Wilk:
I would like to make sure what the law says:
The law says that I can reduce my daily rest three times between my two weekly rest days - reduced one means more than 9 but less than 11 hours.
The law does not say that I can have three shifts lasting 13-15 hours between my two weekly rest days.
The length of shift is not defined anywhere in the regulations, only the amount of rest required within a 24-hour period, which begins when you resume work after a rest period. The 13 and 15 hours is arrived at from those rest requirements.
You must have 11 continous hours rest in the 24-hour period so 24 - 11 = 13 hours maximum shift.
Three times between weekly rest periods you may reduce that rest requirement to a minimum of 9 continous hours. So, 24 - 9 = 15 hours maximum shift.
You do over 13 hours in a shift, even by 1 minute and you’ve used one of your allowed reductions. 24 - 13:01 = 10:59, less than 11 so it’s a reduced rest.
But you don’t have to do over 13 hours to use a reduced rest; start at 06:00 and finish at 14:00 then start again at 23:00, that’s an 8 hour shift but you’ve used a reduced rest period. Therefore now only have two opportunity to work a shift of more than 13 hours between your weekly rest periods.
One thing to be very careful of when you think in terms of 13 and 15 hour shifts/days is on your last day before your weekly rest you still must adhere to the rest requirements in the 24-hour period. Drivers have been caught out by using their three reduced rest periods but then working to 15 hours on the last day of their week think it’s okay because they are going onto a weekly rest period. However, the daily rest hours are still required to fall within the 24-hour period, you extend the daily rest period into the weekly rest and the first 9-11 hours of the weekly rest are the required daily rest.
Just need to make sure as I had a low drop in the continuity of the work.
I had a break between 17:30 on Sunday and 04:15 on Thursday - it is 82 hours and 45 minutes (much more than regular weekly rest). Then worked on Thursday, next day finished at 15:30. Saturday off so I have got another break between 15:30 on Friday and 00:30 on Sunday. It is 33 hours. Can I classify these 33 hours as reduced weekly rest, work 6 days and have regular weekly rest + missing hours from previous week?
Wilk:
Just need to make sure as I had a low drop in the continuity of the work.
I had a break between 17:30 on Sunday and 04:15 on Thursday - it is 82 hours and 45 minutes (much more than regular weekly rest). Then worked on Thursday, next day finished at 15:30. Saturday off so I have got another break between 15:30 on Friday and 00:30 on Sunday. It is 33 hours. Can I classify these 33 hours as reduced weekly rest, work 6 days and have regular weekly rest + missing hours from previous week?
The 82 hours can be used as 45 regular weekly rest for the week ending on that Sunday and 37 hours reduced weekly rest for the week starting on the Monday leaving 8 to be paid back
The 33 hours off can be used as a 24 hour reduced weekly rest for the same week as the 37 hours leaving 9 hours over which can be used to pay back the 8 hours - the 24 reduced will not need any paying back because it is an extra for the same week
That 24 will reset the 144 hour (6x24 hours) clock so the next regular 45 weekly rest must start by 00.30 on saturday
We all hate newbies (im a newbie) asking a question without first checking if its already been answered…
So i found myself here trying to understand the 6hr WTD… having just got my head around drivers times for my forthcoming theory test…
I usually find hearing it from experienced drivers is much more honest and straight forward than trying to decipher confusing government articles…
And my brain has just turned to mush at the amount of ■■■■ good drivers who themselves are as wise as i am on this…
And ive now managed to confuse myself even more lol…
Thomas77:
We all hate newbies (im a newbie) asking a question without first checking if its already been answered…
So i found myself here trying to understand the 6hr WTD… having just got my head around drivers times for my forthcoming theory test…
I usually find hearing it from experienced drivers is much more honest and straight forward than trying to decipher confusing government articles…
And my brain has just turned to mush at the amount of ■■■■ good drivers who themselves are as wise as i am on this…
And ive now managed to confuse myself even more lol…
Im tired…i need sleep :-S
The tacho regs and the RTD regs work alongside each other but the authorities have not been bothered about the RTD for many years so its some companies which issue infringements
Breaks can count for both but the rules for the driving time breaks take preference
RTD breaks refers to the work time done within a shift in the same way that tacho reg breaks refer to the driving time done in a shift
Sorry just trying to clarify.
So if i start work at
8am
other work until 9am
Drive for 4.5hrs (time now 1.30pm)
Take 45mins rest (as per drivers hours) (time now 2.15pm)
Total work time 6.15 hrs
Total rest 45 mins
does my 45 mins driver rest also cover my 15mins required wtd rest??
Thomas77:
does my 45 mins driver rest also cover my 15mins required wtd rest??
Yes it does, driving breaks also count as breaks for the RT(WT)R and vice versa where the breaks are appropriate for a driving break.
However you would require another 15 minute break before going over six hours working time from the end of the 45 minute break.
gottcha!!
