Paulson:
Indeed, I think some ferry companies used to facilitate this with ‘fuel cruise’ deals for tractor units only?Some firms used to get quite creative about bringing diesel back, as this photo shows - it had the same on both sides!!!
It used to be £50 return on Sea France up til midday Saturday for a tractor unit. One day I went on a diesel run and the truck in front of me on the boat on the way out had a 1000 litre IBC strapped to the catwalk. 
You should see the trucks parked at Felixstowe/Orwell Crossing at the weekend, all Polish, pulling Ferry trailers, think they go back once every few months!
Harry Monk:
It used to be £50 return on Sea France up til midday Saturday for a tractor unit.
I think the chunnel did solo deals at one time too. I’m sure I remember Sean (who was/is on here as north surrey haulage and later jonah) used to pay a driver most weekends to go through the tunnel solo and fill the 1500l tanks on his Volvo up. If you can save 20ppl and you’re putting in 1500l then you’re saving 300quid so it’s worth a 100-150quid train ticket and a few hours wages for a driver.
Paul
repton:
Harry Monk:
It used to be £50 return on Sea France up til midday Saturday for a tractor unit.I think the chunnel did solo deals at one time too. I’m sure I remember Sean (who was/is on here as north surrey haulage and later jonah) used to pay a driver most weekends to go through the tunnel solo and fill the 1500l tanks on his Volvo up. If you can save 20ppl and you’re putting in 1500l then you’re saving 300quid so it’s worth a 100-150quid train ticket and a few hours wages for a driver.
Paul
There were quite a few doing the fuel runs, even on the Poole boats, there used to be one driver with about 6 units, he was running up or down the linkspan like a blue arsed fly trying to get all his charge on board.
The only problem seems to be the act of transferring it from one tank to another vehicles tank
Wheel Nut:
The only problem seems to be the act of transferring it from one tank to another vehicles tank
Aye, it is my understanding that any cheap fuel imported in a vehicle’s tanks can only legally be used in that vehicle.
Of course unless you’re actually caught in the act of transferring it, it is very hard for them to prove anything.
Paul
repton:
Wheel Nut:
The only problem seems to be the act of transferring it from one tank to another vehicles tankAye, it is my understanding that any cheap fuel imported in a vehicle’s tanks can only legally be used in that vehicle.
Of course unless you’re actually caught in the act of transferring it, it is very hard for them to prove anything.
Paul
If HMRC suspect it they can look at your fuel receipts, just like how VOSA catch “pump break” [zb]s out.
If your 4x2 tractor unit seems to be putting 1200 litres in every other day and doing 1.2 mpg while the rest of your fleet seem to be doing 140 mpg … 
I had an O/D friend who spent a lot of time to and fro to the Benelux most of the year but did UK traction Sept through Jan. He used to store up excess fuel through the year in IBCs to run cheap through the UK only work period. Although for some reason HMRC were ok with that he got nicked by the council for illegal fuel storage
Wheel Nut:
There were quite a few doing the fuel runs, even on the Poole boats, there used to be one driver with about 6 units, he was running up or down the linkspan like a blue arsed fly trying to get all his charge on board.
There was a firm from Yorkshire who used to send three tractor units down every weekend on a low loader, park it at Ashford truckstop, then all four units would go off to Adinkerke or Veurne to fill up.
My boss at the time used to reckon that after paying the ferry, the fuel consumed and the driver, that there was about £250 to be made on each truck by doing the Belgian fuel run.
In the late 90s when these weekend fuel runs first started there was a crowd from Essex/Suffolk area that used to be in ashford truckstop every saturday morning with a low loader. On this were 2 old ERF 4 wheelers with tanks running wheel to wheel both sides. A similar spec unit pulled it. They would leave the trailer and head for the train returning late afternoon, load up and head for home. A driver once told me that each unit carried 2000 litres. I can’t remember the company name but the colours were blue and white in a very similar style to the infamous Romanteik.
As for Walter Koops they are far from the only ones operating in this manner. I don’t know if things are different on the north sea crossings in Pompey and Poole it used to cost the same to ship a trailer unaccompanied as accompanied by the time you paid the tug charges. If so all it would take would be to send a unit over with a trailer once a week to satisfy the cabotage regs and with big tanks they could also bring back enough diesel to cover there legal 3 loads whilst back in the UK.
As for the bigger picture regarding foreign trucks doing dock traction for weeks on end out of UK ports it has been well enough publicised in the transport media and on forums such as this. Maybe the authorities are finally gearing up to do something about it. Hitting a big high profile operator like Koops would certainly send a message.
Cheers
Neilf
I had work offered, through a third party, take a unit to Stranraer and move a ferry trailer onto the boat. Drop the trailer in the yard in Belfast and bob tail into the Republic for a tank full. Same on the way back and this haulier apparently did it regularly up to a dozen times a week.
This was about 18 months ago.
Sir +:
globby 480:
Koops… Drivers made to run till told to stop by Koops., and Koops pay there fine drivers hours etc,etc, you should see the tanker they bring across at weekends to fill the trucks up at the koops truck park at immingham,I’m just wondering how this tanker thing works.Surely,UK duty has to be paid on a ‘tanker’ load of imported fuel,so how does Walter Koops gain by doing this? If he/they gain,why aren’t the big players in the UK doing the same?
