Well cleared up the “Dennis” bit then 
Yes I ran all those gearboxes over the years with the Thorneycroft derived 6 spd boxes in the Big J’s giving trouble free operation ! The only ZF 6 speed box we had experience of was that in a MK1 ( ex Oswald of Ayr ) which was “bomb proof” and also trouble free but was only able to driven by bona fide drivers otherwise it could break the wrist of the inexperienced ! As regards the DB 6:600 box well this was defo a love /hate relationship as it was fine and trouble free behind our 6LXB engined Seddon 32/4’s and the 30:5 Sed Atks we ran but an absolute F------ disaster behind the 220 ■■■■■■■ Borderers particularly those we ran on double shift !! IMHO once the box was fitted behind anything more powerful than the 180LXB it wasn’t fit for purpose ! But as regards the Fuller/ Eaton boxes well against the perceived industry resistance at the time in the early 70’s by the old “dyed in the wool” Operators that "these new fangled " Fuller boxes were inferior to DB’s and would never catch on ------- well that misplaced opinion was soon disabused !!! Basically the DB boxes in both 6 spd and 8 speed were out performed by the Fuller/Eaton in short order ! and the heavier Fuller that appeared in both the Atkinson Borderer, the ERF 8LXB and the later SED/ATK and ERF B & C Series proved to be absolutely bomb proof and I can vouch for this as we ran a good number of the Fuller/Eaton 610/609 and 95909 Boxes which were absolutely trouble free during the time we operated UK built units.
As far as I was aware ( being 19 and 20 at the time 
) the Octopus had the Leyland built 6 speed O/D box and at the slightest mention of a grade you dropped it into 5th . It defo wasn’t the little Albion box as it would never have stood the torque of the weights that were sometimes hauled !
Other Operators on the site will no doubt have other opposite opinions to the above but that is my take on the experience of running the afore mentioned gear boxes ! Cheers Bewick. 
I am not a driver but remember Dad’s 1969 Mercury with a 6 speed and that seemed very effective. At 16 tons gross with 150bhp equates to over 9bhp/tons which, I would guess, was quite good back in the day. The Marshall had the same engine and gear box AFAIK and at 24 tons would be a different proposition.
There are a few videos on YouTube with 60s/70s trucks with underpowered engines and a 6 speed. Looks hard work to me.
Bewick:
Well cleared up the “Dennis” bit then
Yes I ran all those gearboxes over the years with the Thorneycroft derived 6 spd boxes in the Big J’s giving trouble free operation ! The only ZF 6 speed box we had experience of was that in a MK1 ( ex Oswald of Ayr ) which was “bomb proof” and also trouble free but was only able to driven by bona fide drivers otherwise it could break the wrist of the inexperienced ! As regards the DB 6:600 box well this was defo a love /hate relationship as it was fine and trouble free behind our 6LXB engined Seddon 32/4’s and the 30:5 Sed Atks we ran but an absolute F------ disaster behind the 220 ■■■■■■■ Borderers particularly those we ran on double shift !! IMHO once the box was fitted behind anything more powerful than the 180LXB it wasn’t fit for purpose ! But as regards the Fuller/ Eaton boxes well against the perceived industry resistance at the time in the early 70’s by the old “dyed in the wool” Operators that "these new fangled " Fuller boxes were inferior to DB’s and would never catch on ------- well that misplaced opinion was soon disabused !!! Basically the DB boxes in both 6 spd and 8 speed were out performed by the Fuller/Eaton in short order ! and the heavier Fuller that appeared in both the Atkinson Borderer, the ERF 8LXB and the later SED/ATK and ERF B & C Series proved to be absolutely bomb proof and I can vouch for this as we ran a good number of the Fuller/Eaton 610/609 and 95909 Boxes which were absolutely trouble free during the time we operated UK built units.
As far as I was aware ( being 19 and 20 at the time
Other Operators on the site will no doubt have other opposite opinions to the above but that is my take on the experience of running the afore mentioned gear boxes ! Cheers Bewick.
