Sun 14h55, Sat 13h05, Mon 13h10, Tue 13h30, Wed 14h55, Thu 6h22 (should have been my day off but traffic gave instruction to do two more jobs, had to do a night out Wed due to Asda Lutterworth taking 3.5 h to unload me).
That’ll be another couple of infringements due to circumstances out of my control. I’ve been under instruction to break the law. Shall I write a nice letter to the traffic commissioner or what? Trouble with ‘earned recognition’ status a firm can do what they like… supposed to be monitored by DVSA every day.
jessejazza:
Sun 14h55, Sat 13h05, Mon 13h10, Tue 13h30, Wed 14h55, Thu 6h22 (should have been my day off but traffic gave instruction to do two more jobs, had to do a night out Wed due to Asda Lutterworth taking 3.5 h to unload me).
That’ll be another couple of infringements due to circumstances out of my control. I’ve been under instruction to break the law. Shall I write a nice letter to the traffic commissioner or what? Trouble with ‘earned recognition’ status a firm can do what they like… supposed to be monitored by DVSA every day.
Did you get that instruction in writing 
- if not then why not
If it was just WTD exceeded then no authority worries but if exceeded EU tacho regs then you could well be in the crap 
ROG:
jessejazza:
Sun 14h55, Sat 13h05, Mon 13h10, Tue 13h30, Wed 14h55, Thu 6h22 (should have been my day off but traffic gave instruction to do two more jobs, had to do a night out Wed due to Asda Lutterworth taking 3.5 h to unload me).
That’ll be another couple of infringements due to circumstances out of my control. I’ve been under instruction to break the law. Shall I write a nice letter to the traffic commissioner or what? Trouble with ‘earned recognition’ status a firm can do what they like… supposed to be monitored by DVSA every day.
a] Did you get that instruction in writing - if not then why not
b] If it was just WTD exceeded then no authority worries but if exceeded EU tacho regs then you could well be in the crap
a] No I was in a layby on the A14. Had to stay out as I was approaching 15 hours. I was driving home empty and then got a phone call to do a couple of jobs. My day off and duty time exceeded. Ah I suppose I should have asked them to send the instruction as an email. They have a responsibility to be checking what working hours they are giving and in my case exceeded due to having to unloading wait at Asda.
b] If I understand correctly exceeding WTD flags up an infringement. Like daily rest 08:59 - maybe one minute out BUT it’ll print out on the computer. That’s what counts.
P.S. the cab phone doesn’t work so have to use my own. I’ll put an expense form in tomorrow - they can pay my bundle and phone wear and tear say £2/wk.
When I did Class 2 one had to do working break. Class 1 is worse as one has no control over unloading time and one has received a run sheet when traffic have not planned in unloading/loading times. Refrigeration work is not worth the bother.
im reading this and getting a somewhat sense of deja vu…or is it only me seeing this again?
either way,take a stanley to the card,and burn the cab out to be safe.
apart from that,then write the "emergency situation ",covid mass hysteria "story and after that,dont be a ■■■■■ and keep your card right.
dieseldog999:
im reading this and getting a somewhat sense of deja vu…or is it only me seeing this again?
either way,take a stanley to the card,and burn the cab out to be safe.
apart from that,then write the "emergency situation ",covid mass hysteria "story and after that,dont be a ■■■■■ and keep your card right.
I don’t follow I’m afraid.
as far as I’m concerned I’m given instruction to brake the law. Only option is leaving.
jessejazza:
as far as I’m concerned I’m given instruction to brake the law. Only option is leaving.
Your option is to say - NO I AM NOT BREAKING THE LAW unless you send me that instruction by email/text etc - then see what the employer does…
If the employer fires you then must state the reason why so if you have not done anything wrong they are either going to lie or leave themselves open to you taking them to tribunal
Chances are the employer will do nothing
Based on the info provided, I’m not seeing what the issue is.
So if someone instructs you to break the law you will do exactly that, I think you need to engage brain and refuse!
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ROG:
jessejazza:
as far as I’m concerned I’m given instruction to brake the law. Only option is leaving.
Your option is to say - NO I AM NOT BREAKING THE LAW unless you send me that instruction by email/text etc - then see what the employer does…
If the employer fires you then must state the reason why so if you have not done anything wrong they are either going to lie or leave themselves open to you taking them to tribunal
Chances are the employer will do nothing
Previous jobs I’ve experienced similar - hence the post. I will get the infringement print out stating working hours exceeded and I will be expected to sign it (i.e. that I am in agreement). It will then be seen by the DVSA when they look on the company records (earned recognition status means direct access anytime by DVSA).