Well, theoretically speaking, you have to pay UK duty, but you don’t have to pay other taxes etc. So if you manage to buy some cheap diesel somewhere in the country that, for example, has much lower VAT, you can still have cheaper fuel.
But I believe that all this tanker story is just one of the MMTM fairy tales 
billybigrig:
neil46:
pierrot 14:
Been there done it, with the diesel transfer business, been going on for ages.
Some time ago I worked for a tiny British firm near Maidstone, we used to fill up our tanks in Belgium on our way home and as soon as we got to the yard, the tanks were emptied into big plastic reservoirs, leaving enough for our next outward journey.
The fuel ■■?
Pumped into the tanks of the motors doing UK work.
Totally illegal, but hey, if it keeps a small haulier from going bust, what the heck.Been there,done that,got the t shirt
Same here
Ah, so it’s not that it’s wrong in general. It’s just wrong when non-Britons do that. 
So much about level playing field 
bigvern1:
The scourge of Europe and I mean ALL Europe. Is the 3.5t Polish curtainsiders with sleeper pods. I have seen literally dozens in nearly all services areas in France/Germany/Belgium /Holland etc. All Renaults too, waiting for the 40 feet wagons to trans-ship the pallets and off they pop. Something very,very wrong there.And yes Orys…They are Polish.
Off course it has to be wrong. After all, they are Polish, dont’ they?
If you stopped to be such a biased stubborn one, you could work it out yourself.
But I will tell you how it work, as I happen to know how deliveries to Polish shops in UK are made. Food and newspapers have to arrive fresh, so time matters.
The stuff is delivered to the company HQ in Poland by the manufacturers/wholesalers vehicles. It’s then broken down and orders are paletised for every shop and then loaded onto the big truck and off they go. They drive as far as they can on one shift (often they are double manned) and meet the small vans. The small vans then take the load, and deliver it to several shops across UK and Ireland.
This is the best way to do it: it’s quick, but also it has to be cost effective, hence as far as it is possible transport is done with big truck (especially that small vans have to follow tacho rules in Germany anyway, so they won’t be much faster on that bit of the road). Much better way than stopping the artic for 11 hours of daily rest and then go to UK to do multidrop deliveries few pallets in each shop, don’t you think?
Also when it comes to parcel service - this is also very common method and, again, I happen to know people who run one of these small Polish parcel companies. This is how it looks like. Local (British registered, as companies are run in Britain) vans are collecting parcels from local areas. The big truck is going on regular route from Aberdeen via Glasgow and down M6 and M40. He does several stops on the way where local parcel companies - such as the one run by my friends - deliver non-urgent stuff to him. By the time he reaches Dover he is fully loaded. Then he goes to Poland and does the same there. Then on the way back he collects parcels and when going up to Aberdeen, he drops them off in agreed meeting points.
At the same time, the express parcels are going to Poland on small vans - usually from Scotland via Newcastle-Amsterdam ferry.
And just for your information: there is nothing wrong with transfering loads between vehicles. We used to do similar thing with my British company. I give you, as an example, a turbo-diary for one of my trips.
I am leaving Scotland fully loaded. I do three drops - one in Slovenia, one in Hungary, one in Czech Republic. Then I go and meet our another driver who collected some urgent stuff from England on German-Czech border. I take two pallets off him and deliver them to ÄŒR and Slovakia, and he goes with another three to Austria and Slovenia. Meanhile when I am empty, I am collecting four jobs - two in Czech Republic, two in eastern Germany and go to Folkestone, where I meet two other vans from our place, I give one of them jobs for Scotland, another one takes the job for Plymouth and I myself am going to do job in central London.
jayseabea:
Personally I think that is a great idea.
I’d have to sit down and work out how, say, 25 1.5 ton vans running around with say 4 pallets each off 1 lorry can be more cost effective than one lorry load to, say,half a dozen drops…or something to that effect.
Am I missing something? Since when has transhipping been illegal or immoral?
As a van haulier I’d love to be in cahoots with a lorry firm dropping a load off for me at Dover that thay can’t be bothered delivering.
Actually these Polish vans are usually fitted with bodies taking 8 pallets:
but some take 10 pallets (Iveco Daily is often seen with a such body).
BTW: we used to have one of these in my place of work. It’s really BIG.
bigvern1:
repton:
bigvern1:
The scourge of Europe and I mean ALL Europe. Is the 3.5t Polish curtainsiders with sleeper pods. I have seen literally dozens in nearly all services areas in France/Germany/Belgium /Holland etc. All Renaults too, waiting for the 40 feet wagons to trans-ship the pallets and off they pop. Something very,very wrong there.And yes Orys…They are Polish.I’m struggling to see what could possibly be wrong with that? If they’ve spotted a way of making money using 3.5t vans then what is wrong with that? Or are you implying they are doing something illegal? If so do you not think they would have be done for it by now if they’re doing it so blatantly?
