very much appreciated thankyou
Is this a wind-up?
In case it is serious…
Is Lithium Oxide / 1% H2SO4 hazardous/ADR ?
I don’t know, but if you are told you need a Haz ticket and placards then it probably is.
That is as OK as driving a truck without a driving licence today, because you have a course booked for later on.
It is not OK at all.
Again, ridiculous.
If carrying hazardous goods the company also needs a specialist DGSA officer.
I don’t know what tunnel you mean, but even ignoring tunnels… Transporting undeclared hazardous goods on the road could be a criminal offence.
Thousands in fines and prison for driver, company, etc.
If this is not a wind-up…do not do it.
Not a wind up, genuinely have no experience around this whole A.D.R and hazardous loads never had to look into it as I’ve been on general haulage for years.
I appreciate the feedback will tell them I’m not doing it until fully trained thankyou
No experience of ADR? well you’d better get some damn quick before you find yourself in a lot of trouble. And the people who are telling you WRONG information should be prosecuted.
Like the driver who had an ‘incident’ some years ago with a 20ft box on the back, he’d no idea what was in the box (it was Arsenic powder). IIRC he went to jail.
battery acid at 1% not sure on that. In case this is true there is a lot of missing information.
are you given a transport document
what vehicle
is it all dumped in randomly or is it properly packaged.
if packaged what size
when i did adr it all depended on what we were carrying and how much of each product we only dealt with whats known as lq’s (limited quantities). Until i did my adr i was always under the threshold so it is possible they are loading you the same. The company will have a dgsa somewhere although they may not be on site if there are multiple sites. Ask to speak to them to get all the relevant details
Oh wow, no definitely I agree my father sadly lost his life 2 years ago in a R.T.A after driving for 45 years this is the sort of thing I would of gone to him with but luckily I found this site, and to be honest road safety is and always has been my number one priority especially after the accident, for some reason there isn’t alot of information about a.d.r on the internet but I have told them I will not do it until trained properly. They have curtain siders that carry shrink wrapped sealed batteries which I believe doesn’t come under the adr rule but once the batteries are open and they remove the inside to be transported the lithium oxide and sulphuric acid comes under class 8 this is as much as I’ve been able to learn without a course but thankyou all of the information it is very much appreciated I do not wish to lose my licence or cause some hazardous incident because I dont know how to deal with worst cases scenario. So thankyou
It’s an artic bulk tipper, 27 ton pay load with a hazardous document that states 99% lithium oxide and 1% sulphuric acid, it says it’s class 8 going from a scrap yard to smelt
Sealed bulker
so its whole batteries thrown into the back basically. sorry i thought you meant they had been processed and separated into their component parts.
i would of argued that if they were whole lithium batteries then it would of come under class 9 but im not a dsga so take that with a pinch of salt.
again not 100% but if its a bulk tipper than you need the signs on the sides never mind the orange plates.
No you were correct it’s the material that comes out once they’re broken down to component parts well this is another confusing matter because I’ve been told it’s class 9 but the paperwork says UN class 8 either way I think it’s safer to refuse the tipper work until I have my adr especially considering they have an adr trained driver, I don’t think they are being purposely illegal they’re quite new to this industry themselves so I believe it may be lack of knowledge as before they were using a sub contractor to transport the broken battery insides. I just seem to be more paranoid and concerned than them about what I’m actually hauling 
So it aint a wind up then.
Thing is mate as soon as you asked the question …
‘What would be the penalty if…’’
Suggests to me that if somebody came on here and said…
‘It’s only about £xyz,… go for it’…
I’m assuming you would?
You cant get away with sh like this anymore like you could…say in the 80s, and it’s always good policy to believe nothing these firms tell you anyway, but check later, for good measure and to cover yourself I have found.
So at least you did the right thing,…so my apologies for my cyncical reply suggsting you were on a wind up/'pis5 take.
I said not to believe anything they tell you…
I went a bit far with a similar situation once sbout 20 years ago and I was proven wrong.
I went to pick up a Dutch tilt at the docks which had just been shipped over…
(bear in mind the Dutch would have you running bent all day long if you were daft enough to comply, at that time, …it was about 20 yrars ago,.they may be different now.)
The trailer had hazardous stickers all over it, so I rang up the office over there telling them I had no ADR so to give it to another driver.
They assured me it was ok, the stickers only applied to sea going journeys, so to remove them and carry on, I told them Aye right…and to do one.
Turned out they were telling the truth.
It still did not deter me from believing nothing I am told though.
Good luck with your ADR course.! 
I put that title because I’m trying to find out if it is actually a breach of the rules obviously it seems it is so no I wouldn’t do it if I found out it was only an £xyz fine.
I asked this question because what I’m being led to believe is that this is the very very lowest level of adr and I’ve found online what someone else just stated about limited quantities so I was trying to find out weather it’s inside or outside the law weather it’s the lithium oxide or sulphuric acid that is hazardous I now believe it’s both as I’ve found out lithium oxide reacts with oxygen so if it’s a sealed battery that can’t short out (shrink wrap) the it’s not adr but in the tipper once the materials come out the battery casing it is.
Don’t mind the cynical comment I gotta laugh myself abit I can see how it looks the confusion comes as if I were asked to carry for instance fuel or explosives or even a large amount of Hazardous asbestos then the answer would be a simple no, but from the information I can gather collecting these batteries on pallets is fine but taking them to the smelt in a bulk tipper is when they come under ADR rules. But I thankyou all once again for your help 
Did some work for xpo while back mutidrop work.some of the pallets had brand new carbattery’s. On going to shops.
Said not adr trained was told not need to be is limited quantity or something along them lines
If it is ADR, then it is ADR.
If it was harmless it would not be ADR.
I used to carry whiskey. In bottles it is OK. In a tanker it is hazardous.
A bulk carrier under the rules the same as a tanker.
A half ways competent Transport Manager should be all over this, and there should be a qualified DGSA in the loop, who also should be all over this.
thats what i was trying to get out of him. 1% acid means nothing how it contained what is the 1%… load strength apples what
i think the batteries count as packages so would come under lq depending how many you had means how many “points” for a better term under 1000 no adr 1000+ comes under adr. This is how i worked for 14 weeks for xpo doing chemical deliveries before they took me on full time and put me through my adr.
if they are broken down into component parts and you are carrying those parts how are they packaged. throwing it in loose with a few barrels of acid isnt packaged by any means. throwing it on a pallet isnt either.
btw as an aside dont let on that lithium oxide reacts with oxygen etc you will have all the ev owners up in arms that it isnt true
Ok, From my limited research the MSDS from Sigma Aldrich indicates to me that this should be carried under UN3262 CORROSIVE SOLID, BASIC, INORGANIC, N.O.S. (Dilithium oxide).in PGII
Forget the 1% Sulphuric Acid, it is a red herring for this discussion (IMO)…
So, you as the driver should have your ADR Drivers card to carry this load under Class 8 of ADR.(For packages/bulk only).
As too penalties, well, not a lawyer.