Can someone give me some advice on the WTD. I’ve been double manning (for the 1st time ever this week) and have been driving for the 4.5 maximum limit before swapping driving and obviously my digi-card out of slot 1 to slot 2 with my colleague who then drives. I select rest on the slot 2, and as I’ve read here already the slot 2 tacho displays POA as soon as he drives away for his next 4.5 driving segment.
Now just to double check,
Firstly this is normal with double manning? i.e the display flipping from Rest to POA.
Secondly how does this affect my ability to demonstrate I’m subscribing to the WTD after 6 hours if the tacho reads POA
Slot 2 on a digital tachograph automatically changes to POA as soon as the vehicle starts moving, it’s designed that way, though for the life of me I can’t understand why
But hey, we’re talking about the EU so why would anyone expect any sort of rational logic
Because slot 2 can only record POA when the vehicle is moveing the EU have decided that when a co-drivers card is in slot 2 the first 45 minutes of that POA will be counted as break.
This should make it easy for the second driver to comply with both the WTD breaks and the driving breaks.
tachograph:
Slot 2 on a digital tachograph automatically changes to POA as soon as the vehicle starts moving, it’s designed that way, though for the life of me I can’t understand why
But hey, we’re talking about the EU so why would anyone expect any sort of rational logic
Because slot 2 can only record POA when the vehicle is moveing the EU have decided that when a co-drivers card is in slot 2 the first 45 minutes of that POA will be counted as break.
This should make it easy for the second driver to comply with both the WTD breaks and the driving breaks.
Great thanks for that Tachograph.
What would happen if I stop driving after say 2 hours, with the intention of using up my remaining 2.5 hours, 1 hour later (my colleague taking over the driving for say an hour) would the Tacho role over to my second 4.5 hours?
tachograph:
Slot 2 on a digital tachograph automatically changes to POA as soon as the vehicle starts moving, it’s designed that way, though for the life of me I can’t understand why
But hey, we’re talking about the EU so why would anyone expect any sort of rational logic
Because slot 2 can only record POA when the vehicle is moveing the EU have decided that when a co-drivers card is in slot 2 the first 45 minutes of that POA will be counted as break.
This should make it easy for the second driver to comply with both the WTD breaks and the driving breaks.
Great thanks for that Tachograph.
What would happen if I stop driving after say 2 hours, with the intention of using up my remaining 2.5 hours, 1 hour later (my colleague taking over the driving for say an hour) would the Tacho role over to my second 4.5 hours?
The digital tachograph always wrongly resets the driving time after 45 minutes of POA.
If you was on a single manned journey 45 minutes of POA would wrongly reset the driving time shown on the tachograph, but only break can reset the driving time legally.
However on a multi-manned journey, the first 45 minutes of POA while you’re in the passenger seat would count as break so would reset the driving time to allow you another 4.5 hours driving before needing another break.
For instance if you drove for 2 hours then changed drivers so you was the passenger for an hour, during that hour your driving time would be reset because the first 45 minutes of the POA would be regarded as break, so you could then drive for another 4.5 hours then change over again.
That would total 6.5 hours driving for you so you would still be able to do another 3.5 hours driving after another 45 minute break or POA in the passenger seat (assuming you had a 10 hour driving day available).
Tachograph, what is it in the regs that makes a few of the newbies think that once they have had a 45 min break it means that any unused driving time from the previous 4.5 hours is somehow lost ?
ROG: Tachograph, what is it in the regs that makes a few of the newbies think that once they have had a 45 min break it means that any unused driving time from the previous 4.5 hours is somehow lost ?
I’ve just checked and I think you’ll find that SpaceCowboy isn’t a new driver, though to be honest I wasn’t sure last night, I think he was checking how the tachograph would behave regarding driving time with slot 2 on POA.
But you’re right some drivers do seem to think that when you have a break you lose the unused part of the 4½ hours driving time, I’ve no idea why, it’s just confusion when people are trying to learn something they haven’t studied for a while I guess.