If you object you may get the sack. I hadn’t checked the exact hours I knew it was close but should be on the individual drivers records. [I use an A5 diary - note vehicle and trailer, start/finish times, arrival and departure times at locations. Use TimeCalc (an hours and mins calculator) on the phone for the sums.
I can refuse to sign the sheet and state I was given instruction to break the law. They enter what they like and the infringement ‘cast in stone’. Contacting the traffic commissioner in theory should be a route but I doubt that they’d ever do an inspection based on the request of a driver.
In the past I’ve found when one’s finished probation one will no longer be required. Meanwhile they sit back and wait to see if you are stopped. If one does recovery work and one night do a couple of accidents or a 165 - one automatically gets two infringements; one for insufficient rest, working hours exceeded. The year I did recovery work I ended up with about 15 pages of infringements. That is on my work record as far as any employer is concerned. For police jobs I would have been better to have removed the card and only put it in for day work to avoid having data written to the card (on emergency work one would never be stopped by DVSA - I don’t think they have the power to interrupt emergency work… if they did I’d refuse and just ask them to contact me another day). Despite having religiously done tacho printouts of all police work the company did not notify DVSA. I still carry them with me. Also carry a CV and so I can refer them to the dates and why I left the company.
As to the 28 day period I gather that one can be fined for infringements up to a year… if the DVSA want to. Would the DVSA visit and inspect a firm at a driver’s request NO.
I may be missing something, but the order you have given the days suggests possibly the hours were done in two separate weeks. This may put you in the clear in terms of WTD, but it depends on what you did before and after too.
However, you do appear to have reduced your rest more than three times between weekly rest periods. This is signified by five shifts being over 13 hours total length, which means by definition you couldn’t have had 11 hours rest in the 24 hour period. This is an EU drivers’ hours rule and the DVSA are interested in this.
I am assuming that you worked Saturday to Thursday.
You do need to work quite hard to do anything that will get you deep in the mire (if stopped). You may have a couple of minor infringements that the DVSA would certainly mention if you were stopped. Whether these add up to anything that you would be fined for would depend on what else is on your card.
Noremac:
I may be missing something, but the order you have given the days suggests possibly the hours were done in two separate weeks. This may put you in the clear in terms of WTD, but it depends on what you did before and after too.
However, you do appear to have reduced your rest more than three times between weekly rest periods. This is signified by five shifts being over 13 hours total length, which means by definition you couldn’t have had 11 hours rest in the 24 hour period. This is an EU drivers’ hours rule and the DVSA are interested in this.
I am assuming that you worked Saturday to Thursday.
You do need to work quite hard to do anything that will get you deep in the mire (if stopped). You may have a couple of minor infringements that the DVSA would certainly mention if you were stopped. Whether these add up to anything that you would be fined for would depend on what else is on your card.
many thanks for your reply.
I do 5+3 (this work cycle Sat to Wed). So over 13 hours true but I am given a starting time. Current situation allows for up to 11 hours driving and yet nothing specified for working time. If the instruction comes from the office who are supposed to check hours. I still received instruction Thu morning to break the law. From what i have experienced they do not allow adequate loading/unloading time on one’s run sheet. So one ends up getting into trouble. Result is simply dismissal… at the end of the day what is on your card is what counts and what an office say/do is up to them. Had my phone call 30 mins ago requiring attendance for a management meeting.
You possibly might be overestimating the seriousness of what is a simple minor infringement (or two). Companies will tell you about it and get you to sign a piece of paper to say you know about it. Yes, some companies will have a probation period during which you may need to keep these to a minimum. My advice would be to stay in the job until they tell you it is over rather than fall on your own sword for the sake of a minor infringement.
You should have known that your first three days used your reduced rests. You need to go in on the fourth day telling them that whatever happens you are either going to be back at the yard or parked up come 13 hours. Once they realise that you are probably going to be bringing stuff back or sacking collections, they will soon change the runs about.
Regarding the Thursday hours, the infringements appear to have happened before that. Your Saturday and Sunday shifts count in the previous week in terms of total hours for the purposes of WTD. It seems to me that you could have said no to the Thursday, but the fact that you stayed out meant that you were going to be on the road for some of Thursday anyway.
You also need to remember that transport managers can’t keep track of everyone’s hours. Drivers need to go in and tell the office if the run isn’t realistic or if the start time given isn’t going to work.
“ That’ll be another couple of infringements due to circumstances out of my control.”
But it’s completely in your control, it’s YOUR hours and YOUR license.
