Wilk:
What I was told and found on the web that POA moves your 6-hour rule. If I start at 3 AM and have 3 hours of POA so that my WTD break is at 12 o’clock. Am I correct?
You need a break after 6 hours work. POA is not work, driving and other work is.
I believe it must be software’s fault. I had my 11 hours rest and started shift at midnight. I am aware that as long as I do not have any POA and breaks by 6 AM, my latest minute to have at least 15 minutes break is 6:00 AM (not 6:01). So by 6 AM I had 62 minutes of POA and 46 minutes of break (to comply with working time and reset my driving time). So that the tachograph wants to see on its clock accumulated time of:
I finished my shift at 12 o’clock. Tachomaster clears that day as ‘green’, however, it indicates WTD issue (Worked longer than 6 hours straight). Globofleet says ‘exceeded working time without break’.
Wilk:
I believe it must be software’s fault. I had my 11 hours rest and started shift at midnight. I am aware that as long as I do not have any POA and breaks by 6 AM, my latest minute to have at least 15 minutes break is 6:00 AM (not 6:01). So by 6 AM I had 62 minutes of POA and 46 minutes of break (to comply with working time and reset my driving time). So that the tachograph wants to see on its clock accumulated time of:
- up 6 hours of work (other work + driving) - at least 15 minutes - fulfilled
- between 6 and 9 hours - at least 30 minutes - fulfilled
- over 9 hours - at least 45 minutes - fulfilled
I finished my shift at 12 o’clock. Tachomaster clears that day as ‘green’, however, it indicates WTD issue (Worked longer than 6 hours straight). Globofleet says ‘exceeded working time without break’.
the tacho aint that good if you waited till 6 am I bet it was 6am an ? seconds in which case your over the 6hrs …
you really should have been on break before it hit 6hrs ie 5.59. on and when you went from wk to poa it may have recorded a few more seconds of work …
nick2008:
Wilk:
I believe it must be software’s fault. I had my 11 hours rest and started shift at midnight. I am aware that as long as I do not have any POA and breaks by 6 AM, my latest minute to have at least 15 minutes break is 6:00 AM (not 6:01). So by 6 AM I had 62 minutes of POA and 46 minutes of break (to comply with working time and reset my driving time). So that the tachograph wants to see on its clock accumulated time of:
- up 6 hours of work (other work + driving) - at least 15 minutes - fulfilled
- between 6 and 9 hours - at least 30 minutes - fulfilled
- over 9 hours - at least 45 minutes - fulfilled
I finished my shift at 12 o’clock. Tachomaster clears that day as ‘green’, however, it indicates WTD issue (Worked longer than 6 hours straight). Globofleet says ‘exceeded working time without break’.
the tacho aint that good if you waited till 6 am I bet it was 6am an ? seconds in which case your over the 6hrs …
you really should have been on break before it hit 6hrs ie 5.59. on and when you went from wk to poa it may have recorded a few more seconds of work …
I had 62 minutes of POA (before break) so it moved the 6-hour rule to 7:02 AM, anyway. I was on my 46 minutes break at 4:36 AM. After that I continued to do my drops and went back to the depot, finished my shift at 12 PM.
Wilk:
0
That spreadsheet is correct because 6 hours work has been exceeded without at least a 15 min break
This is quite common because many think the 6 hours work/break rule only applies to the first 6 hours whereas it actually applies to any 6 hour work period during a shift
So far this is the only day on my digi card that I have got such issue. It means that I made a mistake taking a break that time instead of POA in order to get back home earlier and avoid delivery lorries.
Summarising:
up to 6 hours of work - break
between 6 and 9 - break
over 9 - break
Is that what we should know?
Wilk:
- any 6 hours for example: start at 0:00, 45 minutes break at 6:00 and then I need to make sure that I have got at least 15 minutes break at 12:45.
in case if I do not exceed 4.5 hour driving time.
Wilk:
So far this is the only day on my digi card that I have got such issue. It means that I made a mistake taking a break that time instead of POA in order to get back home earlier and avoid delivery lorries.Summarising:
up to 6 hours of work - break
between 6 and 9 - break
over 9 - break
- any 6 hours for example: start at 0:00, 45 minutes break at 6:00 and then I need to make sure that I have got at least 15 minutes break at 12:45.
Is that what we should know?
At no point in the shift should you do more than six hours working time since the last break or rest period before starting a 15 minute break (commonly known as the six hour rule).
If your shift is between six and nine hour working time you must have a break/breaks of at-least 30 minutes, this includes any breaks you’ve had for the six hour rule.
If your total working time is more than nine hours you must have a break/breaks of at-least 45 minutes, again any breaks you have for the six hour rule are included in the 45 minutes.
