1Ton bulk bags

Wheel Nut:
I cannot continue discussing this with a thick zb

The only reason for a TILT was to ensure no-one added anything to the load, in all intents and purposes it was a flat trailer, it didn’t need the extra waterproofing, so the load security was done by chains, straps, wire & ropes. It would have been double security to sheet a load inside a trailer. it wasn’t necessary

That contradictory bs seems to show that it’s not me who’s being a thick zb.If a load on a flat requires a sheet to help secure it and if,as you rightly say a tilt is to all intents and purposes a flat,just like a curtainsider is,then how the zb would sheeting the load in a tilt,or a curtainsider be any different to sheeting it on a flat to supposedly help with securing the load:?:.Assuming that is that any of those,who think that the job of a sheet isn’t just to keep the load dry,are correct :unamused: .

The fact is by sheeting a load in a tilt,or a curtainsider,you’d just be adding pointless extra weather protection that is already provided by the tilt cover on a tilt and the curtains on a curtainsider and that’s why no one has ever sheeted a load in a tilt or a curtainsider.However no one with any sense would ever carry a load in either a curtainsider or a tilt without securing it with chains,straps or ropes etc just as would be the case on a flat. :unamused:

Carryfast:

Wheel Nut:
I cannot continue discussing this with a thick zb

The only reason for a TILT was to ensure no-one added anything to the load, in all intents and purposes it was a flat trailer, it didn’t need the extra waterproofing, so the load security was done by chains, straps, wire & ropes. It would have been double security to sheet a load inside a trailer. it wasn’t necessary

That contradictory bs seems to show that it’s not me who’s being a thick zb.If a load on a flat requires a sheet to help secure it and if,as you rightly say a tilt is to all intents and purposes a flat,just like a curtainsider is,then how the zb would sheeting the load in a tilt,or a curtainsider be any different to sheeting it on a flat to supposedly help with securing the load:?:.Assuming that is that any of those,who think that the job of a sheet isn’t just to keep the load dry,are correct :unamused: .

The fact is by sheeting a load in a tilt,or a curtainsider,you’d just be adding pointless extra weather protection that is already provided by the tilt cover on a tilt and the curtains on a curtainsider and that’s why no one has ever sheeted a load in a tilt or a curtainsider.However no one with any sense would ever carry a load in either a curtainsider or a tilt without securing it with chains,straps or ropes etc just as would be the case on a flat. :unamused:

Absolute B********it

i used to use a brick net inside a c/s quite often to secure building products like slabs,kerbs,etc as i found that a tight net would hold these types of products better than ropes/straps, as the products were only resting on small pallets and due to there bieng a gap down the middle of the trailer if straps were used all it did was cause the product to slide inwards and fall of the pallet during normal driving!
as long as the net was good and tight the corners of the product would poke through the holes in the net and hold in place v well
the best way to secure bulk bags is to boot lace the lifting eyes together,then sheet,then rope
straps are a waste of time on thing such a powders/fert as the straps become loose in no time, ask anyone who transports fert on a regular basis

its quite clear to me that some experts on here have never done the job much and as a result give poor information to young/new drivers and spout total crap!!!
moose

Frankydobo:
Carryfast, we’ve already said some loads would travel no problem on a flat unsheeted or roped so therefore yes they will travel in a tilt or tautliner just the same. Take a load of 200 lt drums, on a tautliner we would load them four to a pallet (if your lucky to have them palletised) and some of these pallets would be topped to make up the full weight, now nothing else was done to them, the curtains were closed and off you went, infact the company I worked for had many tautliners and none of them had straps inside, if we needed to strap anything we used our own from the cab. However load a flat the same way and to many it wouldn’t look safe so the lot would be sheeted or not and the top and rear drums could have barrell hitches on them, you know what they are of course! Purely piece of mind security I suppose whereas the tautliner curtain falsely gives this (I’m not a fan of Tautliners and one of those rare people it seems who prefered flats and sheets).

