Yet another Cyclist killed when will it stop!

MisterStrood:

Boomerang Dave:

MisterStrood:

Boomerang Dave:
The thing is - YOU DO NOT see theDutch system being used everyday in Britain. That is my point.

But I see it every year in Paris

FFS mate - which part of Holland is Paris in? - last time I was there it was in FRANCE.

Are you lost per chance■■?

No I am not but which part of Holland is Britain in ■■?

I know where Paris is and it uses similar system. I show you Paris as an example of good idea of how to avoid collisions between cyclists and other road users as you showed me the Dutch system.

Your comment just proves that you have no arguments other than trying to sell us the name of the system in place.
Volvo uses I shift
Mercs Power shift
DAF A Tronic and so goes on and on but all of them are based on one thing - automated transmission.

Mate, I recommend you read through this thread and see what I’ve written previously. And breathe…

Boomerang Dave:

MisterStrood:

Boomerang Dave:

MisterStrood:

Boomerang Dave:
The thing is - YOU DO NOT see theDutch system being used everyday in Britain. That is my point.

But I see it every year in Paris

FFS mate - which part of Holland is Paris in? - last time I was there it was in FRANCE.

Are you lost per chance■■?

No I am not but which part of Holland is Britain in ■■?

I know where Paris is and it uses similar system. I show you Paris as an example of good idea of how to avoid collisions between cyclists and other road users as you showed me the Dutch system.

Your comment just proves that you have no arguments other than trying to sell us the name of the system in place.
Volvo uses I shift
Mercs Power shift
DAF A Tronic and so goes on and on but all of them are based on one thing - automated transmission.

Mate, I recommend you read through this thread and see what I’ve written previously. And breathe…

What you wrote in conversation with me is enough. Dutch system is the one and only. Amen

MisterStrood:
What you wrote in conversation with me is enough. Dutch system is the one and only. Amen

I’ve addressed all that you are asking already in the thread, you are not taking on board what I am saying and quoting me out of context.

As I have said… time and again, the system here in the UK is bad, the system in Holland is good - and FWIW - the Paris system is nothing like the Dutch system, not even near. The Dutch system is properly integrated, planned and well thought out. The few cycle paths that exist in the UK are piecemeal - badly designed death-traps. There only to tick boxes, all explained in my previous posts. If you can’t be arsed reading it fine - but I’m not repeating all over for you.

Have a nice weekend. :smiley:

Boomerang Dave:
The thing is - YOU DO NOT see the Dutch system being used everyday in Britain. That is my point.

With reference to the cyclist trapped between the bus and the pickup - in a Dutch style cycle lane, that would not have happened.

Look at this another way. Truck runs over a cyclist. Truck driver is arrested, charged with manslaughter - sent to prison - licence removed - out of prison - out of work.

That scenario cannot happen if the cyclist is in a Dutch design cycle lane. If the cycle lane is there - the trucker could easily produce a defence against any case brought against him/her.

What you have done is what I predicted and produced bad comparisons.

EDITED TO ADD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxEquA2dVoU

Don’t know about you, but he sort of put himself in that position by undertaking him whilst the truck was moving, but on the other hand, the driver should have seen him as the cyclist is now in front

Boomerang Dave:

MisterStrood:
What you wrote in conversation with me is enough. Dutch system is the one and only. Amen

I’ve addressed all that you are asking already in the thread, you are not taking on board what I am saying and quoting me out of context.

As I have said… time and again, the system here in the UK is bad, the system in Holland is good - and FWIW - the Paris system is nothing like the Dutch system, not even near. The Dutch system is properly integrated, planned and well thought out. The few cycle paths that exist in the UK are piecemeal - badly designed death-traps. There only to tick boxes, all explained in my previous posts. If you can’t be arsed reading it fine - but I’m not repeating all over for you.

Have a nice weekend. :smiley:

What the cyclists really mean is that any solution which doesn’t involve a transfer of road space from motor traffic to cyclists,as opposed to making cyclists share offroad pavement space with pedestrians,is unnacceptable to them.They also want a double standards system of road use enforcement compared to motor traffic such as in the case of their views related to speed and stopping,responsibility regarding accidents,and responsibilty towards the compulsory use of shared cycleways/walkways.You only need to see the aims of groups like re claim the streets and critical mass to realise that.While anyone who dares to disagree with the arrogant zb’s is to be ignored in their view.

mickyblue:

Boomerang Dave:
The thing is - YOU DO NOT see the Dutch system being used everyday in Britain. That is my point.