Thanks Dennis. I knew you’d come up trumps! I suspect that your allusion to 'boxes not being up to increased torque-loads may turn out to be an important element in this topic; as these older six-speed constant-mesh 'boxes were still in existence at the start of the steep increase in power, torque and weigh loads into the mid-'70s and beyond. And certainly the emergence of the 10-sp and 9-sp Fuller was a big game-changer (the 9-sp Fuller remains to this day my favourite 'box!).
ERF-NGC-European:
dave docwra:
I used to drive an ERF with a Gardner 150 & a 6 speed DB box fitted, Painfully slow gear shifts & really struggled on the smallest of inclines, it is the only vehicle I have drove that with the throttle fully down going downhill it would keep the speed down.Interesting comments on the DB 'box. It seems it was very exacting but indestructible!
Not in a quarry dumper it wasn’t! 
Ours did have a clutch brake but I doubt that they were ever used, I drove 9 and 13 speed Fullers for twenty years but never bothered with one except to get into cog from a standstill.
Pete.
whisperingsmith:
I had a Maggie Deutz (230?) demonstrator which I took to Jeddah and back.6 speed ZF with a splitter, I would describe it as extra or ZB horrible and whist I was happy with the build quality and all other aspects of the truck,
the gearbox made it a no-no for a follow on purchase which was a pity as the dealers were next door and spot on in all other repects,
Sounds like that was probably a Maggie Deutz 232 . I drove lots of different lorries back then and remember those being the most difficult , totally unforgiving !
Scammell had a constant 6 speed mesh box through a gate system in the Trunker. The problem with that box is you cant miss gear’s and have to go up and
down the box using every gear.
DEANB:
Scammell had a constant 6 speed mesh box through a gate system in the Trunker. The problem with that box is you cant miss gear’s and have to go up and
down the box using every gear.
Yes, thanks for reminding us of yet another 6-sp constant mesh 'box contemporary with the others. That Scammell gate-change 'box was also installed in the Highwayman but the slightly later Handyman came with the 6-sp TET 'box. Like you say, with a gate-change your approach to roundabouts would need to be very systematic!
It’s intriguing to see what 'box went with what make and model within the BL empire, as it had inherited basically two good 6-sp constant boxes: the Leyland and the TET AEC/Thornycroft 'box. From what I can gather, the Leyland one generally went into Leyland-badged products and the TET was available for the others (AEC, Guy, Scammell etc). For eg if you had a Leyland 0.680 lump in a Leyland Beaver it would have the Leyland box; but if your 0.680 was in a Scammell you got the TET. There were patterns too. Bewick once pointed out to me on here that Guy Big-Js fitted with 180 Gardners were given the TET 'box, so clearly it was also about good engine-gearbox matchings too.
ERF-NGC-European:
DEANB:
Scammell had a constant 6 speed mesh box through a gate system in the Trunker. The problem with that box is you cant miss gear’s and have to go up and
down the box using every gear.Yes, thanks for reminding us of yet another 6-sp constant mesh 'box contemporary with the others. That Scammell gate-change 'box was also installed in the Highwayman but the slightly later Handyman came with the 6-sp TET 'box. Like you say, with a gate-change your approach to roundabouts would need to be very systematic!
I still drive one, once a year I take this to Llandudno. “Systematic” I’ll remember that word when I’m changing down.
Don’t ask me why but pictures always go sideways (sorry)
I drove and repaired all of these, some more than others. From a driver’s and mechanic’s viewpoints I would rate them the same: top AEC, then David Brown, Fuller (range change not 6 six speed) and very definitely last ZF. A lot depended on the installation and the amount of abuse or care they had received. Like everything they all had their faults. ERF were head and shoulders above everyone else with their installation; some others were abysmal - the rear engine mountings do not belong on the gearbox and some manufacturers even today still haven’t got the ■■■■■■■ message. I have recently been introduced to the term “Professional Struggler” which so aptly describes what the manufacturers turned the life of a fitter into.
