Wheel Nut:
Mr CF, you keep saying “If Im wrong” which you plainly are. A TILT Sheet will weigh getting on for half a tonne and one man wouldn’t throw it on the top of a load of paper reels, never mind spread it out…
Load securing with tarpaulins was done from the very early days of road transport.
It isn’t the small sheet ties that hold the load on, that just keeps the edges off the floor and from fouling the propshaft, it is the ropes that then stretch the sheet between the load in a parcel. Some hauliers would then use a fly sheet to tidy it up, others could make it tidy anyway.
Dennis used to use drivers who roped over his flysheet as trainee cocklepickers
So you’re saying that no one ever struggled to strip a tilt to a flat and put it back together again,in my case always done in the yard with some help luckily,and that a tilt cover was a totally unmanageable and an impossibly heavy item to be folded up enough to be put on the back of a trailer and spread out over a load or to shift around anywhere by anyone anytime and that all sheets were always light enough to get up onto a load of paper reels for example without ever needing to find some ‘other way’ like some help from a fork lift 
. 
It wasn’t me who said that sheet ties and eyelets help to secure the load remember but they are used to secure the sheet and help to tension it.
However I’ve already posted elsehwhere about a very tidy job that someone had made of roping over a fly sheet and it looke more or less like that tilt cover did when I used it as a sheet for the few jobs I needed to do with the tilt stripped down to a flat and a lot better than the job made by the bloke who did this did. 
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=45587&p=1105436&hilit=roping+sheeting#p1105436
However with all that you’ve still not answered the question as to why it is/was that no one ever sheets/ed a load in a tilt or a curtainsider assuming that the job of a sheet/s is to secure the load not just to keep it dry . 
Carryfast:
So you’re saying that no one ever struggled to strip a tilt to a flat and put it back together again,in my case always done in the yard with some help luckily,and that a tilt cover was a totally unmanageable and an impossibly heavy item to be folded up enough to be put on the back of a trailer and spread out over a load or to shift around anywhere by anyone anytime and that all sheets were always light enough to get up onto a load of paper reels for example without ever needing to find some ‘other way’ like some help from a fork lift .
It wasn’t me who said that sheet ties and eyelets help to secure the load remember but they are used to secure the sheet and help to tension it.
However I’ve already posted elsehwhere about a very tidy job that someone had made of roping over a fly sheet and it looke more or less like that tilt cover did when I used it as a sheet for the few jobs I needed to do with the tilt stripped down to a flat and a lot better than the job made by the bloke who did this did.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=45587&p=1105436&hilit=roping+sheeting#p1105436
However with all that you’ve still not answered the question as to why it is/was that no one ever sheets/ed a load in a tilt or a curtainsider assuming that the job of a sheet/s is to secure the load not just to keep it dry .
Yes I have stripped Tilts to the bare bones and rebuilt them and the last one took me about 7 hours to rebuild because of the heat, so to say you were using a Tilt on general haulage in the UK is more crap. Of course you can move the sheet about, but they are a welded fitted sheet, not designed to wrap a load with.
As for securing the load. I did mention it, secured by customers using twisted wire ropes, signode strapping and chains as they knew the trailer was going to be custom sealed with a long international journey and they wanted it to get there in one piece as much as the driver did.
Wheel Nut:
Carryfast:
So you’re saying that no one ever struggled to strip a tilt to a flat and put it back together again,in my case always done in the yard with some help luckily,and that a tilt cover was a totally unmanageable and an impossibly heavy item to be folded up enough to be put on the back of a trailer and spread out over a load or to shift around anywhere by anyone anytime and that all sheets were always light enough to get up onto a load of paper reels for example without ever needing to find some ‘other way’ like some help from a fork lift .
It wasn’t me who said that sheet ties and eyelets help to secure the load remember but they are used to secure the sheet and help to tension it.
However I’ve already posted elsehwhere about a very tidy job that someone had made of roping over a fly sheet and it looke more or less like that tilt cover did when I used it as a sheet for the few jobs I needed to do with the tilt stripped down to a flat and a lot better than the job made by the bloke who did this did.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=45587&p=1105436&hilit=roping+sheeting#p1105436
However with all that you’ve still not answered the question as to why it is/was that no one ever sheets/ed a load in a tilt or a curtainsider assuming that the job of a sheet/s is to secure the load not just to keep it dry .
Yes I have stripped Tilts to the bare bones and rebuilt them and the last one took me about 7 hours to rebuild because of the heat, so to say you were using a Tilt on general haulage in the UK is more crap. Of course you can move the sheet about, but they are a welded fitted sheet, not designed to wrap a load with.
