7 Cards in One Week... Legal or Not? [MERGED]

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
321

ROG:

delboytwo:
Rog a new 24 hour period always starts at the end of a rest, you have agreed this on many occasions in many posts

Which regulation are you referring to :question:

both all every one of the ones that a driver works to :stuck_out_tongue:

gv262

To summarise, a driver who begins work at 06.00 on day 1 must, by 06.00 on day 2 at the latest, have completed either:

so you have completed your rest you could start work and as you started a new 24 hour period ( you don’t have to use all the 24 hours)

as what this post is on about you con on Monday start at 6 am finish at 7 am take 9 off go back to work at 4 pm and as you have completed a rest your now in a new 24 hour period

561/2007

Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the
previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall
have taken a new daily rest period.

so that’s why you start a new 24 hour period cos you had a rest of 9, 11, 24-44.59 and 45 hours rest and after a rest in all reg its is a new 24 hour period

you need to read some of your own post Rog as in the passed you have even said this yourself

and if you look here you see just that

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44747&start=0#p505256

322

Make your mind up - do you want to discuss the rules for the DAILY or WEEKLY regs :question:

323

Ok mate you tell me when a new 24 hour period starts in the Regs that your reading

cos in my thinking a new 24 hour period starts after a rest or a weekly rest or any rest that would be classed as a rest of 9 hours 11 hours 24 to 44.59 hours or a 45 hour rest

your missing the point you do not have to work the hole 24 hours for it to be a 24 hour period as said a new 24 hour period starts after a rest the 24 hour period could be in fact 1 minute long but as you have started you would still have to follow the regs for that 24 hour period buy having a rest and then starting a new 24 hour period

and if you can’t understand this you need to read the real regs again mate there is only one regulation for driver under EU regs and that is

REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 15 March 2006

the GV 262 is a guide as stated below

Disclaimer
This publication gives general guidance only and should not be regarded as a complete or authoritative statement of the law. The guidance will be updated to reflect any developments in new legislation or case law.
If you wish to check the legal position, you should refer to the main legislation listed in Annex 1 and, if necessary, seek your own legal advice. The guidance offered in this publication reflects VOSA’s current enforcement policy. It does not reflect interpretation of the law in other countries.

Annex 1:
Legislation

Relevant legislation
EU rules
EC Regulation 561/2006 on drivers’ hours and tachographs

324

ROG:
Make your mind up - do you want to discuss the rules for the DAILY or WEEKLY regs :question:

DITTO the above

325

ROG:

ROG:
Make your mind up - do you want to discuss the rules for the DAILY or WEEKLY regs :question:

DITTO the above

i am answering you

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44747&p=593221#p593017

as asked

or and by the way for you to be able to use 7 or more cards in a week it does mater about the amount of rest you have as well as the amount of work in a day so rest is a very important part of this

the trouble with you Rog is you don’t like it when some one know more than you if this post was from one of the guru’s you would not doubt a word of it

i have had enough of the post and this is my last post find someone else to wind up cos i am fed up with it :imp:

326

ROG:
Make your mind up - do you want to discuss the rules for the DAILY or WEEKLY regs :question:

This is getting nowhere as you will not answer which regs you want to discuss -

do you wish to discuss ? -

(A) the weekly rest regulation which mentions 6 X 24 hour periods


THE EU 561/2006 REGS:
Article 8
6. A weekly rest period shall start no later than at the end of six 24-hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest period.

OR

(B) the daily rest regulation which mentions a period of 24 hours


THE EU 561/2006 REGS:
Article 8
2. Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall have taken a new daily rest period.

I’ll discuss either but not both at the same time as they are seperate regulations with their own meanings.

327

ROG:

Mike-C:
In your calculation you omitted the equasion that a 24 hour period begins when you start work.

Sorry - where does it say that in that particular regulation and please do not introduce another seperate regulation :question:

Look in the definitions ROG and the case law on the subject, thats where you will find what a 24 hour period is. What you won’t find in the regulations is 144 hours, anywhere in any of them. You have all day and all wekk to look so go find and prove me wrong :wink:

328

Mike-C:
Look in the definitions ROG and the case law on the subject, thats where you will find what a 24 hour period is. What you won’t find in the regulations is 144 hours, anywhere in any of them. You have all day and all wekk to look so go find and prove me wrong

nothing in case law that refers to EC 561/2006 - unless YOU can prove me wrong

329

ROG:

ROG:
Make your mind up - do you want to discuss the rules for the DAILY or WEEKLY regs :question:

This is getting nowhere as you will not answer which regs you want to discuss -

do you wish to discuss ? -

(A) the weekly rest regulation which mentions 6 X 24 hour periods


THE EU 561/2006 REGS:
Article 8
6. A weekly rest period shall start no later than at the end of six 24-hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest period.

OR

(B) the daily rest regulation which mentions a period of 24 hours


THE EU 561/2006 REGS:
Article 8
2. Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall have taken a new daily rest period.