ROG: Tachograph, what is it in the regs that makes a few of the newbies think that once they have had a 45 min break it means that any unused driving time from the previous 4.5 hours is somehow lost ?
I’ve just checked and I think you’ll find that SpaceCowboy isn’t a new driver, though to be honest I wasn’t sure last night, I think he was checking how the tachograph would behave regarding driving time with slot 2 on POA.
But you’re right some drivers do seem to think that when you have a break you lose the unused part of the 4½ hours driving time, I’ve no idea why, it’s just confusion when people are trying to learn something they haven’t studied for a while I guess.
I was wondering if it could be the phrase - resets the driving time … leading to some thinking that the second 4.5 has started so leaving the first 4.5 done with completely ■■?
ROG: Tachograph, what is it in the regs that makes a few of the newbies think that once they have had a 45 min break it means that any unused driving time from the previous 4.5 hours is somehow lost ?
I’ve just checked and I think you’ll find that SpaceCowboy isn’t a new driver, though to be honest I wasn’t sure last night, I think he was checking how the tachograph would behave regarding driving time with slot 2 on POA.
But you’re right some drivers do seem to think that when you have a break you lose the unused part of the 4½ hours driving time, I’ve no idea why, it’s just confusion when people are trying to learn something they haven’t studied for a while I guess.
I was wondering if it could be the phrase - resets the driving time … leading to some thinking that the second 4.5 has started so leaving the first 4.5 done with completely ■■?
Cheers Fellas
Thanks for your help and clarification.
Like I said in my initial post “I’m new to double manning” and the behavior of the Tacho displaying POA (and actually POA in general in these circumstances) never needed to consider it before.
Just checking I’m following correct procedure as my colleague had put some doubt in my mind "saying there must be a fault with the tacho not displaying rest when he was driving. This led on to a conversation about the WTD and showing a break after 6 hours of duty time when I’m sat in the passenger seat and he’s driving the Tacho reverting to POA and not showing me on rest.
Could someone clarify this won’t cause and issues if we get pulled
When a second crew member is available for driving when necessary, is sitting next to the driver of the vehicle and is not
actively involved in assisting the driver driving the vehicle, a period of 45 minutes of that
crew member’s ‘period of availability’ can be regarded as ‘break’.
tachograph:
Slot 2 on a digital tachograph automatically changes to POA as soon as the vehicle starts moving, it’s designed that way, though for the life of me I can’t understand why
Hi there I will tell you why it does it and why it as to
If you are double manned and you have driven for 4.5 hours and then put your card into slot two it would recorded POA, it does this because if it did not you would not be able to drive again until you have had a break, as we all know that first 45 minutes on POA if and only if doubled manned would be accepted as a break.
If the unit did not do this you would not be able to drive again until a 45 minute break as be completed and that why it recorded POA in slot two and why it has to reset your driving time ( if the POA as exceeded 45 minutes).
look at the rules for double manned ops, and you will see it is possible to drive 10 hours each (if you have a 10 hour drive available) and only 1 hour other work no break are in it there covered by the POA that is recorded by slot two.
So if slot two did not go on POA as the other driver drove it would be down to the driver that’s using slot two to change the mode accordingly, ( but you can not change the mode two break on slot two in a moving vehicle) and we all know we sometimes forget that. So it does because it as to so that double manned jobs can be done legally.
tachograph:
Slot 2 on a digital tachograph automatically changes to POA as soon as the vehicle starts moving, it’s designed that way, though for the life of me I can’t understand why
Hi there I will tell you why it does it and why it as to
If you are double manned and you have driven for 4.5 hours and then put your card into slot two it would recorded POA, it does this because if it did not you would not be able to drive again until you have had a break, as we all know that first 45 minutes on POA if and only if doubled manned would be accepted as a break.
If the unit did not do this you would not be able to drive again until a 45 minute break as be completed and that why it recorded POA in slot two and why it has to reset your driving time ( if the POA as exceeded 45 minutes).
look at the rules for double manned ops, and you will see it is possible to drive 10 hours each (if you have a 10 hour drive available) and only 1 hour other work no break are in it there covered by the POA that is recorded by slot two.
