Pleasssseee can someone explain the WTD to me and when it comes into play…
I understand driver hours/breaks etc but this is so confusing for me. Does it mean that if I start work at 6:00am that I can work/drive till 12:00pm if I have a 1/2 hour break■■?
LEYMANS TERMS PLEASE! LOL 
Firstly you should understand that tachograph regulations take precedence at all times.
All breaks for the WTD or RT(WT)R as it’s commonly called here also count for the driver breaks if they are appropriate and vice versa.
No worker should work more than 6 hours without a break of at least 15 minutes, so if you reach 6 hours working time (driving and other work) and have not had any driver breaks you should have a break of at least 15 minutes, this can also count as the first part of a split driving break.
We’ll get to the rest later but that’s something for you to think about for now 
You must not work more than 6 hours with out a break of at least 15 minutes.
For a shift with work of between 6 and 9 hours you need a total of 30 minutes break
For a shift with more than 9 hours work you need a total of 45 minutes break.
Driving and other work counts toward work but not breaks or POA.
If you start work at 06:00 you would need a WTD break by 12:00 latest.
If you started at 06:00 then took a 15 minute break from 09:00 to 09:15 you would then not need another WTD break until 15:15.
If you reach 4.5 hours driving before 6 hours work your tacho break will do for both tacho rules and WTD.
Alternatively, ignore all of the above and just stick to the tacho rules. that will mean you are legal for the WTD at least 95% of the time and nobody really bothers checking or enforcing the WTD anyway. That’s all I have done since the WTD came into being and I have never had a WTD infringement.
Thanks for that…Its alot clearer now. I think I will take your last piece of advise though & stick to the tacho rules as its easier to remember and Im not using all my driving hours in a day anyway!
Cheers 
Jtheraver:
Thanks for that…Its alot clearer now. I think I will take your last piece of advise though & stick to the tacho rules as its easier to remember and Im not using all my driving hours in a day anyway!Cheers
If by “stick to the tacho rules” you mean you will ignore the RT(WT)R then I would have to say that for what it’s worth in my opinion you’re a fool 
Whilst it’s true that VOSA don’t actively enforce the RT(WT)R many companies do and failing to comply with some parts of the working time regulations is likely to lead to infringements (read some of the posts here for confirmation of this), furthermore failing to comply with the 6 hour rule could potentially give an enforcement officer a reason to dig deeper into your records at a roadside check, it is after-all the only part of the RT(WT)R that can easily be checked at the roadside, and yes I’m aware that some people have been stopped and nothing has been said about not having the correct breaks before exceeding 6 hours.
I also have to say that to say you wont bother with a particular set of regulations simply because you find other things easier to remember is slightly bizarre in my opinion, how will you know what you can get away with if you have no idea what the regulations say ?, and the fact that you seem to think that not using your maximum daily driving hours will in any way effect the working time regulations shows that you really do not understand what it is that you’re going to ignore.
I mean no offence to anyone in this post, just expressing a personal opinion for what it’s worth, accept it or disregard and throw it away … your choice, and probably eventually your infringements 
Coffeeholic:
Alternatively, ignore all of the above and just stick to the tacho rules. that will mean you are legal for the WTD at least 95% of the time and nobody really bothers checking or enforcing the WTD anyway. That’s all I have done since the WTD came into being and I have never had a WTD infringement.
I would think you’ve probably been lucky then because on the couple of DHL contracts I’ve worked on they’ve been quite strict on most aspects of the regulations and that includes the working time regulations
Wow…I am now more confused & anxious as i certainly dont want to incure any infringements or be a fool for that matter!
What I meant by “sticking to tacho rules” was that if I start at 6:00am, do 4.5hrs driving time then take a 45minute break I am not going to have a problem…or will I?
I appreciate that I should know this info…I think a tacho session is on the cards!
Jtheraver:
What I meant by “sticking to tacho rules” was that if I start at 6:00am, do 4.5hrs driving time then take a 45minute break I am not going to have a problem…or will I?
The working time regulations state that you should not work more than 6 hours without a break of at least 15 minutes, so if you start at 06:00 you should have had a 15 minute break no later than 12:00, if you’ve had a 45 minute driving break in this time you’re fine.
Remember that if you wish to comply with the 6 hour rule you should not work more than 6 hours at any time without a 15 minute break so for instance if you finished your 45 minute break at 12:45 you would need another 15 minute break no later than 18:45.
By the way I wasn’t suggesting that you’re a fool but I do find this attitude that some people have that it’s OK to ignore anything that’s not understood to be a little foolish
You’ll find the answers to most questions about the working time regulations in these forums.