Paul
No…I wasn’t implying anywhere that it was illegal. Maybe someone’s paying for dedicated freight and this stuff is going groupage.
Merely an observation.
I see them everywhere I go in France/Germany/Belgium /Holland etc, with registration plates from all over Europe and further East and including UK. Predominantly Eastern European registrations though.
You did some work of an apparently similar nature, for a British company, didn’t you?
Going to Europe in a Sprinter van, but that boss was to tight fisted to even run to a sleeper pod so you slept across the seats. Granted he paid hotel rates on overnight money rather than sleeper cab rates, I understand.
Merely an observation!
Simon:
You did some work of an apparently similar nature, for a British company, didn’t you?
Going to Europe in a Sprinter van, but that boss was to tight fisted to even run to a sleeper pod so you slept across the seats. Granted he paid hotel rates on overnight money rather than sleeper cab rates, I understand.
Merely an observation!
No, come on! You must be joking. British company, running vans without sleeping pods? Breaking the law (as resting in vehicle without bed is illegal) and cuting costs at all costs? Maybe you even suggest that they don’t drive to domestic rules and just keep pressing as long as they are able to keep their eyes open?
I am sure no British driver would agree to work in such conditions. They are cream de la creme of the driving people, and therefore they deserve DECENT conditions. They are not some Poles to work like that. They all respect them - this is why all British vans are usually fitted with sleeping pods and none of Eastern European ones is. And for sure none of them would rise their bums for less than 10 per hour for such a job 
Yes it does work but remember these loads are done on no profit at all
Sent from my Windows Phone 8X by HTC using Board Express
Simon:
bigvern1:
repton:
bigvern1:
The scourge of Europe and I mean ALL Europe. Is the 3.5t Polish curtainsiders with sleeper pods. I have seen literally dozens in nearly all services areas in France/Germany/Belgium /Holland etc. All Renaults too, waiting for the 40 feet wagons to trans-ship the pallets and off they pop. Something very,very wrong there.And yes Orys…They are Polish.I’m struggling to see what could possibly be wrong with that? If they’ve spotted a way of making money using 3.5t vans then what is wrong with that? Or are you implying they are doing something illegal? If so do you not think they would have be done for it by now if they’re doing it so blatantly?
Paul
No…I wasn’t implying anywhere that it was illegal. Maybe someone’s paying for dedicated freight and this stuff is going groupage.
Merely an observation.I see them everywhere I go in France/Germany/Belgium /Holland etc, with registration plates from all over Europe and further East and including UK. Predominantly Eastern European registrations though.
You did some work of an apparently similar nature, for a British company, didn’t you?
Going to Europe in a Sprinter van, but that boss was to tight fisted to even run to a sleeper pod so you slept across the seats. Granted he paid hotel rates on overnight money rather than sleeper cab rates, I understand.
Merely an observation!
What does this have to do with what I posted? Yes I did Europe in a Sprinter, still do sometimes. But it’s dedicated freight. Not trans-shipped. And Orys…You are right of course.
orys:
Sir +:
globby 480:
Koops… Drivers made to run till told to stop by Koops., and Koops pay there fine drivers hours etc,etc, you should see the tanker they bring across at weekends to fill the trucks up at the koops truck park at immingham,I’m just wondering how this tanker thing works.Surely,UK duty has to be paid on a ‘tanker’ load of imported fuel,so how does Walter Koops gain by doing this? If he/they gain,why aren’t the big players in the UK doing the same?
Well, theoretically speaking, you have to pay UK duty, but you don’t have to pay other taxes etc. So if you manage to buy some cheap diesel somewhere in the country that, for example, has much lower VAT, you can still have cheaper fuel.
But I believe that all this tanker story is just one of the MMTM fairy tales
VAT dosn’t come in to it. It dosn’t matter if the VAT is 10% or 50%. It is deducted at source, unless you pay in cash. then it’s a headache.
FFS, lets get back on topic quick before Orys start on AGAIN about the superiority of the Polish race 
I used to work for a Guernsey company and I used to bring 25ltr containers of diesel back to Portland for my 4 x 4 to run back to Elgin, and it was white and no rip off duty. You don’t or didn’t get any different there.
edit … the diesel was white, not the motor
raymundo:
FFS, lets get back on topic quick before Orys start on AGAIN about the superiority of the Polish race
I used to work for a Guernsey company and I used to bring 25ltr containers of diesel back to Portland for my 4 x 4 to run back to Elgin, and it was white and no rip off duty. You don’t or didn’t get any different there.edit … the diesel was white, not the motor
Here is the legal bit from HMRC. I 'm with repton though, what the eye doesn’t see, etc etc.
How much fuel can a commercial vehicle bring into the UK without paying additional duty?
You may bring in the fuel which is held in the ‘standard tank’ of the vehicle in question, provided that the fuel is not removed from the vehicle. The fuel may only be used in the vehicle in which it was imported. In addition, fuel may be brought into the UK in a ‘special container’ for on-board refrigeration systems on condition that this ‘special container’ is not connected to the engine or the fuel system of the vehicle. If you are in any way unsure, contact the Customs National Advice Service for further advice.
