Wolter KOOPS truck confiscated

[andrejs]

orys:

Sir +:

globby 480:
Koops… Drivers made to run till told to stop by Koops., and Koops pay there fine drivers hours etc,etc, you should see the tanker they bring across at weekends to fill the trucks up at the koops truck park at immingham,

I’m just wondering how this tanker thing works.Surely,UK duty has to be paid on a ‘tanker’ load of imported fuel,so how does Walter Koops gain by doing this? If he/they gain,why aren’t the big players in the UK doing the same?

Well, theoretically speaking, you have to pay UK duty, but you don’t have to pay other taxes etc. So if you manage to buy some cheap diesel somewhere in the country that, for example, has much lower VAT, you can still have cheaper fuel.

But I believe that all this tanker story is just one of the MMTM fairy tales

---

all depend because when people or company bring stuff to Uk from another country,pay just VAT. but for diesel,fuel,cigarete,alcohol aplly anothet tax,duty,in different country different rulles.in some country and in Poland as well (was ,may be now as well)-if foreigh Lorry cross Poland ,so lorry cant have full petrol tank if they cross Poland 2or 3 time per week.and not every country accept if lorry have addittional fixed petrol (diesel)tank.just standart manafactured fixed diesel tank…and i full agree if any British lorry drivers go to some where,they must keep all rulles ,depend from coutry whey they.and if any foreigh lorry come to Uk.they must follow for british rulles.DONT LIKED,DON T GO

[orys]

limeyphil:
VAT dosn’t come in to it. It dosn’t matter if the VAT is 10% or 50%. It is deducted at source, unless you pay in cash. then it’s a headache.

Yes, you are propably right I forgot about that VAT for companies is differrent things

[orys]

raymundo:
FFS, lets get back on topic quick before Orys start on AGAIN about the superiority of the Polish race

I nevers started about superiority of the Polish race.

First, Polish is not the race, is a nation.
Second, we are not superior, we are just not inferior to British as some here think.
Third, I simply explained to bigvern how the transport solutions he witnessed work (and despite what someone suggessted, the transport companies that deliver to Polish shops or ship parcels to Poland DO make the profit. If they didn’t, they would look for another work).

And yes, why don’t we come back to the topic. Wolter Koops is not Polish company. It’s Dutch.

[orys]

bigvern1:
What does this have to do with what I posted? Yes I did Europe in a Sprinter, still do sometimes. But it’s dedicated freight. Not trans-shipped. And Orys…You are right of course.

You suggesting that transshipping loads is not fair? Or maybe its impossible to make profit that way? Or it’s illegal?

I just can’t see what’s your problem with it is.

[raymundo]

Some people on here have no sense of humour whatsoever

[orys]

raymundo:
Some people on here have no sense of humour whatsoever

I know YOU have tongue in cheek (is that right expression?) but as you noticed, some people don’t have sense of humour so I have to take them in consideration

[jayseabea]

Just out of curiosity. What are the models called from Iveco/Renault with the tilt backs and sleeper pods? Is the internal length 4mtrs and are they speed limited?

[dew]

jayseabea:
Just out of curiosity. What are the models called from Iveco/Renault with the tilt backs and sleeper pods? Is the internal length 4mtrs and are they speed limited?

It’s simply a Renault Master or an Iveco Turbo Daily, not sure if they’d hit 4mtrs or not, and wouldn’t have to be limited by law but some are.

[billybigrig]

Aye and Kent Police have developed a justifiable liking for weighing them

[orys]

billybigrig:
Aye and Kent Police have developed a justifiable liking for weighing them

Not only Kent Police…

I was weighed in Austria on few occasions as well

The difference is that in Austria they pull everyone, in UK and Germany they pull only Eastern European ones. So I know small Polish-British company that have two vans registered in Poland and one registered in UK - in case that they have to run overloaded

[harry_monk]

orys:
The difference is that in Austria they pull everyone, in UK and Germany they pull only Eastern European ones.

Amazing as this may seem, VOSA and the Police to stop British drivers too. An eastern European truck is far more likely to be overloaded on the drive axle than a British one simply because we tend to use three-axled tractor units which are far less prone to axle overloading.