As for securing the load. I did mention it, secured by customers using twisted wire ropes, signode strapping and chains as they knew the trailer was going to be custom sealed with a long international journey and they wanted it to get there in one piece as much as the driver did.
Why is it crap to say that I was using a tilt on general haulage in the uk when I most certainly was and at least 90% of the time it was no different using it here on general than a curtainsider because it only needed stripping for overhead loading and as those jobs were luckily all run out empty from the yard to collect and back to the yard empty after tipping,as I said,stripping it and putting it back together wasn’t done by myself and didn’t take anything like 7 hours 
. . 
As for a tilt cover not being designed to sheet a load with no one obviously told the guvnor that and I certainly wasn’t going to try considering that’s how they’d been doing it long before I went there and no one obviously told whoever used one to ‘sheet’ that load on that Greek trailer in the pic I’ve found and posted.That’s assuming you can recognise a tilt cover used to sheet a flat when you see one. 
However as for all the crap about loads secured in tilts for long international journeys that doesn’t explain why no one bothers to sheet loads in tilts OR curtainsiders used on local/medium/long distance uk general haulage assuming that sheets have any part to play whatsoever in securing a load .
limeyphil:
happysack:
I’ve got 27 tonnes of wood chips on. Only a curtain holding them in.
but that’ll be a chip liner. it’s designed, and tested for the job you’re doing.
are you going to Sonae, liverpool?
YesI know…I was being sarcastic!
Loaded for Hexham. Sonae on Monday night though.
Carryfast:
Wheel Nut:
Carryfast:
So you’re saying that no one ever struggled to strip a tilt to a flat and put it back together again,in my case always done in the yard with some help luckily,and that a tilt cover was a totally unmanageable and an impossibly heavy item to be folded up enough to be put on the back of a trailer and spread out over a load or to shift around anywhere by anyone anytime and that all sheets were always light enough to get up onto a load of paper reels for example without ever needing to find some ‘other way’ like some help from a fork lift .
It wasn’t me who said that sheet ties and eyelets help to secure the load remember but they are used to secure the sheet and help to tension it.
However I’ve already posted elsehwhere about a very tidy job that someone had made of roping over a fly sheet and it looke more or less like that tilt cover did when I used it as a sheet for the few jobs I needed to do with the tilt stripped down to a flat and a lot better than the job made by the bloke who did this did.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=45587&p=1105436&hilit=roping+sheeting#p1105436
However with all that you’ve still not answered the question as to why it is/was that no one ever sheets/ed a load in a tilt or a curtainsider assuming that the job of a sheet/s is to secure the load not just to keep it dry .
Yes I have stripped Tilts to the bare bones and rebuilt them and the last one took me about 7 hours to rebuild because of the heat, so to say you were using a Tilt on general haulage in the UK is more crap. Of course you can move the sheet about, but they are a welded fitted sheet, not designed to wrap a load with.
As for securing the load. I did mention it, secured by customers using twisted wire ropes, signode strapping and chains as they knew the trailer was going to be custom sealed with a long international journey and they wanted it to get there in one piece as much as the driver did.
Why is it crap to say that I was using a tilt on general haulage in the uk when I most certainly was and at least 90% of the time it was no different using it here on general than a curtainsider because it only needed stripping for overhead loading and as those jobs were luckily all run out empty from the yard to collect and back to the yard empty after tipping,as I said,stripping it and putting it back together wasn’t done by myself and didn’t take anything like 7 hours . .
As for a tilt cover not being designed to sheet a load with no one obviously told the guvnor that and I certainly wasn’t going to try considering that’s how they’d been doing it long before I went there and no one obviously told whoever used one to ‘sheet’ that load on that Greek trailer in the pic I’ve found and posted.That’s assuming you can recognise a tilt cover used to sheet a flat when you see one.
However as for all the crap about loads secured in tilts for long international journeys that doesn’t explain why no one bothers to sheet loads in tilts OR curtainsiders used on local/medium/long distance uk general haulage assuming that sheets have any part to play whatsoever in securing a load .
I would have thought it obvious. They don’t bother strapping the load either because they think the curtains will keep it in.
One last go at this from me.
Sheets are used on flats for a dual purpose, firstly for weatherproofing, secondly for helping with load security. Nobody has said that the sheet alone keeps the load in place, its most useful function in this respect is to spread the effect, and hence the pressure on the load,from the ropes or straps.In effect changing from a point load to a spread load (load as in force not cargo), think tyres- point load, railway track - spread load. Now ask yourself which is capable of carrying the heavier load, brick nets and cargo webbing(used inside curtainsiders) fulfill the same function.
A tilt has a waterproof cover so the weatherproofing function is redundant, consequently other methods of load restraint are used for somecargo but not necessarily all, even the sides of a boarded tilt have some load bearing capability. QED
Consider a tilt, curtainsider, euroliner loaded floor to roof, front to back, with pallets of empty plastic containers, virtually no weight. Would you and VOSA recommend strapping such a load and if so how?