With reference to the cyclist trapped between the bus and the pickup - in a Dutch style cycle lane, that would not have happened.

Look at this another way. Truck runs over a cyclist. Truck driver is arrested, charged with manslaughter - sent to prison - licence removed - out of prison - out of work.

That scenario cannot happen if the cyclist is in a Dutch design cycle lane. If the cycle lane is there - the trucker could easily produce a defence against any case brought against him/her.

What you have done is what I predicted and produced bad comparisons.

EDITED TO ADD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxEquA2dVoU

Don’t know about you, but he sort of put himself in that position by undertaking him whilst the truck was moving, but on the other hand, the driver should have seen him as the cyclist is now in front

The driver did see him or he wouldn’t be here now and the driver left him as much room when he overtook him as the cyclist seemed happy enough with when the cyclist undertook the truck ( ignoring the provided cycleway remember ) and other vehicles,prior to then deliberately falling off it to make a bs critical mass type point when the truck re passed him.

mickyblue:
Don’t know about you, but he sort of put himself in that position by undertaking him whilst the truck was moving, but on the other hand, the driver should have seen him as the cyclist is now in front

When he did the undertake manoeuvre he was in a so called cycle lane passing mainly stationary or slow moving vehicles - the cycle lane abruptly comes to an end - graphically describing what I have been saying continuously throughout this whole thread - the bike lanes in the UK are bloody dangerous to get in and out of - hence why a lot of cyclists don’t use them.

There was nothing wrong with the way the cyclist in this instance was riding - the truck driver was entirely to blame. The cyclist is meant to keep moving in cycle lanes - that is not the same as undertaking on the main highway.

That said, I’d have been more than cautious and probably held back. That is not to absolve the truck driver in any way - or portion blame on the bike rider.

Boomerang Dave:

mickyblue:
Don’t know about you, but he sort of put himself in that position by undertaking him whilst the truck was moving, but on the other hand, the driver should have seen him as the cyclist is now in front

When he did the undertake manoeuvre he was in a so called cycle lane passing mainly stationary or slow moving vehicles - the cycle lane abruptly comes to an end - graphically describing what I have been saying continuously throughout this whole thread - the bike lanes in the UK are bloody dangerous to get in and out of - hence why a lot of cyclists don’t use them.

There was nothing wrong with the way the cyclist in this instance was riding - the truck driver was entirely to blame. The cyclist is meant to keep moving in cycle lanes - that is not the same as undertaking on the main highway.

That said, I’d have been more than cautious and probably held back. That is not to absolve the truck driver in any way - or portion blame on the bike rider.

Obviously in your bs biased opinion.The fact is the cycle lane is based on the same bs double standards thinking as cyclists use ( no doubt by cyclists in the council for cyclists ) in the case of undertaking vehicles with very little clearance space while at the same time wanting a mile left in clearance when vehicles overtake cyclists. :unamused:

In addition to which you’ve also conveniently/selectively forgotten the issue of the cyclist ignoring the provided cycleway diverting him onto the pavement through the whole of the pinch point in question thereby avoiding the whole ‘issue’ which took place with the truck at that point.Which ‘should’ of course be made compulsory but no surprise the cyclists don’t want that so as they can continue their aims of victimising drivers in their hypocritical bs critical mass type crusade. :imp:

Our cyclist was riding very fast for an urban envirnoment ,its possible that the tipper driver had no idea of his presence.I would have ridden further out in the road so as to be seen and block dangerous overtaking moves.

alamcculloch:
Our cyclist was riding very fast for an urban envirnoment ,its possible that the tipper driver had no idea of his presence.I would have ridden further out in the road so as to be seen and block dangerous overtaking moves.

Trust me the tipper driver knew exactly what the cyclist was doing or the idiot wouldn’t be here to have posted the video.