[billybigrig]

orys:

billybigrig:
Aye and Kent Police have developed a justifiable liking for weighing them

Not only Kent Police…

I was weighed in Austria on few occasions as well

The difference is that in Austria they pull everyone, in UK and Germany they pull only Eastern European ones.

It’s called called targeting the most likely, severe and frequent offenders

[orys]

Harry Monk:
Amazing as this may seem, VOSA and the Police to stop British drivers too. An eastern European truck is far more likely to be overloaded on the drive axle than a British one simply because we tend to use three-axled tractor units which are far less prone to axle overloading.

I know that they stop Britons TOO. It’s simply the scale that matters. Everytime I drive past open VOSA checkpoint, most of the trucks there are Eastern Europeans. Surely there is still more British trucks on British roads, so they should be a majority of the stopped ones?

Same in Germany. It off course goes to bigger scale, as lecture of the Polish forums shows, but from my own experience: the only time I was in Germany with a Polish-registered car, I was stopped 3 times. And that was only on a way from Polish border to Hanover and back. All other times I was in Germany (both in my car and in van) which was so many times that I lost the count long time ago, I can recall being stopped on three or four occasions.

In Austria they just pull everyone over 2.8t and you have to drive through the weighbridge…

billybigrig:
It’s called called targeting the most likely, severe and frequent offenders

The problems is that it’s actually not. It’s called “national prejudice”. If they were targeting most likely offenders, they would focus on Belgians, as some statistics showed that they are biggest offenders in EU when it comes to tacho infrigments and stuff. (it was even somewhere here on trucknet but I can’t find it now)

As I said before likeness of being stopped when you are driving British-registered van is so low, that some Polish companies use British registered vans to shift heavy stuff that goes over the weight limit (and I don’t condone it, I just stating the fact, I know British companies that run overloaded vans too - just to be clear on that it’s not Polish speciality).

[harry_monk]

orys:
I know that they stop Britons TOO. It’s simply the scale that matters. Everytime I drive past open VOSA checkpoint, most of the trucks there are Eastern Europeans. Surely there is still more British trucks on British roads, so they should be a majority of the stopped ones?

Presumably that’s because eastern European trucks trigger the VOSA Viper more often then.

Or maybe VOSA have learned from experience that there is more likely to be something wrong with eastern European trucks? Or are you suggesting that VOSA are just institutionally racist?

[jessicas_dad]

Harry Monk:
Or maybe VOSA have learned from experience that there is more likely to be something wrong with eastern European trucks? Or are you suggesting that VOSA are just institutionally racist?

no its just orys is full off zb, wait 10 mins he will start copying and pasteing.

[gasgas]

For years, VOSA and police did not bother stopping E Europeans AT ALL because they could not/would not pay fines.

They only started stopping them once the law had been changed to allow the taking of a deposit/fixed penalty or vehicle impounding against a court appearance.

VOSA now use OCRS to target law-breaking British operators and ‘intelligence’ to target foreigners. It takes VOSA longer to process the foreigners (some of whom forget how to speak English when they see a VOSA or police uniform), which is why there are always loads of them parked up at checks. In some cases the VOSA man has to speak to his counterpart in the foreign truck’s country of registration before he can complete the check.

The foreign drivers could speed the process up if they had all the correct documentation to hand…they often don’t.

The stats show that offending rates are pretty similar among the British and foreign trucks that are stopped by VOSA, so it would seem the current system is pretty fair. Most trucks that are stopped, whether British or foreign, have committed some kind of offence.

[orys]

It’s just self-spinning circle. You control more, you find more things that are wrong.

As we on several occasions discussed here in Trucknet, it used to be true, but nowadays most Eastern European companies have much higher standards. But they are still targeted as “more likely offenders” and because they are targetted more, more is found.

I am really convinced that if one day VOSA wiped out all its records and started to control trucks on pro-rata basis to their numbers of the roads, soon Polish companies will go up in their statistics and British companies down.

As for your question: I don’t think its racist, it’s well known psychological efect called confmiration bias.

Trucknet’s attitude to Eastern Europeans is another brilliant example of it with you, Harry, being a cherry on the top of it.