I was never really a fan of the Fuller and they certainly weren’t trouble free. I hated the chrome flat top gear knob it made the feeling of there being a long length of stiff rubber between the hand and the gearbox worse. The advantage of the box was its close ratios allowing faster changes, aided somewhat by the clutch brake. It however suffered from the same fault as the David Brown brake - contamination from over enthusiastic greasing of the release bearing. It had another trick up its sleeve, the lugs securing it to the input shaft broke off, which in those days meant gearbox removal to fix. Since the clutches of the period went out of adjustment quite quickly it often wasn’t working anyway, poor adjustment in the workshop didn’t help hence one reason for the lugs mentioned breaking off when the clutch brake disc(s) ended up trying to stop the weight of the complete vehicle. The range change interlock slug would seize in the side of the gearbox, and the control valve or its pipework caused issues, 5/32" nylon pipes with special expensive olives which were a swine to remove at times in the restricted space available - even better in an 8 wheeler. The main box was really quite good all the troubles being abuse related. The boxes which were difficult to change had burred teeth on the dog clucthes or gears. The same good opinion could not be said of the range change section. The synchro cone wore often because the springs weakened which was the cause of the loud noise on engagement. This led to the one of the three pins breaking and eventually no range change. Left long enough this chewed up the mainshaft output gear. Actually working on the boxes was fine really, it was just getting the things in and out that was a pain in the “hurry up you’re taking too long” atmosphere of a dealers workshop. Definitely not helped by the refusal to buy the manufacturer’s special tools to make the job easier. You didn’t need them strictly but it took longer without. The same attitude meant that the range change repair was expected to be done in situ: so much more difficult than with the box stood on its nose but a financial winner for the dealership who chraged for gearbox removal and replacement.
The ZF fortunately is a more distant memory, There was an AK680 and and AK690 and a smaller box as well. They were all a tricky box to handle as a driver. DAF seemed to make an absolute pig’s ear of installation, my lasting memory is of the well known saying about stirring a rice pudding - it was this combined with a box which required the timing to be down to a milli-second which made things so tricky. Oddly enough since they ■■■■■■ up every other box they fitted in the 200 and 400 range with the reverse gear pattern, the 300 with a ZF was a LOT easier to manage. All suffered IIRC with selector and detent issues and ZF seemed to manage to make the most complicated part of any gearbox even more so. Getting the things apart wasn’t easy either just about everything required a puller or a press and I have vague memories of uncaged needle roller bearings…but I may be mistaken.
The David Brown six speed 06 600 would IIRC have been right at the limit of its torque input capacity behind a ■■■■■■■ 220 and behind a Gardner there would be a lot of gearchanges and maximum torque input if running in hilly country. From a drivers aspect they were a delight in ERFs and Atkinsons, one finger on top of the knob and it was like a hot knife through butter, but you did need to get used to them, they could be unforgiving at first or if in a hurry. The main problem I recall was the casings which wore at the bearing bores. This seemed to be put down to the near constant full torque operation in the hills. The case split in half which made stripping it down so much easier than some rivals. It had a support bearing in the middle of the two shafts which required the gears etc to be pressed or pulled off. The tricky part was fitting the top half of the casing without trapping the mainshaft shims. Like all 'boxes it broke teeth of the shafts and it had a habit of breaking selector shafts which made the job more complicated than on some other makes, since the box had to be split. Seddon Atkinson really manged to ■■■■ this one up with their appalling installation. Not only was the patern reversed, but the previous light action was gone; replaced by the need for a vice-like grip and accompanying effort to move the poxy lever. They went one better and fitted a Lipe Rollway pull type Clutch (probably at the insistance of “sales and marketing”). This entailed a complicated set up procedure: involving much measuring and re-adjustement of the master and slave cylinders as well as the actual clutch itself with different sized measuring blocks, all vastly different from standard practice; to make it work . After that was done the clutch brake could be set up.