A sheet with ropes (and/or straps) is probably the best way of securing loads such as bulk bags, paper reels and even badly stacked, uneven pallets.
matamoros:
Consider a tilt, curtainsider, euroliner loaded floor to roof, front to back, with pallets of empty plastic containers, virtually no weight. Would you and VOSA recommend strapping such a load and if so how?
In reality they wouldnt be strapped and you know it.
Saaamon:
matamoros:
Consider a tilt, curtainsider, euroliner loaded floor to roof, front to back, with pallets of empty plastic containers, virtually no weight. Would you and VOSA recommend strapping such a load and if so how?
In reality they wouldnt be strapped and you know it.
Yes I know that and have carried loads like that safely many times but VOSA and Carryfast seem to be of the opinion that every load inside a curtainsider must be strapped and that tensioned side curtains have no load bearing capability.
anyone who even thought about using a tilt on uk general needs looking at , they are hard work even if you go in the rear flap let alone side or over head . you need to be an expert fence builder and built like an ox … horrible things .
for the ‘younger’ ones, this is the ‘inside’ of a tilt, (loading in Coimbra Portugal)
the 2 worse things to do with a tilt is a full stripdown (stripping it down to a flatbed) the next worse is to strip the roof out for loading thru the roof
id never want a tilt for general UK work, way too much hard work, its bad enough just taking the sides out.
kindle530:
for the ‘younger’ ones, this is the ‘inside’ of a tilt, (loading in Coimbra Portugal)
the 2 worse things to do with a tilt is a full stripdown (stripping it down to a flatbed) the next worse is to strip the roof out for loading thru the roof
id never want a tilt for general UK work, way too much hard work, its bad enough just taking the sides out.
So you’re saying,assuming as I’ve said,the thing is used 90% + of the time in just the same way as a curtainsider for side loaded jobs that dropping the sides and pulling the cover out of the way and taking out a few light bits of wood then reversing that process (after roping the load down) is more difficult than having to rope and sheet a flat for all jobs including side loaded ones.
The fact is under those conditions there’s very little difference between using a tilt or a curtainsider.However the relevant and important bit is that when the tilt is being used as a tilt,just as in the case of a curtainsider,the load needs to be sucured in just the same way as if it was on a flat.The only difference between a flat and a tilt or curtainsider is that the flat has to be sheeted to provide the weather protection which the curtains or the tilt cover provide on a curtainsider or a tilt.
However if all the bs about sheets being required to help with ‘securing’ a load in addition to providing weather protection then all loads carried on curtainsiders (or tilts) would still need to be sheeted thereby making the whole invention of the curtainsider totally pointless.
Carryfast:
kindle530:
for the ‘younger’ ones, this is the ‘inside’ of a tilt, (loading in Coimbra Portugal)
the 2 worse things to do with a tilt is a full stripdown (stripping it down to a flatbed) the next worse is to strip the roof out for loading thru the roof
id never want a tilt for general UK work, way too much hard work, its bad enough just taking the sides out.
So you’re saying,assuming as I’ve said,the thing is used 90% + of the time in just the same way as a curtainsider for side loaded jobs that dropping the sides and pulling the cover out of the way and taking out a few light bits of wood then reversing that process (after roping the load down) is more difficult than having to rope and sheet a flat for all jobs including side loaded ones.
The fact is under those conditions there’s very little difference between using a tilt or a curtainsider.However the relevant and important bit is that when the tilt is being used as a tilt,just as in the case of a curtainsider,the load needs to be sucured in just the same way as if it was on a flat.The only difference between a flat and a tilt or curtainsider is that the flat has to be sheeted to provide the weather protection which the curtains or the tilt cover provide on a curtainsider or a tilt.
However if all the bs about sheets being required to help with ‘securing’ a load in addition to providing weather protection then all loads carried on curtainsiders (or tilts) would still need to be sheeted thereby making the whole invention of the curtainsider totally pointless.
Don’t think you have read my previous post, I could get into technicalities but it would serve no purpose as trying to reason with you is like reasoning with a wall. You & VOSA - the blind leading the blind !!
matamoros:
Saaamon:
matamoros:
Consider a tilt, curtainsider, euroliner loaded floor to roof, front to back, with pallets of empty plastic containers, virtually no weight. Would you and VOSA recommend strapping such a load and if so how?
In reality they wouldnt be strapped and you know it.
Yes I know that and have carried loads like that safely many times but VOSA and Carryfast seem to be of the opinion that every load inside a curtainsider must be strapped and that tensioned side curtains have no load bearing capability.
