1st pay slip under WTD

[scanny77]

misinterpretation. we do get paid for POA as long as we declare it. we get paid start - finish minus breaks

[conor]

Good result there Scanny but the thread has highlighted just how much confusion there is over something that they’ve had 3 years to prepare for.

God help them when digital tachos arrive.

[scanny77]

THIS shows how much confusion there is. i found this letter in a 7.5 tonner whilst working there doing home deliveries. all drop and drive stuff, no installing any appliances etc

CREW MEMORANDUM

From;

1 st April 2005

re: Morning Despatch/Working Time Directive

Ladies and Gentlemen:
As you are probably aware the new Working Time Directive comes in to effect from Monday 4th April 2005.
There would appear to be very little impftct to our organisation at the moment and the majority of the impact being on HGV drivers. However we do need to develop an office based system to record hours worked and I am currently involved in developing this process with our admin. department, I will inform you of any future changes that may affect the way we operate our system.

The initial changes that will involve all crew member’s is we are required to record accurate time’s that our crew’s, start work,
In order to do this, we will need both driver and mate to report to morning despatch in order to collect the daily pack prior to commencing work (home-base) or telephoning to confirm both
Crew members are in the cab (out-base).
This appears to be the only immediate change but once again: I will update you as the process evolves.
If you have any further questions or queries please do not hesitate to ask your TDM or myself.

Thanks for your help Alan

[scanny77]

i am losing £50 CASH a week. thats £50 from my bank, not gross pay

not enough to live on so now what? what are we supposed to do? break the law or stop doing the job we love? can someone tell me where i get my £50 back?

[steve_24v]

That’s the reason no-one mentions the WTD at our place and this weeks pay is the best to date…

[paul_midway]

find another job with a decent basic wage to reclaim your lost earnings

[scanny77]

im on above average for the area

[rob_k]

Find a job that pays hourly then. I’m doing the exact same amount of hours per week (65-70) as I was before the WTD came in and am running legally within the driver’s hour law and still taking the same money I was doing pre-WTD so if I can do it then so can anyone else.

Just need to point out that ‘careful’ use of the tacho mode switch is required though!

[scanny77]

im agency mate. £7.50 P/H and if you mean what i think you mean, i am seriously thinking about it. unfortunately, they are trying to get us to sign a contract which means i wont get paid for those hours

the unwitting may sign but i have a copyof the regs which means i wont sign as it stands

[conor]

How are you losing money? Its not made the slightest bit of difference to me. Methinks you’re not taking full advantage for the PoAs.

[robert_haynes]

I am down over 50 quid a week too.
Being a skip wagon driver means POA’s don’t exist to me. It is drive work drive work… break… drive work…
Personal reasons mean the job used to perfect for me, staying close to home and 60 hours plus meant a reasonable income.
Now? The job is goosed

[sir_lans-a-lot]

Robert Haynes:
… Being a skip wagon driver means POA’s don’t exist to me. It is drive work drive work… break… drive work…

It’s similar on short-haul tippers too. All our work is local. As drivers at the firm I work for average between 40 and 50 hours per week, the WTD will be pretty negligible for us.

[scanny77]

i do final deliveries. last week it was construction materals so it is a matter of drive, drop, drive again. i will look at the mode switchs potential but the agency dont want to pay POA. a copy of the relevant page from the regs will be included with my time sheet this week

[eddie_snax]

Dont thimk its going to make to much difference to me, salary and bonus, hours mean nothing, 69 hours on card this week, only 50.25 hours of WTD, the rest was either on rest or POAs. 69 hours was a larger than normal amount, usualy do about 61or2 hours, so on that basis i could keep down to the 48 average without a hit in the pocket.

[jonah_1]

scanny77:
i do final deliveries. last week it was construction materals so it is a matter of drive, drop, drive again. i will look at the mode switchs potential but the agency dont want to pay POA. a copy of the relevant page from the regs will be included with my time sheet this week

If your agency wont pay for p.o.a’s then go on another agency that will.Theres plenty around and if they paid for you to wait before why wont they pay now?