Jesssicas dad: No copy pastying, especially for you. And also, no offensive statements about you, even despite that our views are different. Try it once!

[billybigrig]

orys:

billybigrig:
It’s called called targeting the most likely, severe and frequent offenders

The problems is that it’s actually not. It’s called “national prejudice”.

Testicles dear boy

Plenty of Brits, with experience greater then your total age, know that rocking up at a peage in a right ■■■■■■ makes you a target. Why, simples because we used to run bent as a nail,as other nationalities did, but often with the bonus of hidden tanks of cherry so statistically Monsieur Gendarme was going to make a better nick from a Brit motor. However as a lot were running 3 axle units and knowing our lower drive axle limits the one thing they would often do is wave you out of the line for the axle weigher. Targeted policing is hardly a new thing and a bad reputation is a hard thing to shed

When I first started driving a clog motor I was surprised how little I got pulled A couple of times when I did get pulled I blagged my way easily out of “dodgys” I’m certain I would not of escaped from had I been in a Brit motor. My blags were believable but needed the nice Gendarme to give me the benefit of the doubt

Personally, regardless of country of origin, I would think that looking at those things if they appeared loaded and were I a copper, it would be straight off to the weighbridge

“Targeting” again there Orys but based on the type of vehicle not the country of origin. The fact that they’re are many more of them from Poland and EU is what would bias the statistics and not that they’re just picking on the poor old Poles again

[billybigrig]

orys:
It’s just self-spinning circle. You control more, you find more things that are wrong.

As we on several occasions discussed here in Trucknet, it used to be true, but nowadays most Eastern European companies have much higher standards. But they are still targeted as “more likely offenders” and because they are targetted more, more is found.

Well if more is found then clearly the targeting is justified ■■?

[orys]

GasGas:
For years, VOSA and police did not bother stopping E Europeans AT ALL because they could not/would not pay fines.

They only started stopping them once the law had been changed to allow the taking of a deposit/fixed penalty or vehicle impounding against a court appearance.

VOSA now use OCRS to target law-breaking British operators and ‘intelligence’ to target foreigners. It takes VOSA longer to process the foreigners (some of whom forget how to speak English when they see a VOSA or police uniform), which is why there are always loads of them parked up at checks. In some cases the VOSA man has to speak to his counterpart in the foreign truck’s country of registration before he can complete the check.

Actually this is very interesting. You are right, that’s propably another factor that leads to that there is more EE trucks visible on checkpoints - they just spend more time there on average.

The foreign drivers could speed the process up if they had all the correct documentation to hand…they often don’t.

From my experience as interpreter I can guess that lack of knowledge of foreign language and laws amongst British officers can also lead to delays. For example: I had a case when Police officer insisted on a Polish driver that his car is uninsured, because he was in UK 4 months with his Polish plated car, and according to the Police officer you can drive only 3 months here. In fact, you can drive up to 6 months here if you are insured and the fact that British insurers usually allow you to drive only three months abroad does not mean, that foreign insurers are the same).

The stats show that offending rates are pretty similar among the British and foreign trucks that are stopped by VOSA, so it would seem the current system is pretty fair. Most trucks that are stopped, whether British or foreign, have committed some kind of offence.

Here, here, something for you, Harry.

billybigrig:
Well if more is found then clearly the targeting is justified ■■?

Obviously you don’t understand basic math. Let’s make a case study:

Say we have 100 Polish lorries and 1000 British lorries on the road. 10% of all lorries have something wrong with them, regardless of the country of registration.

If we stop pro-rata 10% of all lorries, statistically we’ll find that there was something wrong with one Polish lorry and 10 British lorries, which is perfectly OK, as it is proportional to the total number of the lorries.

If we stop 50% of Polish lorries and 5% of British lorries, statistically we get 5 Polish lorries that have something wrong with them and 5 British lorries that have something wrong with them.

What you say is “It’s OK to pull more Polish lorries, because despite that there is 10 times less of them, we found as much of them commiting offences as the British ones”.

The targeting would be justified, if the proportion of the lorries stopped was taken in to that account.