So if slot two did not go on POA as the other driver drove it would be down to the driver that’s using slot two to change the mode accordingly, ( but you’re not allowed to have a break in a moving vehicle) and we all know we sometimes forget that. So it does because it as to so that double manned jobs can be done legally.
Sorry Del, you have it wrong
( but you’re not allowed to have a break in a moving vehicle)
Because you can take a break in a moving vehicle, what you cannot do is take a daily or weekly rest period on a moving vehicle. There is an important difference.
tachograph:
Slot 2 on a digital tachograph automatically changes to POA as soon as the vehicle starts moving, it’s designed that way, though for the life of me I can’t understand why
Hi there I will tell you why it does it and why it as to
If you are double manned and you have driven for 4.5 hours and then put your card into slot two it would recorded POA, it does this because if it did not you would not be able to drive again until you have had a break, as we all know that first 45 minutes on POA if and only if doubled manned would be accepted as a break.
If the unit did not do this you would not be able to drive again until a 45 minute break as be completed and that why it recorded POA in slot two and why it has to reset your driving time ( if the POA as exceeded 45 minutes).
look at the rules for double manned ops, and you will see it is possible to drive 10 hours each (if you have a 10 hour drive available) and only 1 hour other work no break are in it there covered by the POA that is recorded by slot two.
So if slot two did not go on POA as the other driver drove it would be down to the driver that’s using slot two to change the mode accordingly, ( but you’re not allowed to have a break in a moving vehicle) and we all know we sometimes forget that. So it does because it as to so that double manned jobs can be done legally.
Sorry Del, you have it wrong
( but you’re not allowed to have a break in a moving vehicle)
Because you can take a break in a moving vehicle, what you cannot do is take a daily or weekly rest period on a moving vehicle. There is an important difference.
sorry
should of said there no way of putting the tacho slot two on break in a moving vehicle.
tachograph:
Slot 2 on a digital tachograph automatically changes to POA as soon as the vehicle starts moving, it’s designed that way, though for the life of me I can’t understand why
Hi there I will tell you why it does it and why it as to
If you are double manned and you have driven for 4.5 hours and then put your card into slot two it would recorded POA, it does this because if it did not you would not be able to drive again until you have had a break, as we all know that first 45 minutes on POA if and only if doubled manned would be accepted as a break.
If the unit did not do this you would not be able to drive again until a 45 minute break as be completed and that why it recorded POA in slot two and why it has to reset your driving time ( if the POA as exceeded 45 minutes).
look at the rules for double manned ops, and you will see it is possible to drive 10 hours each (if you have a 10 hour drive available) and only 1 hour other work no break are in it there covered by the POA that is recorded by slot two.
So if slot two did not go on POA as the other driver drove it would be down to the driver that’s using slot two to change the mode accordingly, ( but you’re not allowed to have a break in a moving vehicle) and we all know we sometimes forget that. So it does because it as to so that double manned jobs can be done legally.
Sorry Del, you have it wrong
( but you’re not allowed to have a break in a moving vehicle)
Because you can take a break in a moving vehicle, what you cannot do is take a daily or weekly rest period on a moving vehicle. There is an important difference.
sorry
should of said there no way of putting the tacho slot two on break in a moving vehicle.
There isn’t because the gearbox sensor is sending the signal to the VU, the vehicle is moving so the head unit records it as that, it cannot distinguish what task the second man is doing.
Of course if you want to interrupt the sensors signal with a strong magnetic field, then you may be able to record a rest period for both drivers
tachograph:
Slot 2 on a digital tachograph automatically changes to POA as soon as the vehicle starts moving, it’s designed that way, though for the life of me I can’t understand why
Hi there I will tell you why it does it and why it as to
If you are double manned and you have driven for 4.5 hours and then put your card into slot two it would recorded POA, it does this because if it did not you would not be able to drive again until you have had a break, as we all know that first 45 minutes on POA if and only if doubled manned would be accepted as a break.
