One of our drivers spent Saturday morning tipping and loading trailers between two local sites.
He started work at 06h and stopped for a 15min break at 1130h. During his shift that ended at 1230h (when he started his weekly rest) he did around 3 hours driving and the rest of the time on other work.
He was annoyed to find that he was given a WTD infringement for failing to take a 30 minute break. Who is right, the driver or the compliance clerk?
I look forward to your replies.
W
Not him.
Six and a half hour shift with 6 hours 15 minutes working time so he required a total of 30 minutes break for the WTD as he had working time of between 6 and 9 hours.
Coffeeholic:
Not him.Six and a half hour shift with 6 hours 15 minutes working time so he required a total of 30 minutes break for the WTD as he had working time of between 6 and 9 hours.
Thanks Coffee, I thought my mate was on shaky ground on this one.
W
Just so I can understand this correctly, in the above scenario imagine the driver thought that he would get finished by 12.15 but ran over by 15mins he would have had to take another 15 min break before his shift finished?
Imagine if he had only worked till 12.17 , he would then have to take a 15 at 12.15 then work 2 mins till shift end?
I’m assuming that rest can’t count as break
Daily rest cannot count as break and WTD breaks cannot lead directly into daily rest periods, so a minutes other work would need to be done after the break and before ending the shift.
Foxstein:
Just so I can understand this correctly, in the above scenario imagine the driver thought that he would get finished by 12.15 but ran over by 15mins he would have had to take another 15 min break before his shift finished?
Yes
Foxstein:
Imagine if he had only worked till 12.17 , he would then have to take a 15 at 12.15 then work 2 mins till shift end?
He could have taken it it 12:16 in that scenario, doesn’t have to be 12:15. If he had finished work at 12:14 he wouldn’t have needed any more break.
Foxstein:
I’m assuming that rest can’t count as break
Correct. WTD breaks must interrupt the working time and taking a break right at the end of a shift wouldn’t be interrupting it.
I didn’t think anyone else would bother to post on this thread.
If it is of any use, my mate thought by taking his 15min break before the end of his 6 hours work it would ‘wipe the slate clean’ and leave him free to work another six hours if he needed to.
The WTD rules are pretty clear that is not how it works. I just thought I would ask on TNUK to make sure I had understood the rules properly.
I know you didn’t ask Coffee but yes, it did help. So thanks again.
W
AlexWignall:
I didn’t think anyone else would bother to post on this thread.If it is of any use, my mate thought by taking his 15min break before the end of his 6 hours work it would ‘wipe the slate clean’ and leave him free to work another six hours if he needed to.
It would do, but only if the end of the shift did not come before the he again reaches 6 hours of work. He could have worked until 17:45 before requiring another break, assuming he did not reach 4.5 hours driving first, but his shift finished before that so he need the correct amount of break for work done in the shift.
Sorry Coffee, 
I know you’ve gone over this before but I cannot see how, ignoring any driving time in this, you can wipe the slate clean and work another 6 and, if I’ve got understood you correctly, only have another 15.
Pasted this from the board sticky from the VOSA link, which I know you don’t need to see again 
Breaks:
— Mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
— If your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes.
— If your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes.
— Breaks should be of at least 15 minutes’ duration.
I cannot see how after working 9 hours you don’t have to take 45 mins before that 9 is up as it clearly states it.
Foxstein:
Sorry Coffee,
I think you have misunderstood a little. I said he wouldn’t need another break until 17:45.
Pasted this from the board sticky from the VOSA link, which I know you don’t need to see again
Breaks:
— Mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
— If your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes.
— If your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes.
— Breaks should be of at least 15 minutes’ duration.
Foxstein:
I cannot see how after working 9 hours you don’t have to take 45 mins before that 9 is up as it clearly states it.
For working time between 6 and 9 hours you only need 30 minutes break, so for 9 hours it would be 30 minutes. The requirement for 45 minutes break would not start until you have exceeded 9 hours working time, so 9 hours and 1 minute.
Here is the actual wording from the regulations.
Breaks
7.–(1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
(2) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds six hours but does not exceed nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 30 minutes and interrupting that time.
(3) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 45 minutes and interrupting that period.
(4) Each break may be made up of separate periods of not less than 15 minutes each.
Where, in the above, does it say you must have 45 minutes before 9 hours is up? It doesn’t.
It states you must have break totalling 45 minutes for working time of over 9 hours, and interrupting that period, that period being the total amount of working time, not 9 hours. It does not say that break must be taken at the 9 hour point.
Take the following shifts as an example, there is less than 4.5 hours driving time in each.
Shift 1
Start of shift 06:00
6 hours working time.
15-minute break
6 hours working time.
20 minute break
1.5 hours working time
15 minute break
30 minutes working time.
End of shift 20:50.