AEC or Thornycroft. There were two main six speed boxes the D197 and the D203 for Mercury/ Marshall in the case of the former and Mandator/ Mammoth Major the latter.
These I found a real pleasure to drive - except for one thing which most have probably forgotten : - that infernal buzzing from the gearlever all day long, caused by wear in the change speed box, remote- mounted on the side of the engine. It could be shimmed to tighten things up, but access was difficult to do the job. IIRC there was a similar issue with thee same noise from the David Brown boxes in ERFs and Atkinsons but not quite so bad. Having driven a coach with the smaller box in recent years it has once again reinforced the opinion about installation, abuse and wear in the linkage. With the gearbox half way down the chassis everything is exacerbated, difficulty in hearing an engine so far away makes timing more difficult and as a result over the years bad changes burr the dog clutches and gears, so making the timing more important. Both these boxes suffered from drivers starting off in third gear when empty, the bearings and particulalry the rear one took a dislike to this habit. A circlip locating 2nd gear bush broke quite often which allowed all the gears to move along the shaft, if lucky the box would be stuck in one gear; if unlucky you lost a tooth. The grubscrews holding the selector forks to the selector rail would quite often work loose, again resulting in only being able to select that gear. Early boxes with second gear running on a bush sometimes saw lubrication failure seizing the gear to the bush with similar consequences. However none of this was ever a problem to fix unless the damage ws severe. A hammer and a punch was about all that was needed to get either of these two gearboxes apart. The grubscrew issue could be dealt with beside the road. The 10 speed versions were similar but a very big box indeed to get in and out.
Since we have mentioned Magirus Deutz, that is top of my list for hates. An AK 690 with GV90 splitter in an 8 wheeler is a nightmare, the only sensible way to get the box out is to remove the engine first.
cav551:
I drove and repaired all of these, some more than others. From a driver’s and mechanic’s viewpoints I would rate them the same: top AEC, then David Brown, Fuller (range change not 6 six speed) and very definitely last ZF. A lot depended on the installation and the amount of abuse or care they had received. Like everything they all had their faults. ERF were head and shoulders above everyone else with their installation; some others were abysmal - the rear engine mountings do not belong on the gearbox and some manufacturers even today still haven’t got the [zb] message. I have recently been introduced to the term “Professional Struggler” which so aptly describes what the manufacturers turned the life of a fitter into.I was never really a fan of the Fuller and they certainly weren’t trouble free. I hated the chrome flat top gear knob it made the feeling of there being a long length of stiff rubber between the hand and the gearbox worse. The advantage of the box was its close ratios allowing faster changes, aided somewhat by the clutch brake. It however suffered from the same fault as the David Brown brake - contamination from over enthusiastic greasing of the release bearing. It had another trick up its sleeve, the lugs securing it to the input shaft broke off, which in those days meant gearbox removal to fix. Since the clutches of the period went out of adjustment quite quickly it often wasn’t working anyway, poor adjustment in the workshop didn’t help hence one reason for the lugs mentioned breaking off when the clutch brake disc(s) ended up trying to stop the weight of the complete vehicle. The range change interlock slug would seize in the side of the gearbox, and the control valve or its pipework caused issues, 5/32" nylon pipes with special expensive olives which were a swine to remove at times in the restricted space available - even better in an 8 wheeler. The main box was really quite good all the troubles being abuse related. The boxes which were difficult to change had burred teeth on the dog clucthes or gears. The same good opinion could not be said of the range change section. The synchro cone wore often because the springs weakened which was the cause of the loud noise on engagement. This led to the one of the three pins breaking and eventually no range change. Left long enough this chewed up the mainshaft output gear. Actually working on the boxes was fine really, it was just getting the things in and out that was a pain in the “hurry up you’re taking too long” atmosphere of a dealers workshop. Definitely not helped by the refusal to buy the manufacturer’s special tools to make the job easier. You didn’t need them strictly but it took longer without. The same attitude meant that the range change repair was expected to be done in situ: so much more difficult than with the box stood on its nose but a financial winner for the dealership who chraged for gearbox removal and replacement.
