one point here ,the reply was from ONE
german police man, sorry but as I posted
I would not do no more than 6 disks until
some one has from the offices of the EU
transport office writen and posted a reply which
lists the paragraph and gives a telephone no
WHY because each bloody country works
which ever way they wish and by haveing
some thing offical one stands a chance of
not getting delayed due to disagreements
and even then, that can and does not work,
Mike-C:
The police!!! think !!! LOL !!
pmsl 
Come on then, who is going to contact the DfT and point out the error in their advice and get them to clarify it?
Mike-C:
Come on then, who is going to contact the DfT and point out the error in their advice and get them to clarify it?
Hi mike i have sent a email to a TC name BB
Coffeeholic:
ROG, when you sayROG:
any 7 day period or 168 hours or 7 X 24 hoursThe maximum could be more than you are saying depending when in those any 7 days the rest is taken. there is a big difference between any 7 days and the fixed week. You seem to be basing your calculations where a driver begins on a Monday and takes his rest 6 days later, again that is different from any 7 days and the weekly rest regs don’t assume that to be the case.
Starting at the time of the first duty period in the first week which is at the end of a full weekly rest, what is the time that the first duty period can start in the following week if the driver can fill the maximum time allowed in the first week 
I worked this out to be exactly one week (7 X 24) 6 X 24 hours plus one reduced weekly rest of 24 hours - where did I err
Mike-C:
ROG:
I read that back to myself half a dozen times before posting it and was convinced that I had made my intention clear that I was refering to the maximum limits that a driver could do in any 7 day period or 168 hours or 7 X 24 hours.Where did I not make that clear as I am perplexed or maybe a driver can do more and I have not seen my error
The maximum you can work in between weekly rest periods is 6 24 hour periods
The maximum time inbetween the end of a weekly rest and the resumption of the next weeks duty is 189 hours. Not 168 hours, not seven days and not 7 x 24 either .
How did you get the figure of 189
I got 168 from 6 X 24 + 1 X 24
ROG:
I worked this out to be exactly one week (7 X 24) 6 X 24 hours plus one reduced weekly rest of 24 hours - where did I err
The word week in relation to the tacho rules is a very specific period and that is 00:00 Monday through to 24:00 Sunday. A week and 7 days are two very different periods as far as the tacho regulationss go. The period between weekly rest periods is also different from a ‘week’.
ROG:
I worked this out to be exactly one week (7 X 24) 6 X 24 hours plus one reduced weekly rest of 24 hours - where did I err
Coffeeholic:
The word week in relation to the tacho rules is a very specific period and that is 00:00 Monday through to 24:00 Sunday. A week and 7 days are two very different periods as far as the tacho regulationss go. The period between weekly rest periods is also different from a ‘week’.
I am beginning to see the light on this - I think…
It is the ‘wording’ that I am using to try and get my point across.
Perhaps it would be better if I asked a specific question in a given scenario 
SCENARIO;
A driver has a full weekly rest and starts his first working period at 0600 on a Wednesday morning.
The driver does 15 hours work with a 9 hour reduced daily rest for the first 3 days.
He then does 13 hours work with 11 hours daily rest for the next 2 days
He then does 13 hours work and I believe must then follow that with a weekly rest - he uses a reduced weekly rest of 24 hours.
Can a driver fit any more into that above scenario
If a driver cannot fit any more into that above scenario , then I have just shot myself as the next starting time will be 1900 on the Tuesday and not 0600 on the Wednesday as I originally thought 
ROG:
SCENARIO;
A driver has a full weekly rest and starts his first working period at 0600 on a Wednesday morning.
The driver does 15 hours work with a 9 hour reduced daily rest for the first 3 days.
He then does 13 hours work with 11 hours daily rest for the next 2 days
He then does 13 hours work and I believe must then follow that with a weekly restCan a driver fit any more into that above scenario
Given that he starts at 06:00 every day he will start his 6th shift at 06:00 Monday and working 13 hours, the maximum he can work having used all his allowed 9 hour daily rest periods for his first 3 shifts, he will finish at 19:00 that day and a reduced weekly rest means he can resume at 19:00 Tuesday.
So your 7 day/one week/168 hours is actually 157 hours so yes he could fit more into this period, another 11 hours to be exact. 
ROG:
If a driver cannot fit any more into that above scenario , then I have just shot myself as the next starting time will be 1900 on the Tuesday and not 0600 on the Wednesday as I originally thought
Hang on, you have that the wrong way round. You were insisting 6x24 hours work and 1 x 24 hours rest was the maximum you could fit into your 7 day period and because you missed a key points it isn’t so. The point you forgot in your calculation is the rest hours on day six count for both the daily and weekly rest period. You counted those as a daily rest to complete your 6th 24 hours and then added the 24 hour weekly rest on, you only need to account for another 13 hours to go with the 11 hours on day 6. 
So in your 7 day/one week/168 hours period you can fit 6 full length shifts + 5 minimum daily rest periods - 3x9 and 2 x11 + 1 x 24 hour weekly rest + 11 hours for another shift.
Coffeeholic:
So in your 7 day/one week/168 hours period you can fit 6 full length shifts + 5 minimum daily rest periods - 3x9 and 2 x11 + 1 x 24 hour weekly rest + 11 hours for another shift.
