Wheel Nut:
Carryfast:
Wheel Nut:
Carryfast:
Like the wooden slats in the side of a tilt body would hold or stop zb all if it wanted to shift get real 
.The fact is that tilts were used on general haulage to carry exactly the same loads as others used roped and sheeted flats for.If those loads needed to be sheeted to help secure the load then the same would have applied in the case of the same load carried on the tilt 
.Which wasnât the case.
The only difference between the two was that in the case of the flat the same ropes or straps also secured the sheet unlike in the case of the cover on a tilt.However the job of the cover in the case of the tilt and the sheet in the case of the flat was exactly the same.They were both there to keep the load dry and that was all.Which is why no one ever sheeted a load in a tilt to help keep it on the back.
Sheets certainly didnât have any load bearing ability and were never meant to be used to secure the load just as is the case with curtains.That was what the ropes/straps were/are for.
However if you think Iâm wrong just carry on and donât listen and just argue your point with VOSA/HSE instead.
Surprisingly you are wrong, especially about the tilts, The loads were fastened to the chassis or platform, the main reason for the wooden slats was as spreader bars for the superstructure and to support the sheets, you must remember the strip outs in the desert wnen you were on night trunk
It wasnât me who said that the slats were there to secure the load it was actually someone who thinks that sheets are there to do that on a flat and and the curtains on a curtainsider and then to finish the job the slats on a tilt. 
I didnât need to zb about with tilts in the desert because I spent enough time doing the job on general haulage here because I wasnât always a night trunker remember.The thing was absolutely no different to a flat in having all the required usual anchorage points along the sides and front and back for ropes and straps found on any flat.Luckily for most jobs it was an advantage in that I didnât need to sheet the loads only rope them.Except for paper reels where the governor said he wanted it stripped and used as a flat in which case I had to use the tilt cover as a sheet to keep the load dry not to hold it on the back. 
But if Iâm wrong,regardless of how the loads were tied down on a flat or a tilt,and if the job of sheets is to help secure a load to a flat,then why wasnât/isnât the same required to secure the same load carried in a tilt 
.
You are veering away from the thread again, the tilt body or superstructure was approved by customs to show that the load had not been tampered with by adding something, it wasnât to stop theft it was sealed at all 4 corners with reinforced tapes, the TIR cord ran through the D rings and sealed at the ends, the tilt cover did offer some weather protection but no-one just loaded them without any restraints. I agree they were not sheeted under the tilt cover, but the loads were packed for safety and were secured as the distances covered were generally much further afield with less chance of being able to check the loads. It was much easier with spansets and signode strapping to secure the loads and trust in them staying secured
But that wasnât the only way that tilts were used as in my case.It was used in exactly the same way as it would have been if it had been stripped to itâs flat condition,with just the advantage that it didnât need to be sheeted as it was when it was used as a flat.Which was effectively similar to using a curtainsider with the difference of using the D rings and the tilt cord just the same as in your description instead of buckles on a curtainsider.Curtains,and sheets,just like tilt covers,are weather protection not load securing devices and in most,if not all,cases thatâs how VOSA will (correctly) see it.
However as youâve said no one has ever sheeted a load in a tilt (or in a curtainsider) to secure it or even to help to just partly secure it.Which really says everything about all the bs about the use of a sheet to secure a load.
Iâve got 27 tonnes of wood chips on. Only a curtain holding them in.
Letâs hear what weâve got to say about:
Shrink wrapped bricks, pallets of banded blocks etc loaded on a flat or dropside WITH A GAP up the middle of the trailer between the pallets. Even with corner boards the strap over the top of each pallet row is doing what with that gap?
Long paper reels, are the really safer on end in a standard curtainsider fitted with centre roof rail mounted straps than they were on a sheeted flat with scotches and scotch boards? The paper companies donât like you strapping over the top of the reels only round the roll. Their own trailers are purpose built.
Carryfast, have you ever carried a load secured by roping and sheeting, what you and VOSA think is just plain wrong. VOSA are correctly looking at load security but in many cases have got it wrong. Loads will always be shed, mainly because of the use of inappropriate methods often incorrectly applied.
It would take too long to explain the many different types of load and restraint methods and would seem pointless to someone with an obviously closed mind.