The ZF fortunately is a more distant memory, There was an AK680 and and AK690 and a smaller box as well. They were all a tricky box to handle as a driver. DAF seemed to make an absolute pig’s ear of installation, my lasting memory is of the well known saying about stirring a rice pudding - it was this combined with a box which required the timing to be down to a milli-second which made things so tricky. Oddly enough since they [zb] up every other box they fitted in the 200 and 400 range with the reverse gear pattern, the 300 with a ZF was a LOT easier to manage. All suffered IIRC with selector and detent issues and ZF seemed to manage to make the most complicated part of any gearbox even more so. Getting the things apart wasn’t easy either just about everything required a puller or a press and I have vague memories of uncaged needle roller bearings…but I may be mistaken.
The David Brown six speed 06 600 would IIRC have been right at the limit of its torque input capacity behind a ■■■■■■■ 220 and behind a Gardner there would be a lot of gearchanges and maximum torque input if running in hilly country. From a drivers aspect they were a delight in ERFs and Atkinsons, one finger on top of the knob and it was like a hot knife through butter, but you did need to get used to them, they could be unforgiving at first or if in a hurry. The main problem I recall was the casings which wore at the bearing bores. This seemed to be put down to the near constant full torque operation in the hills. The case split in half which made stripping it down so much easier than some rivals. It had a support bearing in the middle of the two shafts which required the gears etc to be pressed or pulled off. The tricky part was fitting the top half of the casing without trapping the mainshaft shims. Like all 'boxes it broke teeth of the shafts and it had a habit of breaking selector shafts which made the job more complicated than on some other makes, since the box had to be split. Seddon Atkinson really manged to [zb] this one up with their appalling installation. Not only was the patern reversed, but the previous light action was gone; replaced by the need for a vice-like grip and accompanying effort to move the poxy lever. They went one better and fitted a Lipe Rollway pull type Clutch (probably at the insistance of “sales and marketing”). This entailed a complicated set up procedure: involving much measuring and re-adjustement of the master and slave cylinders as well as the actual clutch itself with different sized measuring blocks, all vastly different from standard practice; to make it work . After that was done the clutch brake could be set up.
AEC or Thornycroft. There were two main six speed boxes the D197 and the D203 for Mercury/ Marshall in the case of the former and Mandator/ Mammoth Major the latter.
These I found a real pleasure to drive - except for one thing which most have probably forgotten : - that infernal buzzing from the gearlever all day long, caused by wear in the change speed box, remote- mounted on the side of the engine. It could be shimmed to tighten things up, but access was difficult to do the job. IIRC there was a similar issue with thee same noise from the David Brown boxes in ERFs and Atkinsons but not quite so bad. Having driven a coach with the smaller box in recent years it has once again reinforced the opinion about installation, abuse and wear in the linkage. With the gearbox half way down the chassis everything is exacerbated, difficulty in hearing an engine so far away makes timing more difficult and as a result over the years bad changes burr the dog clutches and gears, so making the timing more important. Both these boxes suffered from drivers starting off in third gear when empty, the bearings and particulalry the rear one took a dislike to this habit. A circlip locating 2nd gear bush broke quite often which allowed all the gears to move along the shaft, if lucky the box would be stuck in one gear; if unlucky you lost a tooth. The grubscrews holding the selector forks to the selector rail would quite often work loose, again resulting in only being able to select that gear. Early boxes with second gear running on a bush sometimes saw lubrication failure seizing the gear to the bush with similar consequences. However none of this was ever a problem to fix unless the damage ws severe. A hammer and a punch was about all that was needed to get either of these two gearboxes apart. The grubscrew issue could be dealt with beside the road. The 10 speed versions were similar but a very big box indeed to get in and out.Since we have mentioned Magirus Deutz, that is top of my list for hates. An AK 690 with GV90 splitter in an 8 wheeler is a nightmare, the only sensible way to get the box out is to remove the engine first.