Why would that be considered as a dangerous overtaking move,presumably based on the clearance left at the cyclists side ?,assuming that the cyclist’s undertaking move/s on traffic previously to that seems to be considered as not dangerous considering that the clearance between the cyclist and traffic being undertaken,including the truck,was the same in both cases.No doubt it’s just yet more bs double standards by cyclists like the contradiction in saying that they want to be seperated from motor traffic while at the same time saying that they want to stay on the roads which is actually what caused the problem in this case. :unamused:

No surprise you also seem to have conveniently/selectively overlooked that issue of the cyclist ignoring the cycleway directing the idiot off the road and onto the pavement which of course was then wide enough and actually formed the cycleway,which the ■■■■■■ on the bike should have been following,according to the signs for the shared cycleway/pedestrian way,from that point on past the bus stop in order to have avoided the non ‘issue’ with the truck anyway.Instead of which the cyclist decided that he was too important to use the cycleway provided and stayed on the road instead.Which seems to contradict the bs from the cyclist lobby that they want segregation from motor traffic.While your agenda seems the same in being instead of trying to fix the problems by getting the cyclists off the road you seem to be saying let’s have cyclists running around in the middle of the road making it virtually impossible for traffic to overtake them safely.

Which would obviously increase casualty rates,including head on crashes,between motor vehicles.That’s assuming that drivers,who’ve been caught out under that regime,would want to take that head on crash option rather that just moving back in on the cyclist being overtaken to avoid it under your ideas. :unamused:

However going by your logic the same could be said about the tipper and car drivers in the video in that they should have moved over into the cycle lane to block a dangerous undertaking move by the cyclist.No doubt the double standards of the cycling lobby would go as far as to say that such a move would be a case of obstructing the cyclist regardless of the clearance space required which seems to vary depending on wether it suits the cyclist cause in the case of undertaking traffic with very little clearance,or not in the case of motor vehicles overtaking cyclists when the amount of clearance required mysteriously seems to change/increase for some reason. :imp:.

Ironically in this case one of the cycling supporters,who supposedly wants segregation for cyclists from road traffic and is moaning about cyclists being supposedly overtaken dangerously by trucks,has posted an example to support his case which actually destroys it and proves mine.In that cyclists are generally just a bunch of raving re claim the streets supporters who are acting in a suicidal way on the roads in order to further their bs cause.Which in reality is just one of victimising motor traffic drivers on the roads when the zb’s have been given the provision to get them off the roads in order to provide them with the segregation which they say they want but which they obviously in truth don’t.While also showing the double standards bs applied by cyclists in respect of the amount of clearance,which they say they want,when being overtaken by vehicles,but which they obviously choose to reduce by a massive margin,on a selective basis,when they want to undertake those same vehicles themsleves. :imp:

It might just be me but could it be coincidence that he fell of at the exact time he rode of the drain on the side of the road?

nickyboy:
It might just be me but could it be coincidence that he fell of at the exact time he rode of the drain on the side of the road?

Certainly, the drain won’t have helped, but clearly the rider is put in grave danger by the truck. You can see the cycle lane comes to an abrupt end near the pedestrian lights where there is an option for the rider to divert to the left - should the cyclist wish to do so, these are not compulsory, but advisable for lesser experienced riders.

When I learnt to drive a car, I was taught to allow at least the width of a car when passing cyclists - sufficient room for them to fall off. The truck driver in this example is clearly far too close to the cyclist and is supposed to be the professional and is indeed responsible for the problem. I wouldn’t hesitate in suspending that driver’s HGV, pending re-training.

If I owned that truck and could identify the driver, I would sack the driver without hesitation.

Boomerang Dave:
Certainly, the drain won’t have helped, but clearly the rider is put in grave danger by the truck. You can see the cycle lane comes to an abrupt end near the pedestrian lights where there is an option for the rider to divert to the left - should the cyclist wish to do so, these are not compulsory, but advisable for lesser experienced riders.

When I learnt to drive a car, I was taught to allow at least the width of a car when passing cyclists - sufficient room for them to fall off. The truck driver in this example is clearly far too close to the cyclist and is supposed to be the professional and is indeed responsible for the problem. I wouldn’t hesitate in suspending that driver’s HGV, pending re-training.

If I owned that truck and could identify the driver, I would sack the driver without hesitation.

I agree with you entirely. The HGV driver is guilty of severely dangerous driving and should not be on the road!

Boomerang Dave:

nickyboy:
It might just be me but could it be coincidence that he fell of at the exact time he rode of the drain on the side of the road?

