I’ve been waiting for ages to use the phrase ‘great looking beaver’…
Bender:
I’ve been waiting for ages to use the phrase ‘great looking beaver’…
It’s an Octopus.
fryske:
Bender:
I’ve been waiting for ages to use the phrase ‘great looking beaver’…It’s an Octopus.
I know. I’m still waiting. (eight wheels = eight legs - easy)
Bender:
fryske:
Bender:
I’ve been waiting for ages to use the phrase ‘great looking beaver’…It’s an Octopus.
I know. I’m still waiting. (eight wheels = eight legs - easy)
well, in memory of the great Leslie Neilson - here’s a well-stuffed Beaver
Leyland Interim Beaver RC9098 by fryske, on Flickr
ramone:
So all 16 had engine problems? or was it various faults,6 speed in the late 70s with just over 2oobhp is hardly going to make any driver happy,all Leyland by now they killed the rest off ,word as it that when the mandator was killed off the loyal operators and there was still a few wouldnt touch the Buffalo so they put the L12 in it to try keep the buisness they put the ZF in the Leopard when the killed off the Reliance that didn`t work either
No, it was a variety of things - you name it, it fell off! At that time, although many of the fleet were 204bhp ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ ERF A Series and Atkinson Borderers, the general new intake was 400 Series with the ■■■■■■■ 250 and B Series ERFs with the 265 Rolls. Because of the problems with the Buffaloes, BL provided four new Marathons, painted up in P&O blue, to compensate for the downtime.
Just like to say that our foreign cousins were not bombproof either. If ,having read the Astrans book by Ashley Coghill the great swedes were not prone to problems either.Being involved in the car industry now,if Rover had been subservient to Honda they would still be working today.The British lorry industry has never been supported by councils,Newport corporation have run Scanias since the 70s,they should be buying Dennis.In Vancouver prior to the Olympics on a ski lift I spotted a Plaxton bodied Dennis bus. Spoke to one of the locals and he confirmed they had a fleet of British Buses ,more flexible than they could get .Could anyone today have the balls to produce a new AEC,ERF. I would suggest that if Peter Foden could not make it pay,why bother ,heavy industry needs to have public backing,after all councils are using our money!!!!Accountability comes from the backing of British built prouducts.All I can say there will be a small number of producers in the next 20 years possibly 3.Make your minds up.All governments are cutting back,but with some old hauliers and designers Iam sure a lorry could be produced for the next fifty years.They redesigned the Mini,VW Beetle for this century,why not a Retro Scania 141,VolvoF88,more appeal than these modern faceless things.I would have included British Lorries but we dont produce anything,unless government and councils are obliged to buy the product we don`t have a chance . Go to France and they run Renault.Go to Germany and they run Mercedes.Go to Italy and they run Iveco.Go to Sweden and they run Scania.Go to Holland and they run Daf.Go to Britain (used to producee more lorries than any other country in the western world)we run the occasional Dennis dustcart.I rest my case.Regards Richard
richgriff:
Just like to say that our foreign cousins were not bombproof either. If ,having read the Astrans book by Ashley Coghill the great swedes were not prone to problems either.Being involved in the car industry now,if Rover had been subservient to Honda they would still be working today.The British lorry industry has never been supported by councils,Newport corporation have run Scanias since the 70s,they should be buying Dennis.In Vancouver prior to the Olympics on a ski lift I spotted a Plaxton bodied Dennis bus. Spoke to one of the locals and he confirmed they had a fleet of British Buses ,more flexible than they could get .Could anyone today have the balls to produce a new AEC,ERF. I would suggest that if Peter Foden could not make it pay,why bother ,heavy industry needs to have public backing,after all councils are using our money!!!!Accountability comes from the backing of British built prouducts.All I can say there will be a small number of producers in the next 20 years possibly 3.Make your minds up.All governments are cutting back,but with some old hauliers and designers Iam sure a lorry could be produced for the next fifty years.**[u]They redesigned the Mini,VW Beetle for this century[/u]**,why not a Retro Scania 141,VolvoF88,more appeal than these modern faceless things.I would have included British Lorries but we dont produce anything,unless government and councils are obliged to buy the product we don`t have a chance . Go to France and they run Renault.Go to Germany and they run Mercedes.Go to Italy and they run Iveco.Go to Sweden and they run Scania.Go to Holland and they run Daf.Go to Britain (used to producee more lorries than any other country in the western world)we run the occasional Dennis dustcart.I rest my case.Regards Richard
The current MINI and Beetle have nothing to do with the original products and are just cynical marketing exercises - successful - but basically new (lardy) vehicles with none of the innovation or character of the originals.