I’ll discuss either but not both at the same time as they are seperate regulations with their own meanings.

as you have edited this i will answer you

is the same, you start a new 24 hour period after a weekly rest and after a daily rest you start a new 24 hour period so there the same with regards the post

there may have a different meaning in a seam as to what there are but no matter which way you look at it you will start a new 24 hour period after a rest be it weekly or daily

330

delboytwo:
is the same

remember the IN and WITHIN thing :question: :wink: :wink:

331

I bet Neil has taken to the strong liquor, a lifetimes abstinence and he is probably on a bottle of single malt before breakfast with this thread :laughing:

332

Wheel Nut:
I bet Neil has taken to the strong liquor, a lifetimes abstinence and he is probably on a bottle of single malt before breakfast with this thread :laughing:

Thanks Wheel Nut - page 12 now started :laughing: :laughing:

I wonder how many pages for one thread this BB3 board can stand…

333

ROG:

delboytwo:
is the same

remember the IN and WITHIN thing :question: :wink: :wink:

it as nothing to do within or in you can’t start a 24 hour period within one cos its a new one

the 24 hour period is a start point you start work after a rest which gives you a fresh 24 hour period if you work for 10 hours and have 11 hour rest you have worked for 21 hours when you come back to work after the 11 hour rest you get a fresh 24 hour period the 24 hour period is a period of time within which you must fore fill you driving and rest requirements

once a rest that qualifies as a rest you start a new 24 hour period the 24 hour period is as long as you want it to be if you work one hour have 11 hours rest there it come there an other 24 hour period starts

the reg use 6x24 hours as a time between rests and that all and if you want to use vosa saying of 144 hour that’s your choice, but the best way to look at 6x24 hours is the time you start and the day and work out when the 6th 24 hour would come which if you start at 6am Monday would be 6 am Sunday and if you start a t6 am you could use as many cards as you so wished

334

Wheel Nut:
I bet Neil has taken to the strong liquor, a lifetimes abstinence and he is probably on a bottle of single malt before breakfast with this thread :laughing:

no mate he probably trying to find some popcorn cos you and Dave have eaten it all :stuck_out_tongue: :laughing:

335

Wheel Nut:
I bet Neil has taken to the strong liquor, a lifetimes abstinence and he is probably on a bottle of single malt before breakfast with this thread :laughing:

Keep your eye open for an IBC full of popcorn coming your way. :wink: :grimacing:

I tell ye, this’ll all end in grief in the headmaster’s study. :open_mouth:

336

so Rog let here yours when does a 24 hour period start cos i would love to know

337

It’s not the regulations that some are having a problem with here, it is the grasp of basic English.
That’s why I mentioned the IN & WITHIN thing.

A statement that says something IS a certain time frame is just that - a fixed time frame - in this case it is 6 X 24 hours - nice and simple - easy to understand.

What seems to be the problem is understanding the meaning in English of the word WITHIN when mentioning a time frame that has a set maximum - in this case 24 hours.

WITHIN means to complete whatever it is inside the limits of that time frame.
It does not mean that it IS the above mentioned fixed time frame - basic English

As stated in the case we are looking at, it also says that a new time frame will begin - that is the new maximum to which, whatever it is must be completed, is to be done inside the limits of that new time frame.

I’m no English teacher but I do have a pretty good understanding of certain aspects the language.
Perhaps we have someone who can explain the meaning in English better that I have tried to do… I would be grateful

338

ROG:
It’s not the regulations that some are having a problem with here, it is the grasp of basic English.
That’s why I mentioned the IN & WITHIN thing.

A statement that says something IS a certain time frame is just that - a fixed time frame - in this case it is 6 X 24 hours - nice and simple - easy to understand.

What seems to be the problem is understanding the meaning in English of the word WITHIN when mentioning a time frame that has a set maximum - in this case 24 hours.

WITHIN means to complete whatever it is inside the limits of that time frame.
It does not mean that it IS the above mentioned fixed time frame - basic English

As stated in the case we are looking at, it also says that a new time frame will begin - that is the new maximum to which, whatever it is must be completed, is to be done inside the limits of that new time frame.

I’m no English teacher but I do have a pretty good understanding of certain aspects the language.
Perhaps we have someone who can explain the meaning in English better that I have tried to do… I would be grateful

so in this bit in the regs were does it say within or in

A weekly rest period shall start no later than at the end of six
24-hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest
period.

OK the is only telling you when a weekly rest as to be taken does not say within or in

this bit is telling you to have a rest within but not what a 24 hour period is

Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the
previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall
have taken a new daily rest period.

Rog you missing the point within a period is what is required but you don’t have to do the full 24 hour period once you have completed a rest be it weekly or daily you start after it a new 24 hour period and within it you most have a rest so look at a 24 hour clock

you start Monday at 00.00 and finish at 15.00 and take a 9 hour rest that within the 24 hour period

you start Monday at 00.00 and finish at 12.00 and have 11 off that within 24 hour period

you come to work at 23 00 on Mon and start a new 24 hour period where you get a full drive of 10 hours(if you have one) a 15 hour duty(if you have one) and a 9 hour rest (if you have one ) if you what to so it a new 24 hour period an you would have every thing within 24 hours

339

I’ll rewrite the regs so it fits in with what you are saying…

ORIGNAL REGS
WITHIN each period of 24 hours after the end of the previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall have taken a new daily rest period.

REWRITE
IN each 24 hour period after the end of the previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall have taken a new daily rest period.

The REWRITE can now refer directly to this…
A weekly rest period shall start no later than at the end of six 24-hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest period.

If for any reason you cannot see or understand the difference then I respectfully suggest that you print off this post and take it to an expert in English language such as a qualified school, college or university English teacher who WILL be able to enlighten you with a better explanation than I can ever give.

340

ROG:

Mike-C:
Look in the definitions ROG and the case law on the subject, thats where you will find what a 24 hour period is. What you won’t find in the regulations is 144 hours, anywhere in any of them. You have all day and all wekk to look so go find and prove me wrong

nothing in case law that refers to EC 561/2006 - unless YOU can prove me wrong

Case law on definitions made before 2006 is highly unlikeley to refer to future regulations, they are ‘cited’ as instruments in the legaslative make up of the current regulations.
You ain’t looking hard enough. When you find it (hint: i’ve already posted a link to the cases affecting the legislation in this very thread !!) you’ll see a clarification in case law of when 24 hour periods begin and end. Right next to that Skills coaches one that always gets a mention!!
Any sign of that 144 hours in the legislation yet, i’m still looking myself trying to help you out !! I wonder if you’re having more luck than me?