Curtains and sheets do have some load bearing capability.
happysack:
Iâve got 27 tonnes of wood chips on. Only a curtain holding them in.
but thatâll be a chip liner. itâs designed, and tested for the job youâre doing.
are you going to Sonae, liverpool?
matamoros:
Carryfast, have you ever carried a load secured by roping and sheeting, what you and VOSA think is just plain wrong. VOSA are correctly looking at load security but in many cases have got it wrong. Loads will always be shed, mainly because of the use of inappropriate methods often incorrectly applied.
It would take too long to explain the many different types of load and restraint methods and would seem pointless to someone with an obviously closed mind.
Curtains and sheets do have some load bearing capability.
Which part of paper reels (amongst a few other loads that needed to be top loaded not side loaded) carried on a stripped to a flat tilt trailer,using the tilt cover as a sheet to keep the load dry not to secure it,in just the same way that the tilt cover was only there to keep the load dry not to secure it on all the other occasions when I was using the thing as a tilt not a flat,donât you understand.Curtains and sheets arenât there to provide âload bearing capabilityâ.At least according to me and VOSA.
I think the original idea of the curtainsider was to provide exactly that advantage which I liked about using the tilt on all side loaded jobs in that the thing doesnât need to be sheeted to keep the load dry .
If the sheets on a flat were there to provide load security,by putting them across the load and then roping the sheet down between parts of the load to hold it,then itâs obvious that curtains wonât provide that ability anyway in which case loads would still have needed to be sheeted in curtainsiders and tilts to help to secure them which isnât the case.
However weâve then got the stupid idea taken to next modern day level in the thinking that the curtains are there to stop an unsecured load flying off the side of the trailer.
Yes its obvious reading what Carryfast says about tilts this and tilts that, that heâs never roped and sheeted a flat in his life, otherwise he wouldnât be coming out with the rubbish heâs spouting because if heâd been on General Haulage moving goods around on flats heâd know just how much sheets assist at times in securing a load. The point I was trying to make was that the driver would often decide it was as easy to put a sheet over some loads and rope in such a way as to have the sheet assist in holding things still, which is the main object of moving anything around on a vehicle.
The need to then rope every hook or second hook could then be extended to every fourth depending on what the driver decided not some guy that hasnât even done the work before. This must be the most Nannied occupation in Britain, Iâm glad Iâm out of it.
Carryfast:
matamoros:
Carryfast, have you ever carried a load secured by roping and sheeting, what you and VOSA think is just plain wrong. VOSA are correctly looking at load security but in many cases have got it wrong. Loads will always be shed, mainly because of the use of inappropriate methods often incorrectly applied.
It would take too long to explain the many different types of load and restraint methods and would seem pointless to someone with an obviously closed mind.
Curtains and sheets do have some load bearing capability.
Which part of paper reels (amongst a few other loads that needed to be top loaded not side loaded) carried on a stripped to a flat tilt trailer,using the tilt cover as a sheet to keep the load dry not to secure it,in just the same way that the tilt cover was only there to keep the load dry not to secure it on all the other occasions when I was using the thing as a tilt not a flat,donât you understand.Curtains and sheets arenât there to provide âload bearing capabilityâ.At least according to me and VOSA.
I think the original idea of the curtainsider was to provide exactly that advantage which I liked about using the tilt on all side loaded jobs in that the thing doesnât need to be sheeted to keep the load dry .
If the sheets on a flat were there to provide load security,by putting them across the load and then roping the sheet down between parts of the load to hold it,then itâs obvious that curtains wonât provide that ability anyway in which case loads would still have needed to be sheeted in curtainsiders and tilts to help to secure them which isnât the case.
However weâve then got the stupid idea taken to next modern day level in the thinking that the curtains are there to stop an unsecured load flying off the side of the trailer.
âCarryfast, have you ever carried a load secured by roping and sheeting,â
Answer:" Which part of paper reels (amongst a few other loads that needed to be top loaded not side loaded) carried on a stripped to a flat tilt trailer,using the tilt cover as a sheet to keep the load dry not to secure it"
Iâll take that as a no then.
I rest my case mâlud.
Completely agree with Frankydoboâs last post.
Frankydobo:
Yes its obvious reading what Carryfast says about tilts this and tilts that, that heâs never roped and sheeted a flat in his life, otherwise he wouldnât be coming out with the rubbish heâs spouting because if heâd been on General Haulage moving goods around on flats heâd know just how much sheets assist at times in securing a load. The point I was trying to make was that the driver would often decide it was as easy to put a sheet over some loads and rope in such a way as to have the sheet assist in holding things still, which is the main object of moving anything around on a vehicle.