If the unit did not do this you would not be able to drive again until a 45 minute break as be completed and that why it recorded POA in slot two and why it has to reset your driving time ( if the POA as exceeded 45 minutes).
look at the rules for double manned ops, and you will see it is possible to drive 10 hours each (if you have a 10 hour drive available) and only 1 hour other work no break are in it there covered by the POA that is recorded by slot two.
So if slot two did not go on POA as the other driver drove it would be down to the driver that’s using slot two to change the mode accordingly, ( but you can not change the mode two break on slot two in a moving vehicle) and we all know we sometimes forget that. So it does because it as to so that double manned jobs can be done legally.
But that’s my point Del, why is the tachograph designed in such a way that you cannot put slot two on other work or break when the vehicle is moving, why is the mode switch not able to be used when the vehicle is moving ?
Wheel Nut:
delboytwo:
sorry
should of said there no way of putting the tacho slot two on break in a moving vehicle.
There isn’t because the gearbox sensor is sending the signal to the VU, the vehicle is moving so the head unit records it as that, it cannot distinguish what task the second man is doing.
Thank you, that’s about the most logical reason I’ve ever heard for slot two only recording POA while the vehicle is moving.
But I would have thought that if that’s correct it’s mainly a programming issue, I appreciate that the programming of a digital tachograph must be very complex, but if they can’t programme it so the mode switch for slot two is active while the vehicle is moving I’m surprised.
We found (on double man home deliveries in a daf 7.5) that 2 cards in would trigger an infringement if driver 1 swapped at 4h30 driving.
It would be on drivers 2 card, now in slot 1 as soon as driver 2 started driving.
Consequently, we’d change at around 4 hours driving, to avoid the false infringement.
Can I ask a question.
After 3 hrs of driving I change to slot 2 on a 2 man crew
After 30 mins of driving we stop and unload for 20 mins.
We then continue driving for another 30 mins.
Does the first 45 mins counts as a break rule only apply if it
Is continual driving or can it be sections and add up to 45 mins of poa ?
valks1:
Can I ask a question.
After 3 hrs of driving I change to slot 2 on a 2 man crew
After 30 mins of driving we stop and unload for 20 mins.
We then continue driving for another 30 mins.
Does the first 45 mins counts as a break rule only apply if it
Is continual driving or can it be sections and add up to 45 mins of poa ?
That’s an interesting question.
Certainly you can have a split break whilst sat in the passenger seat of a moving vehicle so legally there’s nothing to stop you manually recording break for those periods of POA on the back of a printout.
The DVSA guidance is worded in such a way that suggests (to me at-least) that they expect the 45 minutes to be in a single period of POA, however that would make no sense, so I think it’s almost certainly just the way it’s been worded.
I would have to say that the 45 minutes of break can be split between two periods of POA.
On a multi-manning operation, 45 minutes of a period of availability will be
considered to be a break, so long as the co-driver does no work.
It might be worth asking the DVSA for their interpretation of the guidance though wink:
tachograph:
, but if they can’t programme it so the mode switch for slot two is active while the vehicle is moving I’m surprised.
Surely it would be very dangerous for the passenger (or the driver) to operate the tacho in a moving vehicle?
I don’t understand why it can’t remain on other work for slot 2 when the vehicle starts moving though.
tachograph:
, but if they can’t programme it so the mode switch for slot two is active while the vehicle is moving I’m surprised.
Surely it would be very dangerous for the passenger (or the driver) to operate the tacho in a moving vehicle?
I don’t understand why it can’t remain on other work for slot 2 when the vehicle starts moving though.
tachograph:
, but if they can’t programme it so the mode switch for slot two is active while the vehicle is moving I’m surprised.
Surely it would be very dangerous for the passenger (or the driver) to operate the tacho in a moving vehicle?
I don’t understand why it can’t remain on other work for slot 2 when the vehicle starts moving though.
Really?
You’ve never cleared an over speed?
I’ve never had a passenger clear an overspeed on my tacho!