On the other hand some loads are suitable for a sheeted flat trailer that will not ride in a tautliner apart from the most obvious ones, hence some of the goods would collapse or move or worst case come out the side and I’ve seen this happen more with curtains and tilts then I have with sheets. Okay how the stuff was secured on these might be the answer to why they moved, that’s a different subject but there would be no denying that on a flat and correctly roped and sheeted these loads wouldn’t have moved in most cases. Why, because the sheets assisted in holding them in place. I have a real life experience of this when I loaded chipboard on a 40ft flat and a driver from our other depot loaded into a tauliner and strapped his load. He made several unhelpful comments about me not having a tauliner or straps and it was too dodgy a load to rope and sheet. Although he was finished before me we had to wait for notes so when I had tied the last knot, (without any help from this other bloke) we both left the place and I followed him until the first roundabout where his load moved to one side resulting in him having to return to the loading point. I went home with no problems although driving in the necessary fashion with such a load. We are just trying to make you see the point that sheets do assist in security as well as keeping a load dry.

:open_mouth: :confused: :unamused:

My theory as to why roped loads can be safer than strapped loads is that with rope you’ve got the ability to tie the load down over far more points than with straps because the chances are,in most cases,that there probably won’t be sufficient straps to go over the load and tie it down at enough/as many points over the length of the load.

However that has zb all to do with sheets having the ability to secure a load they are just there to keep it dry and as I’ve said having always tied down even a few empty pallets it’s obvious that I wouldn’t carry anything else without securing it either.

matamoros:

Carryfast:

Wheel Nut:
I cannot continue discussing this with a thick zb

The only reason for a TILT was to ensure no-one added anything to the load, in all intents and purposes it was a flat trailer, it didn’t need the extra waterproofing, so the load security was done by chains, straps, wire & ropes. It would have been double security to sheet a load inside a trailer. it wasn’t necessary

That contradictory bs seems to show that it’s not me who’s being a thick zb.If a load on a flat requires a sheet to help secure it and if,as you rightly say a tilt is to all intents and purposes a flat,just like a curtainsider is,then how the zb would sheeting the load in a tilt,or a curtainsider be any different to sheeting it on a flat to supposedly help with securing the load:?:.Assuming that is that any of those,who think that the job of a sheet isn’t just to keep the load dry,are correct :unamused: .

The fact is by sheeting a load in a tilt,or a curtainsider,you’d just be adding pointless extra weather protection that is already provided by the tilt cover on a tilt and the curtains on a curtainsider and that’s why no one has ever sheeted a load in a tilt or a curtainsider.However no one with any sense would ever carry a load in either a curtainsider or a tilt without securing it with chains,straps or ropes etc just as would be the case on a flat. :unamused:

Absolute B********it

Think that applies more to the answers so far to the question.All wheelnut seems to be able to come up with is that a tilt is just there to satisfy customs requirements not to keep the load dry and because of that the idea of needing to sheet a load to help secure it doesn’t apply whereas it would if it was a flat.Although that explanation also seems to ignore the same question in the case of curtainsiders. :unamused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I used to enjoy roping and sheeting (in the summer), used to get a lot of job satisfaction from sheeting up and it being done well.
Not all loads could be sheeted tidily, some were a nightmare to sheet neatly due to the shapes of them.
We used to deliver conservatories, summerhouses and garden buildings. Lots of timber frames fastened to a rack down the middle of the bed, with the triangular roof segments standing up on end, were a right pain to sheet.
Steel and timber was easy :laughing:
If I had bulk bags on a flat, I would be happier with them roped and sheeted rather than strapped.

cieranc:
I used to enjoy roping and sheeting (in the summer), used to get a lot of job satisfaction from sheeting up and it being done well.
Not all loads could be sheeted tidily, some were a nightmare to sheet neatly due to the shapes of them.
We used to deliver conservatories, summerhouses and garden buildings. Lots of timber frames fastened to a rack down the middle of the bed, with the triangular roof segments standing up on end, were a right pain to sheet.
Steel and timber was easy :laughing:
If I had bulk bags on a flat, I would be happier with them roped and sheeted rather than strapped.

I know what you mean I used to do hay and straw animal feed and a lot of visquen out of Stockton. Mainly multi drop. Straps were almost unheard of when I 1st started. Fert and cement were a doddle fly sheet and a diagonal rope over the back and go.