We have only just lost vehicles that had ERF and Foden on the front whihc had very little to do with the original products~!
richgriff:
Just like to say that our foreign cousins were not bombproof either. If ,having read the Astrans book by Ashley Coghill the great swedes were not prone to problems either.Being involved in the car industry now,if Rover had been subservient to Honda they would still be working today.The British lorry industry has never been supported by councils,Newport corporation have run Scanias since the 70s,they should be buying Dennis.In Vancouver prior to the Olympics on a ski lift I spotted a Plaxton bodied Dennis bus. Spoke to one of the locals and he confirmed they had a fleet of British Buses ,more flexible than they could get .Could anyone today have the balls to produce a new AEC,ERF. I would suggest that if Peter Foden could not make it pay,why bother ,heavy industry needs to have public backing,after all councils are using our money!!!!Accountability comes from the backing of British built prouducts.All I can say there will be a small number of producers in the next 20 years possibly 3.Make your minds up.All governments are cutting back,but with some old hauliers and designers Iam sure a lorry could be produced for the next fifty years.They redesigned the Mini,VW Beetle for this century,why not a Retro Scania 141,VolvoF88,more appeal than these modern faceless things.I would have included British Lorries but we dont produce anything,unless government and councils are obliged to buy the product we don`t have a chance . Go to France and they run Renault.Go to Germany and they run Mercedes.Go to Italy and they run Iveco.Go to Sweden and they run Scania.Go to Holland and they run Daf.Go to Britain (used to producee more lorries than any other country in the western world)we run the occasional Dennis dustcart.I rest my case.Regards Richard
I work for a local authority, and run a large fleet of mowing machines, tractors, light commercial vehicles and one 15 tonne grab lorry.
I have just ordered 20 new Fords - Transits, Transit Connects and Rangers. In 2008 I bought a British built Scarab sweeper.
I am also buying 15 British built Ransomes ride on mowers. But the 15 tonner will have to be a Daf as no British built HGVs are available.
We try whenever possible to buy British, we even try to buy as close to the borough as we can. We bought four New Holland tractors, but due to the fact that they were just under 100hp they were made in Italy. (Sightly bigger and they would have been built in Essex). I replaced the New Zealand made tractor mowers with Irish built Majors and again British built Ransomes.
The vehicles and machines we are replacing are Japanese (Isuzu & Kubota) French (John Deere/Renault) LDV (British) and German (VW)
We have to weigh up price, suitability, durability, availability of spares and reliability, for every item I put my name to I have to write a detailed four page business case which then has to be signed off by 5 senior officers, then if and when the capital is released I have to get that signed off 6 times.
If councillors get involved it can seriously harm the proceedings, as they generally don’t have a clue what they are talking about, so you have to spend time trying to convince them that you’re not buying a certain make or brand because the dealer has bought you a yacht. It’s like digging a tunnel with a spoon.
I’m not that patriotic, I have German motorbikes and Swedish cars, I’m just interested in getting the best tools for the job and using local dealer support, and in these cases I’m pleased to say we’re mainly buying British.
The bottom line is that they kit needs to be cost effective. Would you still be so insistent on councils buying British if it meant you would be paying 20% more council tax?
fryske:
Bender:
fryske:
Bender:
I’ve been waiting for ages to use the phrase ‘great looking beaver’…It’s an Octopus.
I know. I’m still waiting. (eight wheels = eight legs - easy)
well, in memory of the great Leslie Neilson - here’s a well-stuffed Beaver
Leyland Interim Beaver RC9098 by fryske, on Flickr
I like it!
Here’s another great looking Beaver…
(My image of a Leyland Beaver artic has disappeared…)
So why couldn`t Leyland with all their experience in the lorry manufacturing buisness produce a F88 or a 110. Surely someone from AEC,Leyland,Scammell or GUY could see what the foreigners were producing and fight back.the Marathon was a massive improvement on the Mandator/Buffalo but with a bit more development and refinement could have been even better.I dont think it was any worse than the 400 SA or the B series ERF .The problem was it was rushed through with little investment .With all the investment put into the Roadtrain was it a good lorry ?
ramone:
So why couldn`t Leyland with all their experience in the lorry manufacturing buisness produce a F88 or a 110. Surely someone from AEC,Leyland,Scammell or GUY could see what the foreigners were producing and fight back.the Marathon was a massive improvement on the Mandator/Buffalo but with a bit more development and refinement could have been even better.I dont think it was any worse than the 400 SA or the B series ERF .The problem was it was rushed through with little investment .With all the investment put into the Roadtrain was it a good lorry ?
I couldn’t really answer that, I was moving out of the industry at about the same time that the industry was folding, but if it’s anything like the British motorcycle industry it was their unwillingness to adapt to the times and compete with the opposition.
We do now (and for the past 20 years) have a thriving mass British bike manufacturer - John Bloor’s Triumph goes from strength to strength.
Foden, post Paccar were just as bad; great trucks for the tipper market, but God they never really changed much cab-wise from 1980-2000. When I drive one of our 6 wheel 4000s on V or W regs, they aren’t really much different inside to the D reg that Dad had. Can’t remember who, but someone told me British manufacturers seemed to have an arrogance about them; “We’re British so they’ll buy British…”
Muckaway:
Foden, post Paccar were just as bad; great trucks for the tipper market, but God they never really changed much cab-wise from 1980-2000. When I drive one of our 6 wheel 4000s on V or W regs, they aren’t really much different inside to the D reg that Dad had. Can’t remember who, but someone told me British manufacturers seemed to have an arrogance about them; “We’re British so they’ll buy British…”
I quite liked the Foden i had it was a 1986 but had the flat roof so at 6`5 headroom was limited,i think it was Leylands attitude towards the customer which was arrogant ,i read AECs attitude was totally opposite
Don’t know why but Smiths never bought AECs or Scammells yet would buy Leyland and Guys. When Godfrey Smith ran the lorry side, he’d buy from various makers I presume to keep the manufacturers on their toes. Drivers were grateful for a new lorry regardless, but you were well though of to get a Foden instead of Leyland 
Come on chaps,vehicles have improved since this drivers day 
.