Every time they give you a task just remind them of the time you can work until and they will just find another driver to do it or drag it out until tomorrow. After all if you had an accident they would just download your card and regardless of what happened it would be seen as your fault because of your hours worked.
No one told you to break the law. That card is yours it has your name on it. Keep track of your hours if you cant do a job park it up. Try telling that to the Traffic commissioner she will be in stiches. Next time just say no if you get the sack then the DVSA can do your investigation.
WheelsofCardiff:
No one told you to break the law. That card is yours it has your name on it. Keep track of your hours if you cant do a job park it up. Try telling that to the Traffic commissioner she will be in stiches. Next time just say no if you get the sack then the DVSA can do your investigation.
When a traffic office knows what hours you have done (max WTD) and then instruct you to do another job - I call that giving instruction to break the law. I don’t think the DVSA could care less. Next time I’ll leave the truck on the roadside… I’d get the sack and I’d get the sack if I went into the office requesting an explanation.
jessejazza:
WheelsofCardiff:
No one told you to break the law. That card is yours it has your name on it. Keep track of your hours if you cant do a job park it up. Try telling that to the Traffic commissioner she will be in stiches. Next time just say no if you get the sack then the DVSA can do your investigation.
When a traffic office knows what hours you have done (max WTD) and then instruct you to do another job - I call that giving instruction to break the law. I don’t think the DVSA could care less. Next time I’ll leave the truck on the roadside… I’d get the sack and I’d get the sack if I went into the office requesting an explanation.
The traffic office will be full of people who do 8 hour shifts, they don’t really care. It’s your job to keep your card clean and it’s there job to find loads for trucks. They’ll respect you a whole lot more if you tell them you can’t do it because of Wtd rather then just breaking the law because they haven’t realised
Look for driver court hearings. Your company can be done for failure to keep records and maintenance. Drivers hours you will be in the dock on your own. As pointed above some office people only care about their loads. Keep track of your hours the only time i near 15 hours is Friday when going home. Take care of number 1 and make sure if its your day off dont answer the work phone.
Have you been driving long?
If I were in your position, the first time I may have considered it, but they’d have been on the phone and told that I can work until ■■:■■ and then it’s parked up for 11 or 9 off.
Your licence, your rules. They can ask you to do the job but you CAN refuse, try it some time…
You seem like a good guy, but you have got yourself a bit confused about the WTD week. It is not based on your working week, but based on a fixed week. This week is Monday to Sunday.
You are working 5 on and 3 off. Some fixed weeks you will only actually be working 4 days. It isn’t really surprising that your work want to get the most out of you on those 4 days. It is actually very difficult to reach 60 hours in 4 days.
In the fixed weeks where you are doing 5 days of course your work will have to reduce what they ask of you on each day.
I have created the following chart to show your working schedule. I have filled in your approximate working times, deducting an hour of break each day. I have filled in 11 hours for unknown days. Even with the extra 5/6 hour day, you appear to be okay.
As I have suggested you don’t seem to be deducting breaks from your total working time. If you deduct an hour off each day, your situation is improved by that alone.
Hope this helps.
Noremac:
You seem like a good guy, but you have got yourself a bit confused about the WTD week. It is not based on your working week, but based on a fixed week. This week is Monday to Sunday.
You are working 5 on and 3 off. Some fixed weeks you will only actually be working 4 days. It isn’t really surprising that your work want to get the most out of you on those 4 days. It is actually very difficult to reach 60 hours in 4 days.
In the fixed weeks where you are doing 5 days of course your work will have to reduce what they ask of you on each day.
I have created the following chart to show your working schedule. I have filled in your approximate working times, deducting an hour of break each day. I have filled in 11 hours for unknown days. Even with the extra 5/6 hour day, you appear to be okay.
0
As I have suggested you don’t seem to be deducting breaks from your total working time. If you deduct an hour off each day, your situation is improved by that alone.
Hope this helps.
I sincerely thank you for the time and effort you have spent in replying to this post.
I thought the WTD like drivers hours were between one’s weekly rest days. Whilst it is assumed one works Mon to Fri on printed regulations stuff. Break times I agree - the GOV.UK clearly states duty time excluding company work breaks. I worked for XPO and they clearly instructed one to have ONE HOUR break as it is unpaid - recommending taking breaks 15, 30, 15 thus in effect 65 hours at work. But unless a firm specify then it’s 60 hours… I asked about this at induction and it was confirmed max hours 60.
Even if the firm allowed for break time how does that work out with the DVSA printout. One infringement for each day over 13 hours (after the first 3 at over 13 hours).
For me things got worse when I found the flasher unit and indicator stalk had died. So I couldn’t get to work. Hoping they arrive today.