Moose:
i used to use a brick net inside a c/s quite often to secure building products like slabs,kerbs,etc as i found that a tight net would hold these types of products better than ropes/straps, as the products were only resting on small pallets and due to there bieng a gap down the middle of the trailer if straps were used all it did was cause the product to slide inwards and fall of the pallet during normal driving!
as long as the net was good and tight the corners of the product would poke through the holes in the net and hold in place v well
the best way to secure bulk bags is to boot lace the lifting eyes together,then sheet,then rope
straps are a waste of time on thing such a powders/fert as the straps become loose in no time, ask anyone who transports fert on a regular basis

its quite clear to me that some experts on here have never done the job much and as a result give poor information to young/new drivers and spout total crap!!!
moose

Fert is virtually all we do, and i would love to see someone atempt to strap a load of imported AN(litfert) :smiley: :smiley: , but what does on the job expeirience count for when faced with a vosa rulebook that will never do practical.

However that has zb all to do with sheets having the ability to secure a load they are just there to keep it dry and as I’ve said having always tied down even a few empty pallets it’s obvious that I wouldn’t carry anything else without securing it either.
Carryfast.

I understand what the point is your trying to make but you also have to except evidence from someone that has many times shifted goods that were held securely by the sheets as well as the ropes which in most cases did not go over the actual items but between so the sheet would act similar to shrinkwrap. Not every item came shrunkwrapped, banded, stillaged, or even palletised so therefore the sheet must have some load securing ability along with keeping the wet out. If as you say your one of these drivers that won’t move anything without it being tied, strapped or chained then fine, I knew others like you and despite what others might have told them they wouldn’t budge on their mindset, I have no problem with that and each to their own. In the end its all about experience, confidence and knowledge of the job you are doing. Franky.

Well, theory says that the sheet is there only to keep the load dry.
Experience says it adds security to the load.

You can bump your gums all you like about the theories and technicalities, but you’re arguing with experience.

renaultman:
I know what you mean I used to do hay and straw animal feed and a lot of visquen out of Stockton. Mainly multi drop. Straps were almost unheard of when I 1st started. Fert and cement were a doddle fly sheet and a diagonal rope over the back and go.

Ahh you’re an old timer, I’m just a kid :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
Seriously though, you learn them roping and sheeting skills from somewhere, right? And it’s not out of a manual.
Proper skills like that are like an apprenticeship, you won’t learn half that stuff on a Drivers CPC course.

I was on for John Dickinson at Winston. A right nice family to work for, one I would happily go back to should the need arise.

Remember loading engines out of ■■■■■■■ Darlington for ERF at Sandbach, saying to the forkie “another quarter inch with that one drive”. FLT driver looking at me as if I was stupid and asking “will it make any difference to your axle weights”? Me answering “no but it’ll make a difference to how the sheet pulls tight”.

'Kin ell, that’s me reminiscing and I’m only 30 odd. Must be pished.

Hi All.

A number of times over the years I have worked with drivers at the same company, or seen drivers I know vaguely from other companies who have “lost” their loads over the side/back and I’m afraid it’s often even when the load has had been roped & sheeted, dogged and chained or strapped whether on flat coilers (which we mostly used) or curtainsiders. Sorry to have to say this, but in my experience it’s usually been down to driver error. Usually way too fast and/or aggressive on roundabouts, tight bends/corners or Junctions etc.

I’ve seen 25+ ton Steel Coil come flying out of a deep coil well that had no business moving at all whether strapped, chained or not :open_mouth: I’ve seen sheet steel on or off pallets, galvanised sheets (for the now defunct mines), tin-plate all come flying off because drivers didn’t seem to understand or be concerned about inertia and mass and once something very heavy starts to move it’s usually beyond the point where you can stop it.

We used to back load “anything” that would fit legally on a 40ft flat triaxle coiler. All the usual suspects like bricks, paper, fert, plastics, ingots, aluminium slabs, steel slabs, concrete products, steel I-Beams, empty pallets/stillages (used to be car industry), arched steel pit props, sheeted and unsheeted timber of all sizes, scrap steel bales etc.

This is no doubt why VOSA etc have little choice but to bring in “extra” regulations/laws covering “load security”. It’s often a case of the few bad apples and sometimes “other causes?” :frowning: causing enforced changes that everyone else then has to comply with who ordinarily just go about their driving career safely year after year.