As I said - I’ve shot myself because, as you point out, the last 11 hours of rest following the last working period is INCLUDED in the 24 hour reduced weekly rest and then that leaves 11 hours spare to be work before the 168 hours is reached.
Although no more ‘working time’ (for want of a better phrase) can be done between the 2 weekly rests, more can be done in a full ‘calender’ week.
(used the word 'calende’r as that is not mentioned anywhere )
I know I’m just agreeing with what you have said but I though that if I wrote it then it might sink in better…
I can now see the problem in referring to ‘a week’ as a general term as the word ‘week’ could refer to many things where the regs are concerned.
I’ll now have to add a few more to my list
ROG:
Although no more ‘working time’ (for want of a better phrase) can be done between the 2 weekly rests,
Sorry to break it to you but actually there is potential for 6 more hours at work between the weekly rest periods in your example. The driver could, circumstances permitting, do 6x15 hour shifts each followed by 9 hours of rest so your maximum is now up by 17 hours.
ROG:
I can now see the problem in referring to ‘a week’ as a general term as the word ‘week’ could refer to many things where the regs are concerned.
Actually it can’t, a week can only be one thing as far as the regs are concerned.
Article 4, (i)
‘a week’ means the period of time between 00.00 on Monday and 24.00 on Sunday.
For example you hear drivers saying they can reduce their daily rest three times a week but as you know this isn’t correct, you can reduce three times between weekly rest periods which is a different thing entirely.
SCENARIO 1;
We stop using Scenarios and stick to the facts.
SCENARIO 2;
We actually get a definitive answer from someone in authority.
SCENARIO 3;
We stop talking [zb].
One tires of your bickering old bean. 
Scotchbaz:
SCENARIO 2;
We actually get a definitive answer from someone in authority.
OK. here it is -
geebee45
From page 3 in this thread:
Must admit to getting totally lost trying to follow the different answers to the question. Hopefully this will clarify the situation;Absolutely nothing wrong with having 7 ‘charts’ for 6 ‘days.’ A couple of things we have to make clear;
we are talking about a journey run under the EU rules contained in Council Regulation (EC) 561/2006. Between each ‘daily driving period’ there is a ‘daily rest period’ which will be at least 11 hours, or where allowed 9 hours. The total driving in the fixed week (00:00 Monday to 24:00 the following Sunday) does not exceed 56 hours. The total of work & driving in the fixed week cannot exceed 60 hours. Between the end of the weekly rest and the start of the next weekly rest there may be a maximum of six 24 hour periods (144 hours) or put it another way; if you end a weekly rest at 06:00 Wednesday you must start your next weekly rest no later than 06:00 on Tuesday the following week.This pattern of having more cards than days is typical of short shifts with not very much driving in them, used to see it with some market traders.
someone in authority -
From this thread geebee45:
I’m going all three days, drop by the VOSA stand, I don’t bite - often
@Rog; If you belive that will suffice a enforcement officer
over the water; please come and try it out ,of course loaded with a JIT delivery,Sorry but as i posted else before lets see
a answer with contact no, 24/7 and also some EU paragraph no,s, also in at least two other languages ,even then you will get problems, from some one,WHO WILL NOT EXCEPT
the answer, and you are then delayed while this is all sorted out,
Oh go on, I said to myself, this thread has been too quiet…
“ROG”, I’d like to draw your attention to Regulation (EC) No 561/2006 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 15 March 2006, page six, Chapter II, Article 8 and I quote, “1. A driver shall take daily and weekly rest periods. 2. Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall have taken a new daily rest period.” and I would like to draw your attention to the end of paragraph 6 which states, “A weekly rest period shall start no later than at the end of six 24-hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest period”
It surely can’t get much clearer than this, therefore I can deduce that, a; Your expert at VOSA is a thick [zb]. b; If you work as you’ve suggested you are indeed breaking the law. c; As usual I am vindicated in regards to the original question (not one of hypothesis), in that to work a seventh card would be illegal.
It’s lovely and sunny here today, so I’m off to the beach to top up my tan, have a beer and letch at people… 
Again, same assumption made - that both the wordings of ‘24-hour period’ refer to each other to which they do not - each must be taken in it’s own context in each of the seperate regulations.
ROG:
Again, same assumption made - that both the wordings of ‘24-hour period’ refer to each other to which they do not - each must be taken in it’s own context in each of the seperate regulations.
Dont be so damned dense, it’s in black and white, it’s the law, it must be obeyed, there is no grey area, it is all contained within Chapter II, Article 8 of 561/2006. 
I am not assuming owt, you are.
What seperate regulations It’s all under the same heading in the same regulation
Why bother ROG !
This question was answered several pages ago
tachograph:
Why bother ROG !
This question was answered several pages ago
I know but it might help some if I point out the way of thinking about them and the errors that I’ve made (and sometimes still do )
The best way to do this is to do EACH seperate regulation on it’s own without thinking about the other.
Doing it that way WILL conform to each if starting a new daily period more than 6 times in one week.
Taking each in turn is how the regulations should be done - a mistake I’ve done in the past is trying to do more than one at a time and getting confused or misinterpretting them
tachograph:
Why bother ROG !
This question was answered several pages ago
Which part of; black and white/same chapter/same article/same regulation, don’t you get
Jeez, you pair are saying too much, too loudly and substantiating nothing.
I wish I was clever like you brian…