Good luck
For whats its worth company infringements mean jackzb most of the time, the infringements to worry about are the ones that cost you money, ie drivers hours and rest periods
We have all worked for DHL and their infringements are not worth the paper they are written on, if you are not sure of the RTD regulations, your line manager at DHL should be explaining them and mentoring you.
When VOSA say publicly that they are more interested in the 561 regulations than enforcing the RTD. I think I would concentrate on what VOSA want.
tachograph:
Coffeeholic:
Alternatively, ignore all of the above and just stick to the tacho rules. that will mean you are legal for the WTD at least 95% of the time and nobody really bothers checking or enforcing the WTD anyway. That’s all I have done since the WTD came into being and I have never had a WTD infringement.I would think you’ve probably been lucky then because on the couple of DHL contracts I’ve worked on they’ve been quite strict on most aspects of the regulations and that includes the working time regulations
Nothing to do with luck. Our card are analysed for both tacho and WTD infringements but the way I run, or used to run because it’s changed now, the tacho rules to suit me the WTD is taken care of. I am never going to do six hours work without a break, and not because it’s the WTD limit but simply because it’s common sense and I am too lazy and I will need coffee. I also don’t really give a crap about company infringements, they are meaningless.
I have to worry about it even less now as I haven’t booked any break on my card for over two weeks now and that should remain the same for the coming weeks.
Start 19:15
15 - 20 minutes other work
Around 4 hours POA
10 minutes other work
3.75 - 4 hours driving
15 minutes other work.
Go home.
No 4,5 hours, no 6 hours, no break required and legal for both sets of rules. Happy days.
Coffeeholic:
tachograph:
Coffeeholic:
Alternatively, ignore all of the above and just stick to the tacho rules. that will mean you are legal for the WTD at least 95% of the time and nobody really bothers checking or enforcing the WTD anyway. That’s all I have done since the WTD came into being and I have never had a WTD infringement.I would think you’ve probably been lucky then because on the couple of DHL contracts I’ve worked on they’ve been quite strict on most aspects of the regulations and that includes the working time regulations
Nothing to do with luck. Our card are analysed for both tacho and WTD infringements but the way I run, or used to run because it’s changed now, the tacho rules to suit me the WTD is taken care of. I am never going to do six hours work without a break, and not because it’s the WTD limit but simply because it’s common sense and I am too lazy and I will need coffee. I also don’t really give a crap about company infringements, they are meaningless.
I have to worry about it even less now as I haven’t booked any break on my card for over two weeks now and that should remain the same for the coming weeks.
Start 19:15
15 - 20 minutes other work
Around 4 hours POA
10 minutes other work
3.75 - 4 hours driving
15 minutes other work.
Go home.
No 4,5 hours, no 6 hours, no break required and legal for both sets of rules. Happy days.
Why does it need double manning, has Jimbob lost his map?
Thanks for all the advise. I do believe its sinking in now! 
Wheel Nut:
We have all worked for DHL and their infringements are not worth the paper they are written on, if you are not sure of the RTD regulations, your line manager at DHL should be explaining them and mentoring you.
Which is exactly what infringements are for, to ensure you know what you’re doing wrong and can start doing it right
Wheel Nut:
When VOSA say publicly that they are more interested in the 561 regulations than enforcing the RTD. I think I would concentrate on what VOSA want.
I agree but as far as I’m aware VOSA have never said that all their people will always ignore all aspects of the working time regulations.
Wheel Nut:
For whats its worth company infringements mean jackzb most of the time
Coffeeholic:
I also don’t really give a crap about company infringements, they are meaningless
Like you I also don’t give a [zb] about infringements because like you I don’t get any
They may be meaningless to most of us most of the time but then I suspect most of us haven’t had enough infringements to bother about, they are in fact the way most companies choose to apply their legal requirement to make sure the driver is aware of what he/she is doing wrong.
Perpetual infringements can lead to disciplinary action on some companies.
But to be honest whether infringements are meaningless or not I think you’ll find that most drivers don’t want them and would prefer to know what they’re doing so they can avoid them.
Wheel Nut:
Coffeeholic:
tachograph:
Coffeeholic:
Alternatively, ignore all of the above and just stick to the tacho rules. that will mean you are legal for the WTD at least 95% of the time and nobody really bothers checking or enforcing the WTD anyway. That’s all I have done since the WTD came into being and I have never had a WTD infringement.I would think you’ve probably been lucky then because on the couple of DHL contracts I’ve worked on they’ve been quite strict on most aspects of the regulations and that includes the working time regulations
Nothing to do with luck. Our card are analysed for both tacho and WTD infringements but the way I run, or used to run because it’s changed now, the tacho rules to suit me the WTD is taken care of. I am never going to do six hours work without a break, and not because it’s the WTD limit but simply because it’s common sense and I am too lazy and I will need coffee. I also don’t really give a crap about company infringements, they are meaningless.