I am not “the perfect” driver and certainly made a few mistakes over the years as most drivers with any balls and honesty will readily admit. I’m just so glad I never lost a load off the side by my own incompetence or lack of common sense when it came to load security etc. :neutral_face:

On the subject of rope and sheets securing a load, I remember only too well when I was green/young and first started Class 1 driving, I had to pick up my first ever load of corrugated, galvanised 1 ton per pack steel from one of the many steel product companies in the West Midlands. 24 ton, side by side down the deck on oily timbers as it was only banded, non palletised and very, very slippery…Gulp! Also, the company I worked for back then only supplied a few straps per driver (if you were lucky) so it was rope and sheet load security and a few straps or nothing! :sunglasses: Oh, and the sheets were years old and most eyelets and ties were long gone lol :grimacing: . So I got it loaded, roped & sheeted as best I could and then had to decide where to put my three straps. I had 12 rows to cover as stated above so I split it up by strapping the third, sixth and ninth bundles leaving the last three as there is usually much less inertia the further you go down the trailer away from the headboard. :stuck_out_tongue:

And so here we go, Fired up the old ■■■■■■■ E290 SedAtki 401 (Sigh, great days, no speed limiters etc :smiling_imp: ) and pointed myself south heading for Deep Navigation Mine in South Wales with a load of steel to help prevent the miners having a good many tons of rubble, earth and stone falling about their lug holes. Got down as far as Ross on Wye without incident taking it real easy and constantly in the mirrors checking the slippery buggers on the back. Passing Ross, third roundabout (bottom of hill), half way around really taking it steady as it’s not a very big or particularly wide roundabout, an old farmer in his ancient Landrover decides he can’t be bothered to wait and proceeds to pull out in front of me literally right under my windscreen :open_mouth: . Remember, on this part of the roundabout, I’m at the point of highest inertia. It was brake quite hard or hit him, no other choice. I was fuming as you can imagine :angry: . I couldn’t see the nearside as I was still only half way around. After a bit of cursing, which the auto sensor won’t allow lol, I jammed her in gear and proceeded around. As she was starting to straighten out I was anxiously waiting and watching the nearside mirror :neutral_face: . Sure enough, I saw something that every driver dreads. A 1 Ton pack of steel hanging, yes hanging! In the ripped sheets, and two of them each side of it partially on the the way over…Argggggggghhhhhh!! :blush: :open_mouth: :blush: (Insert all the usual car and careless driver rants here).

Not too far from the roundabout is a large lay-by so I crawled down to it terrified of disturbing the packs even more. Out I get and off to inspect my “inherited” problem. I felt a bit sick when I walked round the front of the cab and saw the pack hanging in the sheet! After looking at it for a while and wondering how the hell I was going to get it back on, I (stupidly) :open_mouth: got under this one TON pack and tried with all my strength to push it back on the trailer. Of course, at a ton dead weight, it was impossible to move it hardly at all and here was a reasonably thin, weakened, ripped, years past it’s sell by date canvas sheet holding it in place! The ropes around it had also sheared completely :open_mouth: .

So do I agree that roping and sheeting helps to keep a load in place as well as dry? Darned right I do. I am the proof and even though the one shifted into the sheet, it still held it in place. Those sheets are a LOT stronger than you might think and the lighter, lower and more even the load, the better they are at securing it with good “in between” roping :wink:

It’s a long story how I got it back on, so I’ll just say that not far away was a very small industrial estate and I asked a company in there if they would allow their forklift driver to lift it back on and push the other two back into place, which thankfully and very gratefully they did. (Can you imagine anyone doing that for you today?) :unamused: .
I then proceeded as steadily as before, without further incident and tipped the load at Deep Navigation Mine, only later having to explain to the company the ripped sheet and exactly what had caused it, only to be blamed for it anyway :confused: …Such is a drivers life sometimes lol.

How about this for “logic?” When things were quiet, we would pop into Longbridge, Cowley, Jags at Coventry etc for empty steel cage pallets of various sizes (the slot into each other type). These were forklifted on two to four high depending on their size. If we were in there with a flat (almost always), then the pallets were simply roped across each double and crossed at the back. If however you were in there with a curtainsider virtually nobody ever secured them at all! You just closed the curtains on them and off you went! I know they were quite light and the curtains would “probably” hold them in most cases and I must admit I never once recall a SINGLE pallet ever moving. So why then should they move on a flat without being roped? Well, I think the answer might be that if you were being a careful and cautious driver the very large heavier one’s probably wouldn’t, yet neither you, the Public, or especially the Police would usually view this as acceptable as one can “see” that the load is not secured in any way. In fact, I remember “some” drivers trying to tell me, nah mate, no need to rope em’ all, just cross the back and they won’t go anywhere! They soon changed their minds though when the Traffic Police started booking them for having an “unrestrained” load!! :neutral_face:

