would you still get a infringement for the 15 hours+ what ever was worked the following day?
I just know when i got stuck because of just stop oil on dartford bridge my then gaffer wouldnt let me work the following night so i didnt rack up any more infringements. Its something i have done since when it happened once more but if its just a case of one infringement for working over 15 hours and another for insufficient daily rest then in future i guess i dont need a day off so my record isnt even worse
The way Iâm reading it, on a single manned journey, if you go over 15 hours shift time you will get an infringement for insufficient daily rest within the period of 24 hours, however as long as you have the required rest period of 9/11 hours, even though itâs not completed within the 24 hour period, the 24 hour period is reset.
In other words a new period of 24 hours starts after completing 9/11 hours rest regardless of whether or not it was completed within the previous period of 24 hours.
Unfortunately as far as I can see the only way to reset the daily driving time is by having a qualifying daily rest period or a weekly rest period.
I agree with @tachograph, except that I think if you havenât had a qualifying rest, the 24 hour periods run in 24 hour blocks starting at the time the last valid daily / weekly rest finished.
In the case of @ets, he last finished a valid daily or weekly rest at 0730, so the periods of 24 hours will start at 0730 until he finishes a valid daily or weekly rest.
In cases where enforcers are confronted with periods of activity following a qualifying daily or weekly rest period, during which drivers do not accomplish a qualifying daily rest period, it is recommended that enforcers:
1. divide the above mentioned periods of activity into consecutive periods of 24 hours starting from the end of the last qualifying daily or weekly rest
and
2. apply the rules on daily rest periods to each of these reference periods of 24 hours.
Where the end of such a 24-hour period falls within the on-going rest period, which is not a qualifying rest as its lawful minimum duration has not been accomplished within the 24-hour period, but which continues into the next period of 24 hours and reaches a minimum required duration, sometime thereafter, then the calculation of the next 24 hour period shall commence when a driver ends his rest period of a total duration of at least 9/11 hours or more and resumes his daily working period.
The way I read this suggests that the new period of 24 hours starts when a rest period of 9/11 hours has been completed.
Once you go over your 13 or 15 hours your daily rest and working day cannot fit into a 24 hour period. Therefore your rest period even if you take the extra 5 mins or more will not count as sufficient rest. So yes it will add the days driving from before after you last break and your current days driving time.
Simply as a driver you should ensure you have time to get back or might out to fit your daily rest into the 24 hour period. Unless in exceptional circumstances or for a safe parking place or load security, and obviously need to do a print out with an explanation and keep it for 28 days.
He hasnât had a sufficient rest in the 24 hour period. Simple as that your daily work time and rest period must fit into a 24 hour period from the time your shift starts.
@simcor, as @tachograph had already said that, I didnât repeat. I was more concentrating on how to obtain a qualifying rest period in order to reset the driving. The link to guidance notes has since clarified the situation somewhat.
@tachograph, yes it will change to this eventually, but in the first instance the new 24 hour period is 24 hours after the last valid daily or weekly rest finished. (I think, lol, Iâve been wrong before )
I opened up the document again and looked at some of the examples. Indeed there is one where an insufficient daily rest extends through the end of the 24 hour period and the new 24 period starts at the end of that rest.
In the example the driver goes on to drive for two lots of 4.5 hours during the next shift.
However, in the case of @ets, he appears to have done the same and it hasnât resulted in the driving resetting.
Having taken time to consider it more in depth, I canât come to any conclusion. If the guidance doesnât match the experience of @ets, could it be wrong?
Oh, the guidance you linked to. I hadnât read the examples, but still not completely clear. In the case of the o/p, he was interested in how the driving is reset in the case of an insufficient rest. I canât say definitively from the information I have.
The point Iâm making is you cannot fit a sufficient daily rest into a 24 hour period since starting work if you go over your 13 or 15 hours, it is a physical impossibility, I wasnât having a pop I was just replying to your question.
IT resets after sufficient rest has been taken, in my case start 7:30 but because over 15 hours a qualifying rest can only begin 24 hours after 7:30 ie. next day + 9 hours = 16:30 the rest requirement is satisfied and the driving time resets
@simcor Iâve known the rules inside out regards that for a large number of years now. What question did I ask?
The o/p required to know after having insufficient rest, what rest would then be required in order to avoid the second infringement for driving time the next shift.
Your post It is difficult to find anything concrete on that situation, so I canât post anything that is definitive. Possibly one to query with the DVSA with an email.
The software clearly thinks at that particular point you havenât had sufficient rest to continue driving, so exactly what rest is required before you can resume as normal?
Wouldnât like to hazard a guess
There is a question in there, it also seemed from your post there you did not know the answer, I was merely trying to clarify it simple as that, I hadnât read further replies at that point.
Is that not a question?
The software clearly thinks at that particular point you havenât had sufficient rest to continue driving, so exactly what rest is required before you can resume as normal?*.
The op has not had sufficient rest it was impossible to do so. I can guarantee if he looks at the infringment again it will be rest started too late and insufficient rest or something along those lines.
You were asking what rest is required before you can resume as normal.
Nothing can clear your card for the next day, if you go over you go over and you will have insufficient rest simple as that. Nothing will then clear it, whether you have 5 mins or 5 hours extra daily rest. Only a full daily rest will put you back to square one, so the next full daily rest would officially wipe the skate clean.
Oh and lastly your wording suggests you do not know to me, sorry but maybe re read your post again.
Either way I really canât be arsed going round and round in circles with you Iâll try to remember in future not to reply to one of your posts.
Yes you are correct anything over 13 or 15 hours means you have started you rest too late and have not had sufficient rest.
It really is as simple as that.
It will only be completely reset at tachograph had said but a full valid daily or even weekly rest period has been completed of you weekly rest follows that particular shift.
I really do not get why drivers in this day and age are going over the hours regulations, you are the driver itâs your licence on the line, you tell the office you are brining a drop back because you wonât have time, I mentioned it in on emof my posts, unless it is exceptional circumstances stances or to get to a safe place, just do not go over your driving time or hours.
Either ensure you have e sufficient time or night out.
I cannot think of a single time where I have gone over my driving hours once driving or daily duty time once ever. Because I wonât be told I must do X y or z by some office wallah. I make the decisions because I am the driver.
Iâve come close to nighting out because of an accident and was very close to my 15 hours but managed to make it back with a little time to spare and dump the trick and finish.
)
Yeah whatever, so I did, if that makes you feel any better.