Six-speed constant mesh ‘boxes of the ‘60s and ‘70s.
I’d be interested to hear some opinions and info on these. Four in particular I find interesting as they were all around at about the same time, allowing for overlapping eras; and it is the constant-mesh version of these ‘boxes I want to hear about. Apart from a Guy yard shunter with a TET I’ve not used any of them on the road (edit to say I did use the 12-sp version of the ZF in Mercs).
How did they compare? I do appreciate that they were generally matched to suitable engines, so like the later Fullers, they will have varied considerably according to what engine they were matched to and how well they were installed by the manufacturer. I’d value your imput here Dennis, as you’ve probably run all four of them!
Here are the four. You may think of others worthy of this thread.
The TET (Thornycroft designed) gearbox developed by AEC over many years
The David Brown gearbox
The ZF AK (?) gearbox
The Fuller RT ? Wasn’t there a Fuller Roadranger 6-sp box?
I only drove one vehicle with a six speed box, a ZF in the Sed-Ak 300 we had at Tilcon and that was only to take it for test. A slow change is all I remember compared to the Fodens. We did have one early Sed-Ak 400 with a six speed David Brown fitted but that was pretty hopeless and went back under warranty to have the eight speed range change installed which was much better. There were some DB six speeders in the quarry dumpers but they split their casings reguarly.
The ZF AK six-speed gearboxes were fitted on many Berliet Models, usually with a splitter giving 12 speeds in all. I did drive several of them, but they were all at the end of their lives (20 years at least), and certainly showed many signs of wear. I was told that, when new, double pedalling wasn’t necessary to shift gears but, on mine, it was at least to shift down.
Here’s one of them, a 1975 GBH 260. Nevertheless, one could very easily, with a good ear, shift gears up and down without using the clutch pedal. This one was shipped to Nigeria for a second life in the 2000s, together with the one below which dated from 1972.
Froggy55:
The ZF AK six-speed gearboxes were fitted on many Berliet Models, usually with a splitter giving 12 speeds in all. I did drive several of them, but they were all at the end of their lives (20 years at least), and certainly showed many signs of wear. I was told that, when new, double pedalling wasn’t necessary to shift gears but, on mine, it was at least to shift down.
2
0Here’s one of them, a 1975 GBH 260. Nevertheless, one could very easily, with a good ear, shift gears up and down without using the clutch pedal. This one was shipped to Nigeria for a second life in the 2000s, together with the one below which dated from 1972.
1
Thanks Froggy. Ah yes! I’d forgotten that the ZF AK was the basis for the 12-speed using a splitter. I used to drive Merc 1626s with that 'box, which were installed upside-down on a RHD unit so that the shift pattern was back-to-front. You had to double-declutch those to down-shift.
My 71 atkinson had a 6 speed zf , with a 205 ■■■■■■■■ worked ok but not enough gears for 32t , bloody bolts holding it in kept shearing though so i had a supply of replacement bolts and a cranked spanner with me at all times. And she still exists.
I had an a series erf with the classic 6 speed plus splitter david brown , after roadrangers it was painfully slow, defo not my favourite.
My dads aec mercury tractor unit had a 6 speed , that seemed a pretty good box, but i only got to drive it for shunting, bit too young at the time
Tony
I had this Atki in 1976, (my first proper job) it was only about 18mths old, there were scania and volvos etc about but most firms still had British lorries. I remember driving this all over the country without any gearbox problems, this Borderer was bog standard, DB six speed, ■■■■■■■■ 220, Armstrong steering but I loved it, honestly cant remember what the heater or the wipers or the brakes for that matter were like I loved it and the gearbox was good enough for the time, I think the only better thing about fuller g/boxes was the fact you only needed the clutch for starting and stopping.
Steve.
pollystag:
I had this Atki in 1976, (my first proper job) it was only about 18mths old, there were scania and volvos etc about but most firms still had British lorries. I remember driving this all over the country without any gearbox problems, this Borderer was bog standard, DB six speed, ■■■■■■■■ 220, Armstrong steering but I loved it, honestly cant remember what the heater or the wipers or the brakes for that matter were like I loved it and the gearbox was good enough for the time, I think the only better thing about fuller g/boxes was the fact you only needed the clutch for starting and stopping.
Steve.