Thanks for the patience with a newbie
So ya only really need to keep a close eye on this if your doing alot of (other work) (poa) loading, tipping etc
seems alot more straight forward than i though, thank goodness for that, and thanks again
Assuming the driving time in a shift was over 4.5 hours then the 45 driving time break (or split into 15 + 30) will cover the RTD total shift break requirements but may not cover the 6 hour working time rule
That means the average driver having taken a 45 break only has to watch the 6 hour break rule of 15 mins
Basically you should never go over six hours working time before having a 15 minute break.
If your total working time in the shift is more than six hours but not more than nine hours you should have a total of at-least 30 minutes break/breaks.
At-least 15 minutes of this 30 minute break must be taken before exceeding six hours working time.
If your total working time in the shift is more than nine hours you should have a total of at-least 45 minutes break/breaks.
at-least 15 minutes of this 45 minute break must be taken before exceeding six hours working time, the rest of the 45 minute break can be taken at any time but at no point in the shift should you do more than six hours working time from the end of the previous break or rest period before having another 15 minute break.
WTD breaks can be taken in separate parts of at-least 15 minutes each, and as said in my previous post driving breaks also count as breaks for the RT(WT)R and vice versa where the breaks are appropriate for a driving break, also note that WTD breaks must interrupt the total working time so cannot be taken at the immediate start or end of a shift.
Hello. I am back as something went wrong with my tacho times at the end of this month. I wonder if it is infringement or not, however, if tachomaster says it is one so then it has to be
My last 5 days are the following:
Off Friday
Saturday: from 04:15 to 12:30 / break - 15 hours 45 minutes - shift of 8 h 15 m
Sunday: from 04:15 to 17:30 / break - 9 hours 30 minutes - shift of 13 h 15 m
Monday: from 03:00 to 18:00 / break - 10 hours 30 minutes - shift of 15 h
Tuesday: from 04:30 to 18:45 / break - 10 hours - shift of 14 h 15 m
Wednesday: from 04:45 to 18:00 - at the point of 17:45 it says ‘Insufficient Daily Rest’ - shift of 13 h 15 m
off now
I had 3 reduced daily rests between my two weekly rest days. You did mean that the law does not state about the length of the shift. What is the problem?
Wilk:
Hello. I am back as something went wrong with my tacho times at the end of this month. I wonder if it is infringement or not, however, if tachomaster says it is one so then it has to be
My last 5 days are the following:
Off Friday
Saturday: from 04:15 to 12:30 / break - 15 hours 45 minutes - shift of 8 h 15 m
Sunday: from 04:15 to 17:30 / break - 9 hours 30 minutes - shift of 13 h 15 m reduced daily rest
Monday: from 03:00 to 18:00 / break - 10 hours 30 minutes - shift of 15 h reduced daily rest
Tuesday: from 04:30 to 18:45 / break - 10 hours - shift of 14 h 15 m reduced daily rest
Wednesday: from 04:45 to 18:00 - at the point of 17:45 it says ‘Insufficient Daily Rest’ - shift of 13 h 15 m reduced daily rest
off now
I had 3 reduced daily rests between my two weekly rest days. You did mean that the law does not state about the length of the shift. What is the problem?
check what you’ve done …
How many 9hrs off in 24hrs have you had ? looks like 4 …
24hrs minus your daily rest
You’ve had four reduced daily rest periods not three.
The daily rest period has to fit into the period of 24 hours from the start of the shift, therefore unless you’re having a split daily rest period any shift of more than 13 hours has to be a reduced daily rest period because if your shift goes over 13 hours you cannot complete an 11 hour rest period within the 24 hour period.
Once I finished at 18:00 yesterday I started my regular weekly rest so how come I can have 4th reduced daily rest? Any more information on 24hrs period?
Wilk:
Once I finished at 18:00 yesterday I started my regular weekly rest so how come I can have 4th reduced daily rest? Any more information on 24hrs period?
Even though you’re starting a weekly rest period you still have to fit the daily rest period into the 24 hour period from the start of the shift, I know it sounds a bit daft but that’s the way it is I’m afraid.
Because you did a shift of 13 hours 15 minutes you only had a daily rest period of 10¾ hours.
A driver shall take daily and weekly rest periods.
Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the
previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall
have taken a new daily rest period.
If the portion of the daily rest period which falls within that
24 hour period is at least nine hours but less than 11 hours,
then the daily rest period in question shall be regarded as a
reduced daily rest period.
Wilk:
Once I finished at 18:00 yesterday I started my regular weekly rest so how come I can have 4th reduced daily rest? Any more information on 24hrs period?
Because of your confusion over shift length and daily rest periods I was 99.99% certain you would fall foul of this and in my post on Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:22 pm replying to you I tried to warn you and prevent it happening. I said:-
Coffeeholic:
One thing to be very careful of when you think in terms of 13 and 15 hour shifts/days is on your last day before your weekly rest you still must adhere to the rest requirements in the 24-hour period. Drivers have been caught out by using their three reduced rest periods but then working to 15 hours on the last day of their week think it’s okay because they are going onto a weekly rest period. However, the daily rest hours are still required to fall within the 24-hour period, you extend the daily rest period into the weekly rest and the first 9-11 hours of the weekly rest are the required daily rest.
I tried, I did my best to stop you getting an infringement but you didn’t read it did you?