Fantastic! Many thanks for sharing those insights with us. TNUK at its best.
I’ve just found another useful contribution to this thread. It was posted by ‘ERF’ who used to come on TN quite a bit, in answer to a query I had about the TET box in AECs. Here is what he said:
The basic 6-speed o/d gearbox available in the AV760 Mandator was the TET D203 with it’s 1-3/4" input shaft. This, at 615 lb-ft, had a design torque capacity very slightly higher than service torque capacity of the ONLY Fuller Roadranger in production in the UK in 1968, the RT and RTO610. Both were designed for use in service with engines developing up to 600lb-ft torque.
To fit the D203 to the V8 engine required an extended selector housing to allow the change rod to clear the RH cylinder bank. This modified gearbox was designated the D236 and it was fitted to all Mandator V8’s from the start of production until early in 1969.
When the higher output AV800/801 powered V8’s were produced, TET increased the torque capacity of the D236 by beefing up the front end bearings and fitting a 2" input shaft. This gearbox was the D250, and it was fitted to all subsequent V8’s that had the 6-speed gearbox option, including the AV740’s.
Higher capacity 6-speeds were already on the drawing board at TET in 1970, and some of these would go on to be used by Guy in the Big J, AEC/Leyland in the Marathon (behind the L12 engine) and by Scammell in the Routeman, Handyman and Trunker.
By 1976 the last version (to the best of my knowledge) of the old 6-speed was being produced, by this time Eaton had taken over at TET, and this gearbox (still with a 2" input shaft) featured needle roller bearings on the mainshaft gears (as opposed to the bronze bushes of the D236 and D250), higher torque capacity gears and taper roller bearings (as opposed to roller bearings) on the mainshaft and layshaft. This gearbox was the D273 and was a Scammell option right to the end of Routeman production.
Hey,
A bit offside Topic and nothing to see with 6 speeders, but maybe interesting for some MB freaks.
The first 16 speed ZF for MB was not an Ecosplit, but a 9 speed 4 over 4 and crauler of the V10 320hp push across, with a sticked on GV90.
Which gave a total of 18 speeds useable speeds, the two high craulers were blocked because of the push across.
Used in the last V10’s as an option and the new engine 280hp V8 OM422.
It was such worse box that MB offered a Fuller 9513, not to lose customers, but never mentioned in any brochure, only in the manual.
Eric,
Recalling my experiences of gearboxes and axles ( if axles can be included on the site) I can say with total honesty that the only gearboxes that caused us grief and corresponding down time were the DB 6:600 boxes behind the ■■■■■■■ 220’s I stated previously the fuller /Eaton boxes gave 99:99% faultless service with only the air change valve on the odd RTO610 sticking on occasions and the 6 speed boxes in the Big J’s gave trouble free service although for some reason Guy Motors sent us some elbows which replaced the filler plugs and gave the box a bit more oil capacity. And as regards axles well the only axle that gave us agg was the poxy Seddon Group axle when it was fitted to the 220 ■■■■■■■ and Sed Atk 8 LXB’s chassis as approx 70,000 miles was about all we could expect before they required HR’s rebuilding and on the intensive double shift operation this equated to about 6 months or usually less !! The DB 6:600 box and the Seddon axle gave faultless service behind the 180 LXB ! Cheers Bewick.
tiptop495:
Hey,A bit offside Topic and nothing to see with 6 speeders, but maybe interesting for some MB freaks.
The first 16 speed ZF for MB was not an Ecosplit, but a 9 speed 4 over 4 and crauler of the V10 320hp push across, with a sticked on GV90.
Which gave a total of 18 speeds useable speeds, the two high craulers were blocked because of the push across.
Used in the last V10’s as an option and the new engine 280hp V8 OM422.
