My work says I committed a tacho offence last week because I went almost 7hrs without a half hr break even though I had a 15mins break 2hrs after my start time. What can I say to them to prove there is no offense committed?
Made sticky by dd.
pavaroti:
My work says I committed a tacho offence last week because I went almost 7hrs without a half hr break even though I had a 15mins break 2hrs after my start time. What can I say to them to prove there is no offense committed?
Presumably:
- At no point during the shift did you work more than 6 hours without a 15 minute break ?
- You had the correct amount of break for the entire shift ?
If this is correct then to point out the folly of your employers ways direct them to this link
Point out to them that nowhere does it say that you should have a 30 minute break before exceeding 6 hours working time, all it says is that you must have a break, as the shortest break that can count for the RT(WT)R is 15 minutes it’s assumed that you must have a 15 minute break at or before 6 hours working time.
Sections 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3 should be read in isolation from one-another so the only sections that affect the 6 hour rule is section 7.1 and section 7.4
Breaks
7.–
(1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.(2) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds six hours but does not exceed nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 30 minutes and interrupting that time.
(3) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 45 minutes and interrupting that period.
(4) Each break may be made up of separate periods of not less than 15 minutes each…
(5) An employer shall take all reasonable steps, in keeping with the need to protect the health and safety of the mobile worker, to ensure that the limits specified above are complied with in the case of each mobile worker employed by him.
pavaroti:
My work says I committed a tacho offence last week because I went almost 7hrs without a half hr break even though I had a 15mins break 2hrs after my start time. What can I say to them to prove there is no offense committed?
Do a print out and show them the 15 min break then show them the law on RTD breaks
legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005 … ion/7/made
Breaks
(1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
(2) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds six hours but does not exceed nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 30 minutes and interrupting that time.
(3) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 45 minutes and interrupting that period.
(4) Each break may be made up of separate periods of not less than 15 minutes each…
Rules (1) & (4) refer to the breaks for the 6 hour working time
Rules (2) OR (4) refer to the total of breaks required in a shift for working time
SNAP !! 
Thanks guys. I know this one’s been done to death on here which is how I knew I was right but awkward trying to explain it to those who should know better.
Even my dcpc trainer employed by my company told everybody they need a 30 min break before 6hrs.
A lot of companies request you take a 30 minute WTD break before 6 hours work even though the minimum requirement is 15 mins
pavaroti:
Thanks guys. I know this one’s been done to death on here which is how I knew I was right but awkward trying to explain it to those who should know better.
Even my dcpc trainer employed by my company told everybody they need a 30 min break before 6hrs.
As dar has said some companies seem to want you to do this even though it isn’t a legal requirement. If that’s the case and you’re hourly paid then just lap up the extra 15 minutes each day. It might not seem like much but it’ll add up to over 500quid by the end of the year… If you’re on a salary it’s a bit of a nuisance though.
Paul
Show them this thread, 10th post down, from nick2008 which contains a copy of an email he received in reply to this situation from the Department for Transport confirming that you only require a 15 minute break before exceeding 6 hours work.
You could also then suggest to the DCPC trainer that he might either seek alternative employment or more training for the position he currently holds as his depth of knowledge is not sufficient for him to carry out his role properly. If he’s getting something as basic as this wrong imagine the mess he is making of the slightly more complicated stuff. 
Coffeeholic:
Show them this thread, 10th post down, from nick2008 which contains a copy of an email he received in reply to this situation from the Department for Transport confirming that you only require a 15 minute break before exceeding 6 hours work.
Good find, I’d forgotten about that post
Showed my tm this thread and links tried to explain but his answer was “if I get a pull by a vosa man with his kind of thinking, I’m gonna get a £60 fine.” 
repton:
pavaroti:
Thanks guys. I know this one’s been done to death on here which is how I knew I was right but awkward trying to explain it to those who should know better.
Even my dcpc trainer employed by my company told everybody they need a 30 min break before 6hrs.As dar has said some companies seem to want you to do this even though it isn’t a legal requirement. If that’s the case and you’re hourly paid then just lap up the extra 15 minutes each day. It might not seem like much but it’ll add up to over 500quid by the end of the year… If you’re on a salary it’s a bit of a nuisance though.
Paul
My firms pretty relaxed when it comes to rules and regs. First time ever that they’ve checked tacko’s apparently.
Trip money alas so it’s flat to the mat.
Coffeeholic:
Show them this thread, 10th post down, from nick2008 which contains a copy of an email he received in reply to this situation from the Department for Transport confirming that you only require a 15 minute break before exceeding 6 hours work.You could also then suggest to the DCPC trainer that he might either seek alternative employment or more training for the position he currently holds as his depth of knowledge is not sufficient for him to carry out his role properly. If he’s getting something as basic as this wrong imagine the mess he is making of the slightly more complicated stuff.
I did speak to the dcpc trainer (after the class so as not to prolong it for everyone else) he said “it’s to awkward explaining to folk to take a 15 min break before 5hrs 59mins work.”