A p.o.a is still part of your working day the same as a tacho break is do they deduct this from your wages?

If they do then you are definatley on a cac agency I’ve worked for a number in my time & if they do things like this I go elsewhere at the end of the day it’s a drivers market at the moment.

They need you more than you need them

[denis_f]

north surrey haulage:
A p.o.a is still part of your working day the same as a tacho break is do they deduct this from your wages?

the latest RHA briefing said

POA’s should be paid - because time spent on POA’s would usually fall under the provisions of the National Minimum Wage Regulations

[scanny77]

north surrey haulage:
it’s a drivers market at the moment.

They need you more than you need them

funnily enough, i said something very similiar in Trucking this month (may). none of the agencies round here pay for the first break and none of the others pay as well as the one i am with. i am getting regular work and the type of work i like. i am happy with the agency with everything apart from this. it is possible that they have worded it wrongly. it says that we agree that working time is paid time. as i understand it, POA is not working time so will not be paid for it. i will clear it up with them tomorrow and correct the contract accordingly

[jb]

My boss tried to introduce a new pay structure a few weeks ago… £10.50 p/hr all working time… 1st two hours poa UNPAID…

We didnt go for that option
Are you saying he couldnt legally do that denis?

[denis_f]

JB:
Are you saying he couldnt legally do that denis?

it probably hasn’t been tested legally yet, but the March 2005 RHA briefing says

Question . . .
Must a worker be paid for periods of availability - even if these periods
do not count towards the working time limits under the Mobile Workers Regulations?
Answer . . .
Generally yes. An essential feature of the POAs is that the driver should not
be required to remain with their vehicle or at their workstation (although they
can for reasons of security etc), and they must be available to answer calls
to start work or resume driving.
National Minimum Wage (NMW) regulations state that a worker must be paid at least the minimum wage for the times when he is at work and required to be at work (excluding rest breaks); is on standby or on-call or waiting to be given work, at or near the place of work.
Most employers will be obliged to pay the normal hourly rate/salary for POAs as outlined in the contracts of employment given to the drivers.
Breaks are not generally paid.

[jonah_1]

scanny77:

north surrey haulage:
it’s a drivers market at the moment.

They need you more than you need them

funnily enough, i said something very similiar in Trucking this month (may). none of the agencies round here pay for the first break and none of the others pay as well as the one i am with. i am getting regular work and the type of work i like. i am happy with the agency with everything apart from this. it is possible that they have worded it wrongly. it says that we agree that working time is paid time. as i understand it, POA is not working time so will not be paid for it. i will clear it up with them tomorrow and correct the contract accordingly

One job I was on with the agency insisted on deducting a 45 minute “meal break”

So I would go out do my deliveries have my 45 min tacho break then as soon as I went above my 8 hr min & onto O/time I would pull over & have my “meal break”.

After a week or two I got a phone call from the TM on the job wanting to know

“why have I taken 2 tacho breaks everyday when I didn’t need to”

My reply

“I havn’t,I’ve taken a tacho break & my meal break”

TM

“But you have to have them at the same time!”

Me

“why?”

TM
“Because you are getting back to the yard too late for reloading the next days run”

Me

“then you should schedule the runs so that I can get my breaks in within the time you want me back”

TM

“All the other drivers can manage”

Me

"Yes but unlike all your other drivers I’m not breaking the law "

TM

"How are they breaking the law "

Me

“by unloading while the tacho is on break,And as long as you deduct a meal break from my wages I’m gonna take it”

TM

“why dont you take it at the same time as your tacho break?”

Me

“Because I’m not paid for it therefore it is my time and I will take it when I want and as it comes out of my first hours o/t thats when I’ll take it”

TM

“what if we were to stop deducting it”