Certainly, the drain won’t have helped, but clearly the rider is put in grave danger by the truck. You can see the cycle lane comes to an abrupt end near the pedestrian lights where there is an option for the rider to divert to the left - should the cyclist wish to do so, these are not compulsory, but advisable for lesser experienced riders.

When I learnt to drive a car, I was taught to allow at least the width of a car when passing cyclists - sufficient room for them to fall off. The truck driver in this example is clearly far too close to the cyclist and is supposed to be the professional and is indeed responsible for the problem. I wouldn’t hesitate in suspending that driver’s HGV, pending re-training.

If I owned that truck and could identify the driver, I would sack the driver without hesitation.

Watch the video again. It’s clear the cyclist was still in his blind spot and whilst he was undertaking a moving HGV a motorcyclist was overtaking him

Boomerang Dave:

nickyboy:
It might just be me but could it be coincidence that he fell of at the exact time he rode of the drain on the side of the road?

Certainly, the drain won’t have helped, but clearly the rider is put in grave danger by the truck. You can see the cycle lane comes to an abrupt end near the pedestrian lights where there is an option for the rider to divert to the left - should the cyclist wish to do so, these are not compulsory, but advisable for lesser experienced riders.

When I learnt to drive a car, I was taught to allow at least the width of a car when passing cyclists - sufficient room for them to fall off. The truck driver in this example is clearly far too close to the cyclist and is supposed to be the professional and is indeed responsible for the problem. I wouldn’t hesitate in suspending that driver’s HGV, pending re-training.

If I owned that truck and could identify the driver, I would sack the driver without hesitation.

So now all your bs about wanting segregation of cyclists from motor traffic suddenly turns into it being ‘optional’ and more ‘experienced’ cyclists can stay on the roads.The fact is in this case the cyclist showed the typical double standards of the raving critical mass cycling lobby in firstly the amount of clearance that they’re shouting about wanting in the case of being over taken by motor vehicles as opposed to the amount of clearance thay seem to be happy with when they undertake them which suddenly seems to reduce for some selective reason.

While in the case of where the so called bs ‘incident’ took place the stupid zb shouldn’t even have been on the road anyway and should have been on the pavement using the offroad cycle way provided.If I was the truck’s owner I’d have been apologising to the driver for having to put him into such situations because of the nature of the work while getting onto the council and the government as to why offroad cycleways aren’t being made compulsory.

As for your comments your hypocricy seems obvious in the case of saying that ‘if’ you had your bs Dutch type regime the driver would have a defence because the cyclist was off the marked cycleway.While in this case that suddenly changes because the cyclist is supposedly ‘experienced’ and only non ‘experienced’ cyclists need to bother with keeping safe by using the marked offroad provision they’ve been provided with to keep away from trucks etc because such provision is optional not compulsory.Which in reality is just a typical critical mass type blatant form of blackmail being used to get what they want,in the form of Dutch style removal of road space from motor traffic and giving it over to cyclists with drivers being used as the pawns and victims in the attempt.:unamused:

mickyblue:

Boomerang Dave:

nickyboy:
It might just be me but could it be coincidence that he fell of at the exact time he rode of the drain on the side of the road?

Certainly, the drain won’t have helped, but clearly the rider is put in grave danger by the truck. You can see the cycle lane comes to an abrupt end near the pedestrian lights where there is an option for the rider to divert to the left - should the cyclist wish to do so, these are not compulsory, but advisable for lesser experienced riders.

When I learnt to drive a car, I was taught to allow at least the width of a car when passing cyclists - sufficient room for them to fall off. The truck driver in this example is clearly far too close to the cyclist and is supposed to be the professional and is indeed responsible for the problem. I wouldn’t hesitate in suspending that driver’s HGV, pending re-training.

If I owned that truck and could identify the driver, I would sack the driver without hesitation.

Watch the video again. It’s clear the cyclist was still in his blind spot and whilst he was undertaking a moving HGV a motorcyclist was overtaking him

Watch the video again taking note of all the road markings and signage.The stupid zb cyclist shouldn’t even have been on the road at that point and should have been on the pavement by the bus stop.Boomerang Dave’s argument is just based on a bs typical raving cyclists can do no wrong position and that cyclists should always have priority on the roads even when they’ve been directed not to use them.No surprise that their cronies in the government have made it so that such direction is only optional whereas it ‘should be’ compulsory.

mickyblue:

Boomerang Dave:

nickyboy:
It might just be me but could it be coincidence that he fell of at the exact time he rode of the drain on the side of the road?