Driving breaks also count for the working time regulation breaks, so if at some point in the shift have a 45 minute driving break you’ve had the total break needed for a shift of more than nine hours, however you must still comply with the six hour rule even if it means having more breaks.
For instance if you start work at 06:00 and don’t book any POA you must have a 15 minute break no later than 12:00, however suppose you have a 45 minute driving break at 11:00 to 11:45, you’ve had 45 minutes break which is enough WTD break for the entire shift but you must still have another 15 minute break no later than 17:45 if you intend to continue working past that time, this is because 17:45 would be six hours working time since your last break which ended at 11:45.
To be honest it’s best not to bother with POA unless you need to, neither POA or breaks count to wards working time so if you get paid for breaks it’s best to use break as it’s more likely to keep you out of trouble.
Wilk:
So far this is the only day on my digi card that I have got such issue. It means that I made a mistake taking a break that time instead of POA in order to get back home earlier and avoid delivery lorries.Summarising:
up to 6 hours of work - break
between 6 and 9 - break
over 9 - break
- any 6 hours for example: start at 0:00, 45 minutes break at 6:00 and then I need to make sure that I have got at least 15 minutes break at 12:45.
Is that what we should know?
You don’t need a break between 6 and 9 hours if you are going to be doing more than 9 hours work
It’s 30 minutes for 6-9 hours work OR 45 minutes for over 9, you use one or the other and you don’t apply both to the same shift.
Once you’ve had your 15 minutes or longer before exceeding 6 hours you are covered for the next 6 hours work or until just before the end if the shift, whichever comes first.
Your example starting at 00:00 and taking 45 minutes at 06:00 is correct and your next break would by latest 12:15
Wilk:
So far this is the only day on my digi card that I have got such issue. It means that I made a mistake taking a break that time instead of POA in order to get back home earlier and avoid delivery lorries.Summarising:
up to 6 hours of work - break
between 6 and 9 - break
over 9 - break
- any 6 hours for example: start at 0:00, 45 minutes break at 6:00 and then I need to make sure that I have got at least 15 minutes break at 12:45.
Is that what we should know?
No 9 hour 15 min break rule
This would be legal - assume no more than 4.5 hours driving done in shift
Start 0600
work til 1200
break 1200 - 1215
work 1215 - 1815
break 1815 - 1830
work 1830 - 2030
break 2030 - 2045
work 2045 - 2100
I still find it daft that you can drive an hgv (not more than 4.5 hrs) and possibly do manual labour for 12 hrs but as long as you’ve had a 15 minute break in the middle it’s perfectly legal but rather tiresome I’d have thought.
bald bloke:
I still find it daft that you can drive an hgv (not more than 4.5 hrs) and possibly do manual labour for 12 hrs but as long as you’ve had a 15 minute break in the middle it’s perfectly legal but rather tiresome I’d have thought.
The one I think is daft is you could do 1.5 hours other work then go straight onto a 4.5 hour drive and that’s legal. However, drive 4.5 hours and go straight onto Other Work and that isn’t legal; you would have to have 45 minutes break before the non driving work for it to be legal.
Even worse you could legally do 6 hours hard graft take a 15 minute break and drive for 4.5 hours. Do it the other way round and it would be illegal, again it would have to be 45 minutes break after the drive. I know which way round I think it would be more tiring.
Coffeeholic:
.Even worse you could legally do 6 hours hard graft take a 15 minute break and drive for 4.5 hours. .
Does this not breach Rule 3 
nick2008:
Coffeeholic:
.Even worse you could legally do 6 hours hard graft take a 15 minute break and drive for 4.5 hours. .
Does this not breach Rule 3
Only on a Monday, rest of the week it’s okay. 
Coffeeholic:
nick2008:
Coffeeholic:
.Even worse you could legally do 6 hours hard graft take a 15 minute break and drive for 4.5 hours. .
Does this not breach Rule 3
Only on a Monday, rest of the week it’s okay.
sod that 
What rule 3 and other ones are? Probably something new to me 
Wilk:
What rule 3 and other ones are? Probably something new to me
forum rules Wilk don’t worry Tachhograph was on about hard graft to me that’s a sware word 
nick2008:
Wilk:
What rule 3 and other ones are? Probably something new to meforum rules Wilk don’t worry Tachhograph was on about hard graft to me that’s a sware word
Why you blaming me, it wasn’t me that mentioned “[zb zb]”
I would like to make sure what the law says:
The law says that I can reduce my daily rest three times between my two weekly rest days - reduced one means more than 9 but less than 11 hours.
The law does not say that I can have three shifts lasting 13-15 hours between my two weekly rest days.