Why oh why would you

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
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Why would you start training with out your provisional hgv licence. If the Dvla don’t give a licence you have wasted your money. Story below

Prospective lorry drivers could begin their theory and off-road parts of the driver CPC before they are granted their provisional licence, under plans put forward by Ministers.

A consultation about the proposals has been launched by the department for transport (DfT) to help improve HGV driver recruitment.

It said the changes would mean lorry drivers could start their training quicker and create a “stronger haulage sector, helping ensure medical supplies reach hospitals, parcels are delivered on time and supermarket shelves are always stocked.”

The DfT added that it was not proposing to allow any on-road driving to commence without provisional entitlement.

“The industry reported an acute shortage of HGV drivers that began in 2021,” the DfT said.The government has implemented 33 short, medium and long-term interventions to help HGV driver shortages.

“These measures are taking effect with industry bodies reporting that the number of HGV drivers is stabilising.

“The measures include specific training initiatives, for example related to apprenticeships and bootcamps.

“The second proposed action – allowing a person to undertake the theory and off-road driving tests without first being granted a provisional bus, coach, or HGV licence – would apply to HGVs and could further help improve HGV driver recruitment.

“To further address this shortage, DfT is calling for views on the impacts of amending licencing restrictions on the HGV sector,” it added.

Logistics UK broadly welcomed the proposals, but it also cautioned that safety was paramount:

“Allowing young people to start their driver theory training before obtaining their provisional licences will kickstart their route into becoming HGV drivers,” said Chris Yarsley, senior policy manager for road freight regulation at Logistics UK.

“However, it is worth remembering that driving a vehicle of this size is a technically challenging occupation, which is highly regulated for a reason, and we will be ensuring as part of the consultation that all the necessary training for qualification as a safe and compliant driver is still achieved before taking to the roads.”

The consultation can be accessed here: Amendments to licensing restrictions: bus, coach and heavy goods vehicles - GOV.UK and it runs until 5 June.

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correct me if im wrong but isnt getting your provisional automatic? However quite clearly there is an issue in getting the provisional licenses out typical civil service rubbish dont want to do any work and just cry about how over worked they are. Rather than sacking the incompetent and telling them to belt up and do the job they come up with silly schemes that wont make a blind bit of difference

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The benefit would appear to be marginal. As it stands medical availability isn’t too bad and the DVLA doesn’t appear to be too bad in straightforward applications where there are no medical issues.

However, in the case where passing a medical is in doubt or if there is any reason that a provisional entitlement may be disallowed, I can’t really see someone starting training while this is up in the air.

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Not for LGV and PCV licences. They’re supposed to be reviewed by the TC office.

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ok
what would they be looking for though? they would have passed a medical and as they were on about recruiting people on license from prison it cant be that i cat see the tc would have any other info

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@o/p…
I think your thread title says it all mate tbh, and is quite sufficuent…you could have saved the rest of the paragraphs.

I really can not see why anybody would be attracted to this job at all these days, with the way it has come to over the years.

Speaking as an established driver, (and tbh one who still reasonably enjoys the actual job I do now) I would absolutely HATE to be a new driver these days.
The majority of these firms just want ‘robotic yes men’ so they are moulding young lads as such,.and many of the older ones are as bad.

At my place alone, you are only classed as a ‘good man’ if you run like your arse is on fire,.start at stupid effin times,.and habitually max out to the limit without question…on your way to your first heart attack.

I just run at a sensible safe pace, and do not get stressed out,.because I just do not take the job THAT seriously…but laugh my bits off at the clowns I am surrounded by. :roll_eyes:

Apart from all that,.the actual ridiculous cost of getting a licence, the cpc dog sh,.all the restrictions and fines for just ‘doing your job’, the ridiculous overnight parking (or lack of it) situation, …Going to places like London where you would swear tf you were actualy being set a challenge to do the job, and then there’s the abundance of incompetent d/heads and f/wits in the job you are forced to endure, both management AND many drivers.
I really can not see the atraction.
Maybe I have just grown out of it.:grin:

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Statutory Document No.6 provides more info

This link gives anonymised data on the outcome of TC decisions, including applications for licences

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intresting reading

If having points or a record of a ban affects your application surely though one would wait till they have the provisional in their hand.