It was such worse box that MB offered a Fuller 9513, not to lose customers, but never mentioned in any brochure, only in the manual.Eric,
Yes, you’re right! And I had forgotten about those ‘sleeve’ switches for actuating the range-change mechanism. They had those on the 1626s IIRC.
Fred Archer had an NG 1628 with a 13-sp Fuller in it. It had a breather pipe up the front of the cab for M/E work.
Off topic I realise but I can cocour with CAV that Fuller boxes were not bombproof, the range change synchro gave problems and the pto for the blower drive on our powder tankers was mounted on the rear of the box and they reguarly vibrated loose in service.
I think that our AEC Marshalls with the six speed 'box had issues as well, they were before my time at the quarry but the amount of AEC gearbox spares still on the shelves when I started there made me think that rebuilding them was a common thing. According to one of our fitters they could be almost rebuilt without removing the box from the chassis. Of course tipper work was much harder on transmissions than with trucks running on highways most of the time.
Pete.
Here is the DB 6 speed box out of my current Borderer restoration project it has Dennis’s worst spec ■■■■■■■ NH22O, DB box and SA group axle, but at moment don’t think it will be on day night work all year round!!
jshepguis:
Here is the DB 6 speed box out of my current Borderer restoration project it has Dennis’s worst spec ■■■■■■■ NH22O, DB box and SA group axle, but at moment don’t think it will be on day night work all year round!!0
Seen that site on the shop floor too many times 
but IIRC we never had one out of the 6LXB chassis 
Cheers Dennis.
When I started my 3 years at the Wigan depot of Robert Baillie & Co Ltd of Portsmouth,
in early 1970, all of the Atkinsons except one, had the David Brown 6 speed gearbox with
5 and 6 back to front. The only time I needed to use the clutch when driving one of these
Atkinsons was when setting off from a start, and when coming to a halt at traffic lights, or
in slow moving traffic. A couple of drivers that I knew at the time thought that I was talking
a load of rubbish, and one of them tried it and couldnt get the hang of it. I went through
it both up and down the box as smooth as silk. Toward the end of 1970, the company got
2 brand new Atkinsons with 220 ■■■■■■■ engines, XOT 573J and XOT 574J, they both had
a straight 6 ZF gearbox, in order to achieve not using the clutch as with the David Brown
gearbox, your had to do the clutchless gear changes much quicker. In the days before the
Northern section of the M6 was completed, from the top side of Carnforth, it was back to
the A6 for about 40 miles which include the steep climb Northbound up Shap Fell and back
on to the M6 at a temporary link to the motorway just past the top of Shap. I remember
in those days it was quite common on a good down hill stretch to throw the gearstick into
neutral and let the lorry romp up to about 60 MPH, the Mk 1 Atkinsons were flat out at 48 MPH.
Dennis will be familiar with the area that I have mentioned above.
Cheers, Ray Smyth.
ERF-NGC-European:
tiptop495:
Hey,A bit offside Topic and nothing to see with 6 speeders, but maybe interesting for some MB freaks.
The first 16 speed ZF for MB was not an Ecosplit, but a 9 speed 4 over 4 and crauler of the V10 320hp push across, with a sticked on GV90.
Which gave a total of 18 speeds useable speeds, the two high craulers were blocked because of the push across.
Used in the last V10’s as an option and the new engine 280hp V8 OM422.
It was such worse box that MB offered a Fuller 9513, not to lose customers, but never mentioned in any brochure, only in the manual.Eric,
Yes, you’re right! And I had forgotten about those ‘sleeve’ switches for actuating the range-change mechanism. They had those on the 1626s IIRC.
Fred Archer had an NG 1628 with a 13-sp Fuller in it. It had a breather pipe up the front of the cab for M/E work.
the 1st 1619 mercs we had on ferrymasters had an 8 speed ZF , reverse gate with a switch , the later ones had the 8 speed reverse gate knock across job, left arm half way across the cab.
tony