I have to worry about it even less now as I haven’t booked any break on my card for over two weeks now and that should remain the same for the coming weeks.
Start 19:15
15 - 20 minutes other work
Around 4 hours POA
10 minutes other work
3.75 - 4 hours driving
15 minutes other work.
Go home.
No 4,5 hours, no 6 hours, no break required and legal for both sets of rules. Happy days.
Why does it need double manning, has Jimbob lost his map?
Timings. We are booked to leave Colney at 20:00, but usually get away a little early and we have to be back by 04:00, or as close as possible, because the load gets processed and put onto trailers heading for the mainland and Dublin. One driver can’t do it with having to take a 45 minute break so they double man it. There are two trucks doing the same run with the same timings, we meet the Edinburgh truck and the others meet Glasgow.
tachograph:
Wheel Nut:
For whats its worth company infringements mean jackzb most of the timeCoffeeholic:
I also don’t really give a crap about company infringements, they are meaninglessLike you I also don’t give a [zb] about infringements because like you I don’t get any
I didn’t say I don’t get infringements, I do sometimes but not WTD ones.
tachograph:
They may be meaningless to most of us most of the time but then I suspect most of us haven’t had enough infringements to bother about, they are in fact the way most companies choose to apply their legal requirement to make sure the driver is aware of what he/she is doing wrong.Perpetual infringements can lead to disciplinary action on some companies.
Again that doesn’t bother me, I would just walk if they start that game.
tachograph:
But to be honest whether infringements are meaningless or not I think you’ll find that most drivers don’t want them and would prefer to know what they’re doing so they can avoid them.
I try to avoid them by sticking to the tacho rules but sometimes you can’t, delayed on the motorway due to an accident for instance or no available parking when you start looking when you near 4.5 hours or the end of your day, and I really don’t care if I get one or not. It’s just a bit of paper to sign and move on, life is too short to spend it worrying about the little things.
Jtheraver:
Thanks for that…Its alot clearer now. I think I will take your last piece of advise though & stick to the tacho rules as its easier to remember and Im not using all my driving hours in a day anyway!Cheers
That’s what I would do. If you are not using all your driving hours you aren’t likely to be getting near the 48 hour maximum working weekly average. Maybe just have a 15 minute break, which will do for tacho and WTD, within the first 4 or 5 hours of your shift and you will be fine.
roadtransport.com/Articles/2 … uliers.htm
Still no prosecutions under working time regs for hauliers
Friday 22 April 2011 13:00
Six years after the introduction of the working time regulations and still no transport company has been prosecuted for breaches of the regulations.
In the latest available results, VOSA says it carried out 565 visits to operators’ premises in the third quarter of 2010, resulting in advice being given to 79 operators. No improvement notices were issued, which is the next stage if advice is ignored. “We have not prosecuted anyone under the regulations, preferring to prosecute for drivers’ hours offences where found,” says a VOSA spokesman.
The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations came into force in April 2005 as part of the Working Time Directive (WTD), which applies to all industry sectors, and limit average working time to 48 hours a week. They also require records to be kept for two years.
“There was no need for it and we have called for one set of regulations and not two,” says Jack Semple, director of policy at the Road Haulage Association. “It’s a bad law. The drivers’ hours rules take precedence over the WTD.”
Still no prosecutions under working time regs for hauliers
Friday 22 April 2011 13:00
Six years after the introduction of the working time regulations and still no transport company has been prosecuted for breaches of the regulations.
In the latest available results, VOSA says it carried out 565 visits to operators’ premises in the third quarter of 2010, resulting in advice being given to 79 operators. No improvement notices were issued, which is the next stage if advice is ignored. “We have not prosecuted anyone under the regulations, preferring to prosecute for drivers’ hours offences where found,” says a VOSA spokesman.
The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations came into force in April 2005 as part of the Working Time Directive (WTD), which applies to all industry sectors, and limit average working time to 48 hours a week. They also require records to be kept for two years.
“There was no need for it and we have called for one set of regulations and not two,” says Jack Semple, director of policy at the Road Haulage Association. “It’s a bad law. The drivers’ hours rules take precedence over the WTD.”
There you go, no real point in worrying about the WTD. Worst you will get is a bit of a bollocking. Just stick to the tacho rules as best as you can and the job’s a good 'un.
The information ROG has posted is old news that’s been around for a little while.
A new driver on a new job as I believe Jtheraver is would, in my opinion at least, be foolish to disregard any regulations, at-least until he finds out how strict the company are and how safe his job is.
tachograph:
The information ROG has posted is old news that’s been around for a little while.
April 2011
Wheel Nut:
tachograph:
The information ROG has posted is old news that’s been around for a little while.April 2011
Well I’d say 3 months is a little while