The need to then rope every hook or second hook could then be extended to every fourth depending on what the driver decided not some guy that hasnât even done the work before. This must be the most Nannied occupation in Britain, Iâm glad Iâm out of it.
So you obviously didnât understand the fact that a completely stripped tilt is in fact a zb flat.
Roping in such a way as to have the sheet âassistingâ in holding (securing) anything has always been incorrect practice so itâs obvious to me that while you might have roped and sheeted a few loads in your time it was obviously more by luck than judgement (or the over lenient outlook of the ministry) that you never found yourself charged with having a n insecure load like,luckily,you probably would end up being done by VOSA for doing if you did the same thing now.
As Iâve said if the sheet is there to help in securing a load then why the zb is it that no one ever sheeted a load in a curtainsider or a tilt .I wonât be holding my breath waiting for an answer.
matamoros:
Carryfast:
matamoros:
Carryfast, have you ever carried a load secured by roping and sheeting, what you and VOSA think is just plain wrong. VOSA are correctly looking at load security but in many cases have got it wrong. Loads will always be shed, mainly because of the use of inappropriate methods often incorrectly applied.
It would take too long to explain the many different types of load and restraint methods and would seem pointless to someone with an obviously closed mind.
Curtains and sheets do have some load bearing capability.
Which part of paper reels (amongst a few other loads that needed to be top loaded not side loaded) carried on a stripped to a flat tilt trailer,using the tilt cover as a sheet to keep the load dry not to secure it,in just the same way that the tilt cover was only there to keep the load dry not to secure it on all the other occasions when I was using the thing as a tilt not a flat,donât you understand.Curtains and sheets arenât there to provide âload bearing capabilityâ.At least according to me and VOSA.
I think the original idea of the curtainsider was to provide exactly that advantage which I liked about using the tilt on all side loaded jobs in that the thing doesnât need to be sheeted to keep the load dry .
If the sheets on a flat were there to provide load security,by putting them across the load and then roping the sheet down between parts of the load to hold it,then itâs obvious that curtains wonât provide that ability anyway in which case loads would still have needed to be sheeted in curtainsiders and tilts to help to secure them which isnât the case.
However weâve then got the stupid idea taken to next modern day level in the thinking that the curtains are there to stop an unsecured load flying off the side of the trailer.
âCarryfast, have you ever carried a load secured by roping and sheeting,â
Answer:" Which part of paper reels (amongst a few other loads that needed to be top loaded not side loaded) carried on a stripped to a flat tilt trailer,using the tilt cover as a sheet to keep the load dry not to secure it"
Iâll take that as a no then.
I rest my case mâlud.
Completely agree with Frankydoboâs last post.
Iâm not surprised that that youâd completely agree with Frankydoboâs post considering that you obviously donât seem to think that a tilt,thatâs been stripped to a flat,and then used to carry paper reels by roping it and sheeting it with the tilt cover,isnât (in your view) actually a roped and sheeted load on a flat.
Bulk bags only need strap if there very light i.e bark chips or double stacked.
Saaamon:
Bulk bags only need strap if there very light i.e bark chips or double stacked.
Great so just get rid of the countryâs fleet of tippers and bulkers and just put all the stuff in bags instead and then carry it all on flats without the need for any load securing to hold the bags on the wagon.
Thatâs assuming even a strapped/roped load of bagged bulk on a flat/curtainsider is the right way to do the job instead of using a tipper or a bulker to carry bulk loads anyway.
Carryfast:
Saaamon:
Bulk bags only need strap if there very light i.e bark chips or double stacked.
Great so just get rid of the countryâs fleet of tippers and bulkers and just put all the stuff in bags instead and then carry it all on flats without the need for any load securing to hold the bags on the wagon.
Thatâs assuming even a strapped/roped load of bagged bulk on a flat/curtainsider is the right way to do the job instead of using a tipper or a bulker to carry bulk loads anyway.
Sorry i dont get what your saying, the thread is about whether its safe to carry bags un-strapped.
Iâm not surprised that that youâd completely agree with Frankydoboâs post considering that you obviously donât seem to think that a tilt,thatâs been stripped to a flat,and then used to carry paper reels by roping it and sheeting it with the tilt cover,isnât (in your view) actually a roped and sheeted load on a flat.
