Juddian:
Pretty obvious that there is little sympathy with the plight of the cyclist here, and we can only assume that this place is representative of the typical lorry driver out there.
We can safely assume that the typical cycling forum has equally blinkered thoughts being posted at this very moment,
Surprisingly not! well at least on the cycling forums I frequent. Sadly the blinkered view is always on trucker forums.
But “ALL” cyclists are the same aren’t they?
chester,
Tis a simple fact of life that cyclists and their grieving relatives are the main victims in this and although education may help some of them (cyclists), they are not the only road users who could learn a thing or two.
There are clearly plenty of truck drivers who care, not all of them are here. I think you can rest assured than most truck drivers do care. But we won’t all agree on the solutions.
Yes most cyclists are the same arrogant bunch of idiots as their loony green supporters in the government.
Care doesn’t get more caring than calling for the government to get cyclists off the roads and onto the pavements wherever possible.It’s obvious that most cyclists don’t want that at all.All they want is the same old status quo in which they refuse to use shared pedestrian/cycleways or use pavements wherever possible and then the idiots play the victim card when their wish to use the roads as their own private race track all inevitably goes pear shaped.
Dipper_Dave:
But if we can all agree to work together on this theres just a chance the roads can become a slightly safer place.
That’s the way forward!
Whereas this:
newmercman:
Just as “all” lorry drivers are the “same”
Is pointless flaming. And if you are a FORUM moderator… GO HAVE A WORD WITH YOURSELF!
Flaming? Really? My interpretation is that the original comment was made to point out the flaws in using the views on a forum as being representative of the cycling fraternity as a whole, as was my response, but in relation to lorry drivers.
Carryfast:
There’s no inconsistency between calling for cyclists to be removed from the roads and put on the pavements than the idea of seperate cycleways of whatever design wherever in the world.You’re obviously missing that point that most British cyclists choose not to use seperate cycleways and shared pedestrian/cycleways even when they are provided.Usually because they want to treat every cycle journey as a tour de france time trial event which means that cyclists don’t want the responsibility of having to treat pedestrians,who cyclists might have to share cycle way space with,in the same way as such stupid selfish cyclists expect to be treated by drivers using the roads where cyclists don’t belong.
It’s not that straight forward. Your simplification of the subject demonstrates a lack of understanding of the real issues. You ignore everything said to you and make poor comparisons with equally poor examples.
If you have properly separated cycles lanes, such as those in Holland - the system works well.
The problem with a lot of the so called cycle lanes in the UK, is they are bloody dangerous to get out of. As such, many cyclist don’t go into them, saves them the trouble of getting run over when trying to get out of them.
If you look at the Dutch model, their system is properly planned, proper lanes, and in most cases separate from the motorised carriageways, with their own traffic signals etc.
I have constantly referred you to the Dutch system - yet you constantly point to your personal experiences with those in the UK. I’ve never said the UK cycle lanes are a good example. I have constantly said it needs a re-design.
Did you watch the videos?
Riding bikes on paths is generally a very bad idea.
newmercman:
Flaming? Really? My interpretation is that the original comment was made to point out the flaws in using the views on a forum as being representative of the cycling fraternity as a whole, as was my response, but in relation to lorry drivers.
So stop SHOUTING.
I don’t care, you are off subject, this is not about a battle of wits, it’s about saving lives. You have made no constructive point, go play somewhere else!
chester wrote
Sadly the blinkered view is always on trucker forums.
Sadly my view is not blinkered but born of experience.Neither once nor twice but many times.
knight is this your own theory or have you read it somewhere.The reason I ask is that most of what I have read says exactly the opposite.
I already quoted one accident tonight and there are many more very similar and that is only one site.Most say the same that on average the fault is 50/50.
newmercman:
Flaming? Really? My interpretation is that the original comment was made to point out the flaws in using the views on a forum as being representative of the cycling fraternity as a whole, as was my response, but in relation to lorry drivers.
So stop SHOUTING.
I don’t care, you are off subject, this is not about a battle of wits, it’s about saving lives. You have made no constructive point, go play somewhere else!
Read back through my earlier posts, plenty if constructive comments in them.
I respectfully suggest you take your own advice, if you don’t like reading things that differ from your own opinions, a forum is not the best place for you to spend your time.
Unless…
The purpose if your visit is to bait other contributors to the thread in an attempt at trolling
Your last contribution is clearly against the rules of the site, telling another member to go play somewhere else is not allowed, free speech (within reason) is practiced here, I exercised my right to that, without personal attacks, that’s how it’s done
A petition started by The Times calling on the Prime Minister to implement the recommendations has received more than 67,000 signatures.
Sure we can do better than 67,000 with a request to implement more cyclist awareness of road safety and HGV vs Cyclist dangers.