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Last CPC I was on grown arse men were having a serious conversation for a good 30 minutes about whether the height marker should be set at 13 foot 3, 6, 8 or 10 or god forbid the actual height of the trailer at 13 foot 1.

A little bit of me died in that classroom.

Ive found a way to enjoy the job and part of that really is working out the ones who take it seriously and where possible, avoid them like the plague.

Also these loosening of the restrictions, whilst getting some good people on the job, its also letting people through who really aren’t suitable to be driving trucks. Not necessarily the driving of the vehicle but no understanding of all the bits that go around it and without the gumption that they need to work that out for themselves rather than having their hands held.

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The TC will review what is recorded about the applicant and decide wether the provisional will or will not be granted. PSV drivers have even stricter criteria, they need DBS clearance to get their provisional licence

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ok i miss understood i thought it was cut and dried… ie you have been banned for speeding or have 6 points so no licence.

i can understand the dbs check for psv as potentially they will be dealing with children

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It matters if you want to keep YOUR cash for YOURSELF.
Since mid 2023 DVSA are checking the height on the in cab indicator against the actual height of the vehicle. People are now being fined if the in cab marker shows more than six inches more than the actual overall travelling height.
See LUK 2023 Compliance Report for facts and figures.

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That does seem a bit backwards. I mean if you height is set higher than your actual height in theory you shouldn’t go under any low bridges. Now checking it for height lower than your travelling height and fine the crap out of those people yes I could get on board with that. I do understand why they fine you for more then 6" higher that travelling height mind. But clamp down on height not being checked and set correctly. Then again without measuring any of ours we are going off info provided by the company and on sheets inside the cabs. I really should use a tape measure and check some of them to see if they are accurate or if they have already added some extra on for error.

I still don’t quite understand why people hit bridges and what could be done to actually stop it. But companies also maybe have to bear some responsibility at times, we have varying trailers from singles to deckers. All the deckers I believe are the same height, but singles well now they can all sorts of heights, from no taller than the units to a fair bit taller than the units.

Every unit has a conversion chart in it along with it’s 5th wheel height and overall cab running height. Yet almost every one (DAF) has varying unit only heights.

Having all your trailers built to the same size and height and also ensuring all units are set the same height where possible with the roof kit surely would make life just that little bit more simple. I wonder how many people have got used to say 14’2" being the max on our singles and then the new ones are 14’“4, it may only be 2” but it only takes a driver to get complacent and not check it’s not the same height and wallop.

I’m not defending hitting bridges before anyone suggests it I’m just saying there should be some from of standardisation across the board with companies.

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The simple solution is for for all operators to (be made to) have one of these, at £90 it’s a hell of a lot cheaper than a bridge strike :grin:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TENSYS-Trailer-Caravan-Telescopic-Measuring/dp/B07G5FMM8R/ref=sxin_15_pa_sp_search_thematic_sspa?content-id=amzn1.sym.70b6b787-854a-49f8-996a-ed25b08dcd4f%3Aamzn1.sym.70b6b787-854a-49f8-996a-ed25b08dcd4f&crid=3TM0FBMURAQ1P&cv_ct_cx=height+measuring+stick&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.HK9K70YYjS5irFu8YWBHn2rSYLoJCgbWXpn_SVhruRK644w66px_xrzJYONbOe2fUy6Ot-y2hm1zwK6aUqE4jQ.FEvEqZkf9B0r3KCTtKG1uCtu6mYM0b1B0kjfunsJ_fc&dib_tag=se&keywords=height+measuring+stick&pd_rd_i=B07G5FMM8R&pd_rd_r=ae36f967-c7ef-4823-be87-65c14ac2d1ad&pd_rd_w=lTiZQ&pd_rd_wg=qhl5J&pf_rd_p=70b6b787-854a-49f8-996a-ed25b08dcd4f&pf_rd_r=VR1AQ2YKC9Y380K88YTG&qid=1713527245&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sprefix=height+measuring+stick%2Caps%2C77&sr=1-1-ad3222ed-9545-4dc8-8dd8-6b2cb5278509-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9zZWFyY2hfdGhlbWF0aWM&psc=1

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I’ve got one of those in my '67 plate truck. It’s still in it’s wrapper, but I’m looking forward to getting it out and using it.