0
This is a great topic , i cant contribute because i never drove a 6 speed constant mesh ( too young ) but my dad had a brand new Atki , J reg i think, with a 180 Gardner and a DB6 , he had a MKV MM8 with a Dyson trailer before that with a 9.6 and a 5 speed box and he also had a Mandator which was around 10 years old when he got it with a 6 speed box , in fact he had 2 , 1 was ex H. Baker and 1 ex Amoco. I remember him saying he liked the 6 speed AEC box , i dont think he was too keen on the Atki though. It`s going to be interesting to see other comments from people who drove them
pollystag:
I had this Atki in 1976, (my first proper job) it was only about 18mths old, there were scania and volvos etc about but most firms still had British lorries. I remember driving this all over the country without any gearbox problems, this Borderer was bog standard, DB six speed, ■■■■■■■■ 220, Armstrong steering but I loved it, honestly cant remember what the heater or the wipers or the brakes for that matter were like I loved it and the gearbox was good enough for the time, I think the only better thing about fuller g/boxes was the fact you only needed the clutch for starting and stopping.
Steve.
0
This is a great topic , i cant contribute because i never drove a 6 speed constant mesh ( too young ) but my dad had a brand new Atki , J reg i think, with a 180 Gardner and a DB6 , he had a MKV MM8 with a Dyson trailer before that with a 9.6 and a 5 speed box and he also had a Mandator which was around 10 years old when he got it with a 6 speed box , in fact he had 2 , 1 was ex H. Baker and 1 ex Amoco. I remember him saying he liked the 6 speed AEC box , i dont think he was too keen on the Atki though. It`s going to be interesting to see other comments from people who drove them
Yes, the AEC 'box was developed from the Thornycroft (TET) 5 and 6-sp 'boxes and was generally very well liked by drivers who have posted on these threads over the years.
pollystag:
I had this Atki in 1976, (my first proper job) it was only about 18mths old, there were scania and volvos etc about but most firms still had British lorries. I remember driving this all over the country without any gearbox problems, this Borderer was bog standard, DB six speed, ■■■■■■■■ 220, Armstrong steering but I loved it, honestly cant remember what the heater or the wipers or the brakes for that matter were like I loved it and the gearbox was good enough for the time, I think the only better thing about fuller g/boxes was the fact you only needed the clutch for starting and stopping.
Steve.
0
I do remember reading on these threads on more than a few occasions that the David Brown 'box was very precise so you had to be spot on with the revs when down-shifting.
pollystag:
I had this Atki in 1976, (my first proper job) it was only about 18mths old, there were scania and volvos etc about but most firms still had British lorries. I remember driving this all over the country without any gearbox problems, this Borderer was bog standard, DB six speed, ■■■■■■■■ 220, Armstrong steering but I loved it, honestly cant remember what the heater or the wipers or the brakes for that matter were like I loved it and the gearbox was good enough for the time, I think the only better thing about fuller g/boxes was the fact you only needed the clutch for starting and stopping.
Steve.
0
I do remember reading on these threads on more than a few occasions that the David Brown 'box was very precise so you had to be spot on with the revs when down-shifting.
That’s exactly how the DB eight speeder in our Sed-Ak 400 was, no ‘give and take’ like you had with the Fuller 'box.
The D B6 must have been one of the most reliable boxes made, I never heard of one breaking. Had numerous but all in ERFs, very frustrating with the Gardner no such thing as a fast up shift resulting in going up inclines in too low a gear but unable to change up. That of course was the engine’s fault. Had one with a ■■■■■■■ in n she was worse,moved onto 9sp with same engine n away we went. Leyland 6 sp no problems, nice n light n fast with it. Cheers coomsey
ERF-NGC-European:
It’s ages since I opened a new thread!
Six-speed constant mesh ‘boxes of the ‘60s and ‘70s.
I’d be interested to hear some opinions and info on these. Four in particular I find interesting as they were all around at about the same time, allowing for overlapping eras; and it is the constant-mesh version of these ‘boxes I want to hear about. Apart from a Guy yard shunter with a TET I’ve not used any of them on the road (edit to say I did use the 12-sp version of the ZF in Mercs).
How did they compare? I do appreciate that they were generally matched to suitable engines, so like the later Fullers, they will have varied considerably according to what engine they were matched to and how well they were installed by the manufacturer. I’d value your imput here Dennis, as you’ve probably run all four of them!
Here are the four. You may think of others worthy of this thread.