Maybe it will fall on deaf ears or just maybe someone might think hang on when theres only trucks and bikes on the roads in major cities theres going to be an issue or two, perhaps it might be a vote winner to implement some sort of raised awareness campaign and chuck the on the spot fine thing in when we are elected.
newmercman:
Flaming? Really? My interpretation is that the original comment was made to point out the flaws in using the views on a forum as being representative of the cycling fraternity as a whole, as was my response, but in relation to lorry drivers.
So stop SHOUTING.
I don’t care, you are off subject, this is not about a battle of wits, it’s about saving lives. You have made no constructive point, go play somewhere else!
Read back through my earlier posts, plenty if constructive comments in them.
I respectfully suggest you take your own advice, if you don’t like reading things that differ from your own opinions, a forum is not the best place for you to spend your time.
Unless…
The purpose if your visit is to bait other contributors to the thread in an attempt at trolling
Your last contribution is clearly against the rules of the site, telling another member to go play somewhere else is not allowed, free speech (within reason) is practiced here, I exercised my right to that, without personal attacks, that’s how it’s done
Now…ON YOUR BIKE
Read the response to the threatening PM you sent me and grow up!
newmercman:
Read back through my earlier posts, plenty if constructive comments in them.
Now…ON YOUR BIKE
I was actually referring to the lack of point in that which I quoted - from you, not your entire input to the thread. Stop being so sensitive. this is a very serious issue - it’s not about point scoring. You are supposed to be a moderator - your’e acting like a school yard bully. Very childish.
Carryfast:
There’s no inconsistency between calling for cyclists to be removed from the roads and put on the pavements than the idea of seperate cycleways of whatever design wherever in the world.You’re obviously missing that point that most British cyclists choose not to use seperate cycleways and shared pedestrian/cycleways even when they are provided.Usually because they want to treat every cycle journey as a tour de france time trial event which means that cyclists don’t want the responsibility of having to treat pedestrians,who cyclists might have to share cycle way space with,in the same way as such stupid selfish cyclists expect to be treated by drivers using the roads where cyclists don’t belong.
It’s not that straight forward. Your simplification of the subject demonstrates a lack of understanding of the real issues. You ignore everything said to you and make poor comparisons with equally poor examples.
If you have properly separated cycles lanes, such as those in Holland - the system works well.
The problem with a lot of the so called cycle lanes in the UK, is they are bloody dangerous to get out of. As such, many cyclist don’t go into them, saves them the trouble of getting run over when trying to get out of them.
If you look at the Dutch model, their system is properly planned, proper lanes, and in most cases separate from the motorised carriageways, with their own traffic signals etc.
I have constantly referred you to the Dutch system - yet you constantly point to your personal experiences with those in the UK. I’ve never said the UK cycle lanes are a good example. I have constantly said it needs a re-design.
Did you watch the videos?
Riding bikes on paths is generally a very bad idea.
If riding cycles on pavements is such a bad idea how is it that I did exactly that to and from school on a daily basis with no major disasters and in a lot more safety than if I’d have used the roads instead over the same journey.In addition to which is that issue of cyclists refusing to use seperate cycleways even when they’ve been provided and the government not forcing the arrogant zb’s to do so.As for my experiences in the uk this is Britain not Holland and the fact is we’ve got miles of underused pavements with loads of room on them and purpose built cycleways for cyclists while the idiots prefer to use the roads together with all the extra risks instead.In addition to which the arrogant zb’s then force everyone else who chooses the safer option of staying off the roads onto them because ‘it’s the law’.When actually it’s just those same arrogant zb’s bs law.
Gentlemen
there are two sides(if not more) to every discussion - you can either shout at each other, ever more louder, and refuse to take in what the other has said, and achieve absolutely nothing or you can enter a dialogue.
The aim surely is to keep people alive and not have drivers haunted by memories. Cyclists may not like the fact they are being criticised here, and neither will truck drivers, but the simple truth is that both are going to have to be educated on how to share the roads - Its not just down to the trucks, Cyclists also have to be educated and if needed legally enforced to obey simple common sense.
Shouting at each other is not going to save lives, gaining an understanding of each others problems just might. Think on that before you type your next post
Carryfast:
If riding cycles on pavements is such a bad idea how is it that I did exactly that to and from school on a daily basis with no major disasters and in a lot more safety than if I’d have used the roads instead over the same journey.In addition to which is that issue of cyclists refusing to use seperate cycleways even when they’ve been provided and the government not forcing the arrogant zb’s to do so.As for my experiences in the uk this is Britain not Holland and the fact is we’ve got miles of underused pavements with loads of room on them and purpose built cycleways for cyclists while the idiots prefer to use the roads together with all the extra risks instead.In addition to which the arrogant zb’s then force everyone else who chooses the safer option of staying off the roads onto them because ‘it’s the law’.When actually it’s just those same arrogant zb’s bs law.