For this shift Article 7, sections (1), (3) and (4) apply. Section (2) does not apply to this shift because there is more than 9 hours working time so it is ignored*.
Does the above shift satisfy the requirements of those sections of Article 7 that apply to it?
7(1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
Yes. It satisfies that as at no point in the shift was there more than 6 hours working time without a break.
7(3) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 45 minutes and interrupting that period.
Yes. It meets those requiremnets as we have 14 hours working time, the break is 50 minutes so is at least 45 minutes and it interrupts those 14 hours because there is working time before the first break and after the last.
(4) Each break may be made up of separate periods of not less than 15 minutes each
Yes. The 50 minute break is made up of 3 separate periods, each at least 15 minutes.
Shift 2
Start of shift 06:00
6 hours working time.
15-minute break
2 hours working time.
20 minute break
1 hour working time
End of shift 15:35.
For this shift Article 7, sections (1), (2) and (4) apply. Section (3) does not apply to this shift because there is not more than 9 hours working time so it is ignored*.
Does the above shift satisfy the requirements of those sections of Article 7 that apply to it?
7(1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
Yes. It satisfies that as at no point in the shift was there more than 6 hours working time without a break.
7(2) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds six hours but does not exceed nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 30 minutes and interrupting that period.
Yes. It meets those requiremnets as we did not exceed 9 hours working time, the break is 35 minutes so is at least 30 minutes and it interrupts those 9 hours because there is working time before the first break and after the last.
(4) Each break may be made up of separate periods of not less than 15 minutes each
Yes. The 35 minute break is made up of 2 separate periods, each at least 15 minutes.
All the requirements which apply to each shift are met and they are legal shifts for the WTD. Each break ‘wiped the 6 hour working clock clean’ and gave another 6 hours working time before another break was legally required, or before the end of the shift whichever came first.
*You only apply section (2) OR Section (3) to a shift depending which one applies to the amount of working time done, not both.
Regarding the WTD, has any other sector of the UK workforce actually had any agency nominated to check for compliancy? As far as I can see, the only sector being checked is the driving under tacho sector and surely, this would be discriminatory against one section of employment when the whole reason behind the entire directive is supposed to be to give everyone an equal life/work standard. (which incidentally, has reduced the work/life standard from when we were under the factories/employment acts!)
DoYouMeanMe?:
Regarding the WTD, has any other sector of the UK workforce actually had any agency nominated to check for compliancy?
Yes. The regular folks WTD has various agencies tasked with checking and enforcing some or all of it including, HSE, Local authority environmental health departments, CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) and the ORR (Office of Rail Regulation). As you were, no discrimination. 
Don’t you just hate it when a potentially good conspiracy theory falls flat on it’s arse?
DoYouMeanMe?:
As far as I can see, the only sector being checked is the driving under tacho sector
We aren’t really being checked though, very little enforcement is being done by VOSA and there have been no penalties applied.
Thanks Coffee did read it wrong, but I thought WTD was supposed to be in line with Drivers Hours so nine hours driving would have a 45 in.
Foxstein:
Thanks Coffee did read it wrong, but I thought WTD was supposed to be in line with Drivers Hours so nine hours driving would have a 45 in.
Nine hours driving would, but nine hours working time wouldn’t.
How can they check it though your Coffeeness. They don’t clock in and out of the canteen like a driver does with a tacho do they, so as long as it looks like it is rota’d in by the gaffa, it’s pretty much un-traceable. Take certain retail workers. One guy in a filling station, 6 - 2pm, on his jack. Can’t even go for a pee let alone lock up for a tea break.
DoYouMeanMe?:
How can they check it though your Coffeeness. They don’t clock in and out of the canteen like a driver does with a tacho do they, so as long as it looks like it is rota’d in by the gaffa, it’s pretty much un-traceable. Take certain retail workers. One guy in a filling station, 6 - 2pm, on his jack. Can’t even go for a pee let alone lock up for a tea break.
Probably the same way VOSA are checking ours, the don’t.
Coffeeholic:
DoYouMeanMe?:
How can they check it though your Coffeeness. They don’t clock in and out of the canteen like a driver does with a tacho do they, so as long as it looks like it is rota’d in by the gaffa, it’s pretty much un-traceable. Take certain retail workers. One guy in a filling station, 6 - 2pm, on his jack. Can’t even go for a pee let alone lock up for a tea break.Probably the same way VOSA are checking ours, the don’t.
Here you are, direct from a horses mouth
Offences under the working time regulations are in contravention of Regulation 17 of the WTD Regs 2005.
Drivers hours offences are generally under EC 561/2006.
WTD offences are normally guided towards the organisation of the drivers or employees rather than the drivers themselves.VOSA
Livingston GVTS,
Grange Road, Livingston, EH54 5DE.