The way I’ve always seen it is that a curtainsider (or a tilt) is just a flat that doesn’t need to be sheeted to provide weather protection.The fact is you would’nt carry even a few empty pallets on a flat without securing them with rope or straps and the same would apply in the case of a curtiansider (or a tilt) loaded with pallets of empty plastic containers.Simples.
matamoros:
So you’re saying,assuming as I’ve said,the thing is used 90% + of the time in just the same way as a curtainsider for side loaded jobs that dropping the sides and pulling the cover out of the way and taking out a few light bits of wood then reversing that process (after roping the load down) is more difficult than having to rope and sheet a flat for all jobs including side loaded ones.
The fact is under those conditions there’s very little difference between using a tilt or a curtainsider.However the relevant and important bit is that when the tilt is being used as a tilt,just as in the case of a curtainsider,the load needs to be sucured in just the same way as if it was on a flat.The only difference between a flat and a tilt or curtainsider is that the flat has to be sheeted to provide the weather protection which the curtains or the tilt cover provide on a curtainsider or a tilt.
However if all the bs about sheets being required to help with ‘securing’ a load in addition to providing weather protection then all loads carried on curtainsiders (or tilts) would still need to be sheeted thereby making the whole invention of the curtainsider totally pointless.
Don’t think you have read my previous post, I could get into technicalities but it would serve no purpose as trying to reason with you is like reasoning with a wall. You & VOSA - the blind leading the blind !!
You didn’t answer my question.It’s got nothing to do with the blind leading the blind as I’ve said there’s not much difference between using a tilt or a curtainsider on general haulage work and both are a lot easier than using a flat that needs to be roped and sheeted to do the same job.
I’ve also not seen any credible answers yet to the question as to why,if a sheet is needed to help secure a load,that no one has ever sheeted a load within a curtainsider or a tilt.
Carryfast, we’ve already said some loads would travel no problem on a flat unsheeted or roped so therefore yes they will travel in a tilt or tautliner just the same. Take a load of 200 lt drums, on a tautliner we would load them four to a pallet (if your lucky to have them palletised) and some of these pallets would be topped to make up the full weight, now nothing else was done to them, the curtains were closed and off you went, infact the company I worked for had many tautliners and none of them had straps inside, if we needed to strap anything we used our own from the cab. However load a flat the same way and to many it wouldn’t look safe so the lot would be sheeted or not and the top and rear drums could have barrell hitches on them, you know what they are of course! Purely piece of mind security I suppose whereas the tautliner curtain falsely gives this (I’m not a fan of Tautliners and one of those rare people it seems who prefered flats and sheets).
On the other hand some loads are suitable for a sheeted flat trailer that will not ride in a tautliner apart from the most obvious ones, hence some of the goods would collapse or move or worst case come out the side and I’ve seen this happen more with curtains and tilts then I have with sheets. Okay how the stuff was secured on these might be the answer to why they moved, that’s a different subject but there would be no denying that on a flat and correctly roped and sheeted these loads wouldn’t have moved in most cases. Why, because the sheets assisted in holding them in place. I have a real life experience of this when I loaded chipboard on a 40ft flat and a driver from our other depot loaded into a tauliner and strapped his load. He made several unhelpful comments about me not having a tauliner or straps and it was too dodgy a load to rope and sheet. Although he was finished before me we had to wait for notes so when I had tied the last knot, (without any help from this other bloke) we both left the place and I followed him until the first roundabout where his load moved to one side resulting in him having to return to the loading point. I went home with no problems although driving in the necessary fashion with such a load. We are just trying to make you see the point that sheets do assist in security as well as keeping a load dry.
I think we are wasting our time " there is none so blind as he who will not see"
PS don’t share your love for roping & sheeting though 
I cannot continue discussing this with a thick zb, who has never been outside of the UK, except in a super Jaguar that he designed better than the factory ever could.
The only reason for a TILT was to ensure no-one added anything to the load, in all intents and purposes it was a flat trailer, it didn’t need the extra waterproofing, so the load security was done by chains, straps, wire & ropes. It would have been double security to sheet a load inside a trailer. it wasn’t necessary
Thanks for bringing this back to the original question and answering why bulk bags don’t need strapping in a Tautliner. I moved plenty of them this way and never had any trouble, the fine powder inside which was used in the manufacture of floor tiles would have done just as you say with a strap over the top anyway. However if VOSA is pushing this I doubt the driver will have any influence no matter what his experience or skill. Franky.
lacing down the centre is probably the best for sand ,fert etc if the loader keeps the bags tight together(side shifts the forks then drops the bag) one stap across the back keeps them all together . every time ive strapped every bag when u unload the straps arent tight so they arent really doing a lot anyway 