Carryfast
SENIOR MEMBER
Posts: 4891
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:45 pm
Not arguing with the fact that a stripped down tilt is a flat but a tilt cover is not what I would call a wagon sheet. A wagon sheet is specifically designed to cover and help to secure the load, it has reinforced eyelets and its own attached cords to take up slack and tighten the sheet. I donât think you would find any of those on your tilt cover.
Other posters have said this before but how do you think loads were transported before the advent of the miraculous tilt.
I will say again there are many methods of load restraint many of which you do not seem to understand.
Well Im long retired & out of the haulage game, Ive carried allsorts of loads in my days as a long distance driver [Not a Trucker], Loads of cartons of soap powder 8 ft high, Roped & Sheeted with corner boards, no probs, The ropes in those days were sisal, they gave the old hands some stick I can tell you, & if one was seen to be wearing gloves, OH DEAR, you never lived it down. Also carried steel, bricks,anchor chain,timber, you name it we did it in the old days, a pallet load or a crane job was a treat,but getting back to load security its all down to the driver, & speaking for myself I never ever lost a load off, I did have a load or two lean a bit, but that was due to the boxes being to shiney at Thos. Hedleys soap works on City Rd Newcastle, [P&G], Regards Larry, [The Old School Set]
Think we are wasting our time with this one, Carryfast has got a history of coming out with statements that defy logic and it seems he will be right no matter what others say. Wish I lived in his world it must be perfect.
matamoros:
Not arguing with the fact that a stripped down tilt is a flat but a tilt cover is not what I would call a wagon sheet. A wagon sheet is specifically designed to cover and help to secure the load, it has reinforced eyelets and its own attached cords to take up slack and tighten the sheet. I donât think you would find any of those on your tilt cover.
Other posters have said this before but how do you think loads were transported before the advent of the miraculous tilt.
I will say again there are many methods of load restraint many of which you do not seem to understand.
I know that a tilt cover has no way of itâs own of being tightened which,from anyone who knows anything,I would have thought would have brought me the credit due for being able to actually sheet anything with it,considering the weight of it,and for knowing how to rope the zb thing down properly to stop it flying away off the back.Which obviously was never something that you ever had to do.But the reason why I went to all that trouble was to keep the load dry not to help secure it.Which is why no one ever sheeted a load carried in a tilt or a curtainsider.
However the fact is,that just like the straps and buckles on a curtainsiderâs curtains,and the framework,slats,D rings,and tilt cord on a tilt those bits of string and eylets on a sheet were just meant to keep the sheet tight and therefore supported against the wind and airflow over it on the move nothing more and certainly not meant to play any part in securing the load.
Frankydobo:
Think we are wasting our time with this one, Carryfast has got a history of coming out with statements that defy logic and it seems he will be right no matter what others say. Wish I lived in his world it must be perfect.
If you was right youâd have been able to answer that question as to why no one ever sheeted a load in a curtainsider or a tilt if sheeting the load is meant to play any part in securing it. 
Saaamon:
Carryfast:
Saaamon:
Bulk bags only need strap if there very light i.e bark chips or double stacked.
Great so just get rid of the countryâs fleet of tippers and bulkers and just put all the stuff in bags instead and then carry it all on flats without the need for any load securing to hold the bags on the wagon.
Thatâs assuming even a strapped/roped load of bagged bulk on a flat/curtainsider is the right way to do the job instead of using a tipper or a bulker to carry bulk loads anyway.
Sorry i dont get what your saying, the thread is about whether its safe to carry bags un-strapped.
I think Iâve answered that question and raised another in doing so.Now where the zb is VOSA considering that this is all basic,important,safety related stuff .
Mr CF, you keep saying âIf Im wrongâ which you plainly are. A TILT Sheet will weigh getting on for half a tonne and one man wouldnât throw it on the top of a load of paper reels, never mind spread it outâŚ
Load securing with tarpaulins was done from the very early days of road transport.
It isnât the small sheet ties that hold the load on, that just keeps the edges off the floor and from fouling the propshaft, it is the ropes that then stretch the sheet between the load in a parcel. Some hauliers would then use a fly sheet to tidy it up, others could make it tidy anyway.
Dennis used to use drivers who roped over his flysheet as trainee cocklepickers