Tis why I said generally a bad idea. Where I live, not only are the pavements very quiet, there are large grass verges too. There would be no real problem with cycling carefully along pavements - provided the cyclist gave way to pedestrians.
Why it is generally a bad idea, is because… take this idea to a busy town centre and it would be very dangerous to pedestrians.
I hope that eventually the powers that be will pay what it costs to save lives and mirror the Dutch system over here.
I have never met not saw on any cycling forum a cyclist who things riding up the inside of a HGV is a good idea, for some reason the problem seems to be centred on London, Be interesting the see the statistics comparing London to other towns.
Also the posts saying cyclists are on a suicide mission are not if anything extremely disrespectful, I’m sure there is no cyclist that has ever wanted to be killed on the road. As mentioned the issues is on education and I believe that cycling should be part of the curriculum in schools and should take the place of the some P.E classes which normally seem to be centred around football rather then actual fitness sports.
Also on a short 1 hour ride tonight I did not ride up the inside of any HGVs however I had two who overtook me while indicating left then turned as soon as the got past, in the first instance if I had not noticed the repeater flashing as the truck was coming past and known that the garage ahead is where all the milk tankers go to wash out (I occasionally have the job of tanking the rinse water away) and slammed the brakes on and turned left onto the forecourt before the truck I would almost certainly have been killed, I had been riding at around 25mph it would have not held the drive up at all if he had just stuck behind rather then overtaking.
for the record this incident was on a main road so not exactly the usual scenario mentioned on here. but a serious one non the less
I wonder how many of the cyclist deaths have actually occurred in a similar fashion where the truck has passed the cyclist just before the junction and then turned with out giving them a chance, I’m willing to bet quite a few.
Rikki-UK:
Gentlemen
there are two sides(if not more) to every discussion - you can either shout at each other, ever more louder, and refuse to take in what the other has said, and achieve absolutely nothing or you can enter a dialogue.
The aim surely is to keep people alive and not have drivers haunted by memories. Cyclists may not like the fact they are being criticised here, and neither will truck drivers, but the simple truth is that both are going to have to be educated on how to share the roads - Its not just down to the trucks, Cyclists also have to be educated and if needed legally enforced to obey simple common sense.
Shouting at each other is not going to save lives, gaining an understanding of each others problems just might. Think on that before you type your next post
It’s that idea of the same old same old loony green party policy,that ‘everyone’ including cyclists is going to ‘have to’ continue to ‘share’ the roads,that will just result in yet more casualties caused by the direct results of that bonkers logic being allowed to continue.
AHT:
I have never met not saw on any cycling forum a cyclist who things riding up the inside of a HGV is a good idea, for some reason the problem seems to be centred on London, Be interesting the see the statistics comparing London to other towns.
Also the posts saying cyclists are on a suicide mission are not if anything extremely disrespectful, I’m sure there is no cyclist that has ever wanted to be killed on the road. As mentioned the issues is on education and I believe that cycling should be part of the curriculum in schools and should take the place of the some P.E classes which normally seem to be centred around football rather then actual fitness sports.
Also on a short 1 hour ride tonight I did not ride up the inside of any HGVs however I had two who overtook me while indicating left then turned as soon as the got past, in the first instance if I had not noticed the repeater flashing as the truck was coming past and known that the garage ahead is where all the milk tankers go to wash out (I occasionally have the job of tanking the rinse water away) and slammed the brakes on and turned left onto the forecourt before the truck I would almost certainly have been killed, I had been riding at around 25mph it would have not held the drive up at all if he had just stuck behind rather then overtaking.
for the record this incident was on a main road so not exactly the usual scenario mentioned on here. but a serious one non the less
I wonder how many of the cyclist deaths have actually occurred in a similar fashion where the truck has passed the cyclist just before the junction and then turned with out giving them a chance, I’m willing to bet quite a few.
Assuming that we’ve supposedly got all these truck drivers running around the place who haven’t even learn’t yet that the safest place to keep cyclists is well ahead and not try to pass them,if you’re even thinking of making a turn or stopping for any reason and who aren’t driving trucks on the mirrors as they ( should have been ) taught from day 1,then how is that these same idiots seem to be able to not hit any other type of road user and street furniture etc etc on a regular basis .
I have never met not saw on any cycling forum a cyclist who things riding up the inside of a HGV is a good idea
And there is your problem, is that committed sensible cyclists who frequent cycling forums recognise the danger, its the ones who just jump on a bike that don’t.
There has been a massive industry funded campaign to educate truck drivers, even those who don’t use forums such as these, where is the education for cyclists?
The road transport industry is doing and paying for its part, but cyclists have to educate their own, Its not all down to us to do, cyclists as a movement have to get their act together and stop blaming others and refusing to see their own faults. the road transport industry is doing its share, what are you cyclists doing away from the internet to educate?
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