Certainly, the drain won’t have helped, but clearly the rider is put in grave danger by the truck. You can see the cycle lane comes to an abrupt end near the pedestrian lights where there is an option for the rider to divert to the left - should the cyclist wish to do so, these are not compulsory, but advisable for lesser experienced riders.

When I learnt to drive a car, I was taught to allow at least the width of a car when passing cyclists - sufficient room for them to fall off. The truck driver in this example is clearly far too close to the cyclist and is supposed to be the professional and is indeed responsible for the problem. I wouldn’t hesitate in suspending that driver’s HGV, pending re-training.

If I owned that truck and could identify the driver, I would sack the driver without hesitation.

Watch the video again. It’s clear the cyclist was still in his blind spot and whilst he was undertaking a moving HGV a motorcyclist was overtaking him

Micky,

I’ve taken another look, the HGV driver is in the wrong - your description doesn’t match the facts.

He passes the truck in the cycle lane, the truck has rear and downward facing mirrors, the truck driver should always be aware of the cycle lane and have complete awareness of what is going on in it.

Both of the motorcyclists have more than cleared the front of the truck after passing on the right (at the point of the incident).

I’ll stick with what I have said all along - that this could not have happened with a separate Dutch style cycle lane. Nothing changes that.

Boomerang Dave:

mickyblue:

Boomerang Dave:

nickyboy:
It might just be me but could it be coincidence that he fell of at the exact time he rode of the drain on the side of the road?

Certainly, the drain won’t have helped, but clearly the rider is put in grave danger by the truck. You can see the cycle lane comes to an abrupt end near the pedestrian lights where there is an option for the rider to divert to the left - should the cyclist wish to do so, these are not compulsory, but advisable for lesser experienced riders.

When I learnt to drive a car, I was taught to allow at least the width of a car when passing cyclists - sufficient room for them to fall off. The truck driver in this example is clearly far too close to the cyclist and is supposed to be the professional and is indeed responsible for the problem. I wouldn’t hesitate in suspending that driver’s HGV, pending re-training.

If I owned that truck and could identify the driver, I would sack the driver without hesitation.

Watch the video again. It’s clear the cyclist was still in his blind spot and whilst he was undertaking a moving HGV a motorcyclist was overtaking him

Micky,

I’ve taken another look, the HGV driver is in the wrong - your description doesn’t match the facts.

He passes the truck in the cycle lane, the truck has rear and downward facing mirrors, the truck driver should always be aware of the cycle lane and have complete awareness of what is going on in it.

Both of the motorcyclists have more than cleared the front of the truck after passing on the right at the point of the incident.

I’ll stick with what I have said all along - that this could not have happened with a separate Dutch style cycle lane. Nothing changes that.

No surprise that you’re all for the cycle lane when it suits you even though the clearance available is about the same at that point as where the truck re passed the cyclist while not being so keen on cycleways where they play there most valuable role in segregating cyclists from motor vehicle traffic.Then they suddenly conveniently become ‘optional’ in your view.If I was Rikki I’d throw you and your bs arguments off here being that you’re an obious typical type of raving critical mass zb stirrer with your sack the driver comments. :imp:

So your saying, the cyclist who has no reguards for his safety goes up the inside of a truck, very close to him and then get’s taken down seconds later. shouldn’t take some of the blame?

Cyclists are quick to cry when they overtaken very closely but are willing to undertake vehicles very close, cannot have it both ways

mickyblue:
So your saying, the cyclist who has no reguards for his safety goes up the inside of a truck, very close to him and then get’s taken down seconds later. shouldn’t take some of the blame?

Where have I said that?

But he was taken down - on that we appear to agree!

mickyblue:
Cyclists are quick to cry when they overtaken very closely but are willing to undertake vehicles very close, cannot have it both ways

I’ve addressed this already - but once again - from the top… he’s in a cycle lane (yes a badly designed one) he’s supposed to make normal progress in the cycle lane - which he does - passing (not undertaking) vehicles to his right that are moving slower than him. The (badly designed) cycle lane abruptly comes to an end, the lorry driver then causes the entire problem by being too close to the cyclist - accelerating past him and causing him to fall from his bike - probably because he’s crap at driving and wasn’t aware he was there, probably because he did know he was there, but just didn’t care.