This “6hr” thing should be sticky’d as it comes up every other week.
pavaroti:
Coffeeholic:
Show them this thread, 10th post down, from nick2008 which contains a copy of an email he received in reply to this situation from the Department for Transport confirming that you only require a 15 minute break before exceeding 6 hours work.You could also then suggest to the DCPC trainer that he might either seek alternative employment or more training for the position he currently holds as his depth of knowledge is not sufficient for him to carry out his role properly. If he’s getting something as basic as this wrong imagine the mess he is making of the slightly more complicated stuff.
I did speak to the dcpc trainer (after the class so as not to prolong it for everyone else) he said “it’s to awkward explaining to folk to take a 15 min break before 5hrs 59mins work.”
Then he shouldn’t bother explaining to everyone to have a 15 minute break before 5 hours 59 minutes, he should explain to have a 15 minute break before going over 6 hours
Rob K:
This “6hr” thing should be sticky’d as it comes up every other week.
Agreed Rob, it does come up quite often so I’ve just stickied it.
Good show Dave. 
Coffeeholic:
Show them this thread, 10th post down, from nick2008 which contains a copy of an email he received in reply to this situation from the Department for Transport confirming that you only require a 15 minute break before exceeding 6 hours work.
nick2008:
Unless your working shift is 9 hrs or under the only requierment is to take 15min at 6hrs then the other 15min befor the end of your shift and not befor you start your daily rest
The following is a copy of the E-mails sent and recived from Steve Oliver DftDear Mr
Thank you for your further email of 29 October regarding breaks under the Working Time Directive for mobile workers.
Yes, the example given in your email is correct. The driver has not done enough actual driving to qualify for a break under the EU rules. But the 6 hours of total work means a break must be taken (of at least 15 minutes) for the purposes of the Working Time rules. As he will be working for a total of 9 hours then 30 minutes of total breaks must be taken.
Yours Sincerely
Steve Oliver
Policy Advisor
Freight and Logistics DivisionDepartment for Transport
Zone 2/14 Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London SW1P 4DRTel: 020 7944 2756
Fax: 020 7944 2928
From: [mailto:@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: 29 October 2008 02:21
To: Steve Oliver
Subject: RE: Working Time DirectiveDear Steve
Thank you for your reply of Tue, 28 Oct 2008The only point I am Looking at is that the web site shows in the Mobile Worker A is doing other work and driving is not being shown so to make myself 100% clear is the following example correct under this regulation
1hr other work
2hrs driving
3 hrs other work
1/4 break (rest)
2hrs driving
1/4 rest
1hr other work
End of dutyThank you for your time
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:10:48 +0000
From: Steve.Oliver@dft.gsi.gov.uk
To: @hotmail.co.uk
Subject: re: Working Time DirectiveDear Mr
Thank you for your email of 27 September to the Department for Transport regarding the guidance for Working Time.
Your understanding of the break requirements is not entirely correct. It is not the case that you have to take 30 minutes break immediately after 6 hours work. You must take a 15 minute break (as a break is required after 6 hours work and all breaks must be at least 15 minutes in length).
If you are going to be working between 6 and 9 hours then you must take a total of 30 minutes break. The second 15 minute break could be taken later on, and does not have to be taken straight away.
I hope that clarifies things for you, but let me know if you have any more questions.
Yours Sincerely
Steve Oliver
Policy Advisor
Freight and Logistics DivisionDepartment for Transport
Zone 2/14 Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London SW1P 4DRTel: 020 7944 2756
Fax: 020 7944 2928From the main man that was
You all think its 15 minutes but its not its 30 minutes, the 15 minute is a option not a requirement.
If you read the regs it says if you work 6 to 9 hours 30 minutes is required and if your boss requires you to have a 30 minute break then so be it.
at the last place I worked for a lot of driver were taking 15 minutes but forgetting the other 15 minutes, the tm of the entire firm sent a memo that all staff will have to have 30 minutes on or before 6 hours.
And why would you take any noticeof vosa there do not police it or check it but, and this is the important thing, your employer as to follow it, so if there require you to have 30 minutes then take it.
Most companys have software to monitor RTD and the can put 30 minutes as the break required at six hours, after all there paid for it.
delboytwo:
You all think its 15 minutes but its not its 30 minutes, the 15 minute is a option not a requirement.If you read the regs it says if you work 6 to 9 hours 30 minutes is required
SIGH
Steve Oliver, *DEPARTMENT FOR TRANSPORT:
Your understanding of the break requirements is not entirely correct. It is not the case that you have to take 30 minutes break immediately after 6 hours work. You must take a 15 minute break (as a break is required after 6 hours work and all breaks must be at least 15 minutes in length).If you are going to be working between 6 and 9 hours then you must take a total of 30 minutes break. The second 15 minute break could be taken later on, and does not have to be taken straight away.
I hope that clarifies things for you
Please, learn to read delboy.
6hrs work, take 15 mins break. Another 3hrs work done, take another 15 mins break. = perfectly legal.
delboytwo:
You all think its 15 minutes but its not its 30 minutes, the 15 minute is a option not a requirement.If you read the regs it says if you work 6 to 9 hours 30 minutes is required and if your boss requires you to have a 30 minute break then so be it.
The regulations require a break of at-least 15 minutes to be taken before going over 6 hours working time.
I don’t think anyone’s disputing that company policy can require a 30 minute break to be taken, company policy can require any amount of break, but that’s company policy not law, the legal minimum break taken before exceeding 6 hours working time is 15 minutes.