So I ended up going 5 minutes over my 15 hours the other week, finished shortly before 23:00 then next day had a 09:00 start and a short day (10-ish hours) but got 2 infringemnts
1 for daily rest not taken on time (obvious) the first day
2nd for exceeding driving hours on the SECOND day (10hrs 17 mins accodring to Tachomaster) at 11:18 so 2 hours into my shift!?
It is difficult to find anything concrete on that situation, so I can’t post anything that is definitive. Possibly one to query with the DVSA with an email.
The software clearly thinks at that particular point you haven’t had sufficient rest to continue driving, so exactly what rest is required before you can resume as normal?
Wouldn’t like to hazard a guess.
But I continued my 2nd day shift for another 7+ hours and this included plenty of driving maybe 3 or 4 more hours so how did it stop at 10hrs 17 mins, the infringement would state 13 or 14 hours driving time as I most certainly didn’t take a daily rest 2 hours into my day to cause a driving time reset…
If you are an employed driver then your transport manager is responsible for explaining your infringements to you. Giving you a sheet of paper and saying “sign here” is not enough.
Possibly the infringement is recorded at the point or shortly after exceeding 10 hours driving and the system doesn’t further penalise you for driving on further.
It is one of those ones where you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. You didn’t get 9 hours rest in the 24 hour period, but your work is expecting you in. Said work will then ask you to sign pieces of paper because you came in to work at your allotted time. It may well be that said work is also giving you unrealistic work demands that put you in the position in the first place.
As above my guess would be that because you never had a qualifying daily rest period the analysis software calculates the driving time from the start of your shift and records it as an infringement when you’ve gone over the 9/10 hour daily driving period.
If you had an available 10 hour drive I’m guessing that you stopped driving at 11:18 and at the point had been driving for more than 17 minutes.
It looks to me that the software calculates the infringement for the time that you stop driving after going over the 9/10 hour driving period.
Hope that makes sense, it does to me but… 
OK but what is a qualifying daily rest period in this case? I’ve had bang on 15 hour days before followed by 9 hour rest (see my rant thread about this job) with no infringements thus my understanding is that a reduced daily rest is legal following a 15 hour day but it seems now that I’ve been OVER 15 hours a short rest is illegal and a minimum of 11 hours is required am I understanding this right?
A daily rest period has to be completed within the period of 24 hours from the start of the shift, if the daily rest period is not completed within the period of 24 hours it’s not a qualifying daily rest period.
The problem is not that you had a reduced daily rest period, the problem is that you had no qualifying daily rest period.
I don’t think it would make any difference if you had an 11 hour regular daily rest period, it would still not be a qualifying daily rest period because when your shift is more than 15 hours it’s not possible to get a reduced or regular daily rest period within the 24 hour period.
Edit: I will edit to say that @tachograph is correct that if a 9 hour rest doesn’t fit, then neither does an 11 hour rest. I was considering the situation once the infringement had already been made and to avoid the second infringement as per the question.
The possible ways of figuring that one out would be:
a) trial and error, which would involve not getting 9 hours rest and starting again at various points to try and figure it out
b) ask the DVSA
I could probably come up with something that seems logical as a guess, but we know that sometimes the rules don’t work in a very logical way, so it would be a pointless exercise guessing.
Maybe you were typing at the same time as @tachograph ?
But I think he is on the button here:
So, there is no legal answer to @ets question.
Maybe there is a “glitch” in the analysis software that will reset the day at some point, but that will be a function of the software, not any sort of legal resetting.
I’m quite open to correction on that.
@franglais I didn’t repeat what @tachograph said about 11 hours. I was answering the remaining question of what would reset the driving, which somebody must know, just not us.
Sorry, I have re-read what was said.
Yep @tachograph was talking about what reset the daily rest (nothing can)
And you were talking about how/why the software decided to reset t5he dring at 10hr17 in the example?
Well yes, the answer is that once you’ve failed to have a qualifying daily rest period your driving time will keep accumulating until you do complete a qualifying daily rest period or a weekly rest period.
The EU guidance is that when you fail to have a qualifying daily rest period, the period of 24 hours is reset as soon as you’ve completed a rest period of 9/11 hours, unfortunately I don’t see anywhere that suggests that the daily driving time is also reset.
The definition of daily driving time is the driving time between daily rest periods or the driving time between a daily and weekly rest period.
As far as I can see the only way to reset the daily driving time is to have either a qualifying daily or weekly rest period, i.e. a daily rest period completed within the period of 24 hours from the start of the shift.
@franglais You are reminding me why I set your posts to invisible on the old forum.
@tachograph Thanks for that link. Indeed this is what I suspected but could not commit to as it would have been a guess.
As I understand if @ets had started at 8am the previous day, he could have started a valid daily rest at 8am and finished a reduced rest at 5pm.
Sorry I don’t understand what you mean.
If he started at 08:00 he needed to be finished work by 23:00 in order to fit a reduced daily rest period into the period of 24 hours from the start of the shift.
On day 2 he started work at 09:00 so needed to have completed a regular or reduced daily rest period no later than 09:00 the following day.
The way I understand it is that once a daily rest period (regular or reduced) is completed within the period of 24 hours from the start of the shift the daily driving time would be reset.
Alternatively, a weekly rest period will reset the daily driving time.
Day 1 start was 07:30 so according to what tachograph linked I figure a qualifying rest in this case would be 24hrs after the start time + 9 hours so to avoid the 2nd infringement I’d have to had started no earler than 16:30 the following day
@ets that is what I was getting at. You could in theory start at 9am as you have already incurred the infringement for lack of daily rest, but as an HGV driver, only having an hour of driving left (or whatever) isn’t much use normally.
@tachograph’s link does indicate the situation when an insufficient rest is taken and the 24 hour periods follow when the last valid daily or weekly rest finished, so they would start at 0730 until you actually take a valid one again. I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t immediately take one at 0730 if you wanted.
maybe i have missed somthing here…
start at 07:30 need to be finished 15 hours later ie 22:30 so 9 hours later you have done a days work and had a reduced daily rest. if you worked till 22:31 it is impossible to get 9 hours off by 07:30 the following morning.
if you go back to work the next day after working for longer than 15 hours i belive it runs all the activities together into what my old outfit used to call a linked day so any driving over the monday and tuesday or what ever days it was will be counted as one lot rather than 2.
The only way to avoid this as far as i know is to have a day off following the shift you went over 15 hours
Or do a shift but do not go over the 9/10 hours driving time from the start of the previous shift.
Say you did 8 hours driving on day 1 then never had a qualifying daily rest period, if you have a 10 drive available I think you should be able to do 2 hours driving on day 2 without getting an infringement for excessive daily driving time.