The TET (Thornycroft designed) gearbox developed by AEC over many years
The David Brown gearbox
The ZF AK (?) gearbox
The Fuller RT ? Wasn’t there a Fuller Roadranger 6-sp box?
I have just noticed and not wishing to be presumptive can I take it that the “Dennis” you mention was “Javelin” and not “Bewick”
I used to drive an ERF with a Gardner 150 & a 6 speed DB box fitted, Painfully slow gear shifts & really struggled on the smallest of inclines, it is the only vehicle I have drove that with the throttle fully down going downhill it would keep the speed down.
ERF-NGC-European:
It’s ages since I opened a new thread!
Six-speed constant mesh ‘boxes of the ‘60s and ‘70s.
I’d be interested to hear some opinions and info on these. Four in particular I find interesting as they were all around at about the same time, allowing for overlapping eras; and it is the constant-mesh version of these ‘boxes I want to hear about. Apart from a Guy yard shunter with a TET I’ve not used any of them on the road (edit to say I did use the 12-sp version of the ZF in Mercs).
How did they compare? I do appreciate that they were generally matched to suitable engines, so like the later Fullers, they will have varied considerably according to what engine they were matched to and how well they were installed by the manufacturer. I’d value your imput here Dennis, as you’ve probably run all four of them!
Here are the four. You may think of others worthy of this thread.
The TET (Thornycroft designed) gearbox developed by AEC over many years
The David Brown gearbox
The ZF AK (?) gearbox
The Fuller RT ? Wasn’t there a Fuller Roadranger 6-sp box?
I have just noticed and not wishing to be presumptive can I take it that the “Dennis” you mention was “Javelin” and not “Bewick”
Bewick of course! If you didn’t run all four of them, I expect you used them as a driver. And what 'box did your Brady Octopus have?
I had a Maggie Deutz (230?) demonstrator which I took to Jeddah and back.
6 speed ZF with a splitter, I would describe it as extra or ZB horrible and whist I was happy with the build quality and all other aspects of the truck,
the gearbox made it a no-no for a follow on purchase which was a pity as the dealers were next door and spot on in all other repects,
coomsey:
The D B6 must have been one of the most reliable boxes made, I never heard of one breaking. Had numerous but all in ERFs, very frustrating with the Gardner no such thing as a fast up shift resulting in going up inclines in too low a gear but unable to change up. That of course was the engine’s fault. Had one with a ■■■■■■■ in n she was worse,moved onto 9sp with same engine n away we went. Leyland 6 sp no problems, nice n light n fast with it. Cheers coomsey
Informative post! Apart from its flexibility, one of the reasons you could change up when going uphill with a 9-sp Fuller was the clutch-brake / inertia-brake; which begs the question: did any of these 6-sp 'boxes have a clutch-brake? Was the Leyland 6-sp out of the TET stable or Leyland’s own? You’ve now introduced a fifth 'box in this category, which I’d overlooked!
dave docwra:
I used to drive an ERF with a Gardner 150 & a 6 speed DB box fitted, Painfully slow gear shifts & really struggled on the smallest of inclines, it is the only vehicle I have drove that with the throttle fully down going downhill it would keep the speed down.
Interesting comments on the DB 'box. It seems it was very exacting but indestructible!
whisperingsmith:
I had a Maggie Deutz (230?) demonstrator which I took to Jeddah and back.
6 speed ZF with a splitter, I would describe it as extra or ZB horrible and whist I was happy with the build quality and all other aspects of the truck,
the gearbox made it a no-no for a follow on purchase which was a pity as the dealers were next door and spot on in all other repects,
That’s interesting. I must say, I was no fan of those 12-speed ZFs or any other ZFs until DAF started to install them really snugly in the CF and XF range years later.
The Synchro ZF range change in the LPS Merc was one of the best boxes ever - but destroyed when they went for the push across when fitted to NG Mercs -rather than a simple switch on the gear lever
whisperingsmith:
The Synchro ZF range change in the LPS Merc was one of the best boxes ever - but destroyed when they went for the push across when fitted to NG Mercs -rather than a simple switch on the gear lever
Never drove the LPS but I get what you’re saying. That Merc installation of the slap-across ZF Eco-split synchro was the clumsiest going at the time, making for quite a stressful day’s drive. MAN wasn’t much better. DAF made a better job of it.
If you didn’t run all four of them, I expect you used them as a driver.