I both agree and disagree with some comments about load security, or the lack of it on this thread and I’m not going to be a hypocrite and say I “always” did this that or the other. Like most drivers I just had to use my best judgement at the time for whatever load I was carrying that day and do all I could to make sure it stayed safely in place to it’s final destination. :stuck_out_tongue:

Do I agree with the new regulations and laws on load security etc? Not necessarily all of them no. But then, it really doesn’t matter if the laws are forced on the Drivers/haulage industry by incompetent drivers, car drivers being careless, (insert any other valid reason to you here), you have to comply with the rules whether you like it or not. And if the rules state that 1 ton bags of Fert (or whatever) have to be secured individually by ropes, net, sheet etc and not just a cross on the back two, then this is what you will all eventually have to do to keep your licence/job etc. :wink:

At the end of the day, it beats having to explain to your employer (and possible future one’s) why that 1 ton bag ended up on the roadside fertilizing the daffodils instead of fertilizing farmer Giles’s bloody fields :slight_smile: :grimacing:

Disclaimer: :unamused: This is just my own opinion/view and is neither intended to offend, disagree/agree nor insult anyone whatsoever. Neither is it advice or suggestion or anything else. All I know is that after that first “incident” in my very early years as a driver that, that 1 ton pack of steel “could” very easily have landed on a car or a bike or a person and NO driver that’s conscious and careful ever wants to be responsible in any way for the serious injury or death of another person. I know that I’m glad I never was! :neutral_face:

Oh, and P.S. Stripping down a Tilt so that it’s quite heavy, not very pliable cover can be used as a “sheet” on U.K. General Haulage? Hmm, most unusual old boy lol. :grimacing: But each to their own I guess :wink: :open_mouth:

Oops, that post wasn’t meant to be that long. I’m so sorry I got carried away reliving it all :blush:

Andy…

Gen Haul you have encapsulated my views exactly, it would have taken me far too long to get it all down in writing. :slight_smile:

Some drivers are just feeble and secure anything and everything, hense why rachet straps and automated gearboxes’ are standard equipment.

Saaamon:
Some drivers are just feeble and secure anything and everything, hense why rachet straps and automated gearboxes’ are standard equipment.

More like synchro and auto boxes were introduced to suit lazy useless zb’s who can’t be bothered to secure anything and everything properly and who think that a sheet or the curtains of a curtainsider are there to secure a load with. :unamused:

Saaamon:
Some drivers are just feeble and secure anything and everything, hense why rachet straps and automated gearboxes’ are standard equipment.

Like that you mean :neutral_face:

menmedia.co.uk/manchesterevening … 0-motorway

I suppose it’s off topic as it wasn’t a 1T bag :confused:

Carryfast:

Saaamon:
Some drivers are just feeble and secure anything and everything, hense why rachet straps and automated gearboxes’ are standard equipment.

More like synchro and auto boxes were introduced to suit lazy useless zb’s who can’t be bothered to secure anything and everything properly and who think that a sheet or the curtains of a curtainsider are there to secure a load with. :unamused:

Quetion about yourself, what do you do and what sorts of things do you carry? I ask myself a couple of questions, does it look dodgy? Will it off at the first roundabout?

Today for example i had a few crates of heavyish(500-600kgs ea) pipe work on, they didnt get strapped, also had a lone oil barrel type drum full shrink wrapped to a pallet, but that did get a strap.

Saaamon:

Carryfast:

Saaamon:
Some drivers are just feeble and secure anything and everything, hense why rachet straps and automated gearboxes’ are standard equipment.

More like synchro and auto boxes were introduced to suit lazy useless zb’s who can’t be bothered to secure anything and everything properly and who think that a sheet or the curtains of a curtainsider are there to secure a load with. :unamused:

I ask myself a couple of questions, does it look dodgy? Will it off at the first roundabout?

Today for example i had a few crates of heavyish(500-600kgs ea) pipe work on, they didnt get strapped

Why not :question: . :unamused:

Who needs a roundabout. :smiling_imp:

youtube.com/watch?v=UjSeZMrk_00

Admittedly probably a ‘bit’ more than 500-600 kgs each.0.19 Notice the one that hit the fire hydrant. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Can these bags be double stacked and if YES, then what would be the right way to secure?

romik:
Can these bags be double stacked and if YES, then what would be the right way to secure?

Throw a strap over every one and hope for the best.