I think that complacency had a lot to do with BL’s problems, as well as lots of other British industries.
After the war, old lorry/bus/car model ranges were updated incorporating lessons learned during wartime. Those vehicles were as good as they needed to be at the time. We had punitive import duties to keep out most of the foreign-made products, and had a large enough captive market in our own Commonwealth, where a simple, reliable vehicle was all that was required. This state of affairs continued into the sixties, despite us having a rapidly-contracting Empire. As part of our preparations to join the Common Market, those import restrictions had to be relaxed, and some of the European manufacturers dipped a toe into our markets. When we became full members of the Common Market, we discovered that the playing field was not as level as had been promised, and that cunning Johnnie Foreigner had been developing vehicles which were really quite good while we weren’t watching. Europeans were rightly reluctant to buy antiquated, inferior tackle - often with an unacceptably long delivery time. Instead of fighting back, we went on strike. Along came Maggie, who sold off all that was worthwhile and shut down most of the rest. The British motor industry certainly did need some thinning out, there was too much duplication in too many ranges. The Leyland group had become simply too big. “Badge Engineering” wasn’t the answer, but you don’t cure an industry by killing it. It has to have strong, outward-looking management, prepared to fight for investment in research and development, even when it involves taking steps into untried technology. Instead, what we had (and have even more today) was the priority for management to have multi-million pound paydeals and golden handshake payoffs even when the company is failing. Is there any wonder we are where we are today?
Happy New Year!
Austin metro vs VW golf , roadtrain vs 112 - it’s a no brainer
fryske:
richgriff:
Just like to say that our foreign cousins were not bombproof either. If ,having read the Astrans book by Ashley Coghill the great swedes were not prone to problems either.Being involved in the car industry now,if Rover had been subservient to Honda they would still be working today.The British lorry industry has never been supported by councils,Newport corporation have run Scanias since the 70s,they should be buying Dennis.In Vancouver prior to the Olympics on a ski lift I spotted a Plaxton bodied Dennis bus. Spoke to one of the locals and he confirmed they had a fleet of British Buses ,more flexible than they could get .Could anyone today have the balls to produce a new AEC,ERF. I would suggest that if Peter Foden could not make it pay,why bother ,heavy industry needs to have public backing,after all councils are using our money!!!!Accountability comes from the backing of British built prouducts.All I can say there will be a small number of producers in the next 20 years possibly 3.Make your minds up.All governments are cutting back,but with some old hauliers and designers Iam sure a lorry could be produced for the next fifty years.**[u]They redesigned the Mini,VW Beetle for this century[/u]**,why not a Retro Scania 141,VolvoF88,more appeal than these modern faceless things.I would have included British Lorries but we dont produce anything,unless government and councils are obliged to buy the product we don`t have a chance . Go to France and they run Renault.Go to Germany and they run Mercedes.Go to Italy and they run Iveco.Go to Sweden and they run Scania.Go to Holland and they run Daf.Go to Britain (used to producee more lorries than any other country in the western world)we run the occasional Dennis dustcart.I rest my case.Regards RichardThe current MINI and Beetle have nothing to do with the original products and are just cynical marketing exercises - successful - but basically new (lardy) vehicles with none of the innovation or character of the originals.
We have only just lost vehicles that had ERF and Foden on the front whihc had very little to do with the original products~!
Always thought those MANs with the ERF badge were the only ERFs I’d be happy to drive…
Nowt wrong with an ERF EC11…
fodenway:
I think that complacency had a lot to do with BL’s problems, as well as lots of other British industries.
After the war, old lorry/bus/car model ranges were updated incorporating lessons learned during wartime. Those vehicles were as good as they needed to be at the time. We had punitive import duties to keep out most of the foreign-made products, and had a large enough captive market in our own Commonwealth, where a simple, reliable vehicle was all that was required. This state of affairs continued into the sixties, despite us having a rapidly-contracting Empire. As part of our preparations to join the Common Market, those import restrictions had to be relaxed, and some of the European manufacturers dipped a toe into our markets. When we became full members of the Common Market, we discovered that the playing field was not as level as had been promised, and that cunning Johnnie Foreigner had been developing vehicles which were really quite good while we weren’t watching. Europeans were rightly reluctant to buy antiquated, inferior tackle - often with an unacceptably long delivery time. Instead of fighting back, we went on strike. Along came Maggie, who sold off all that was worthwhile and shut down most of the rest. The British motor industry certainly did need some thinning out, there was too much duplication in too many ranges. The Leyland group had become simply too big. “Badge Engineering” wasn’t the answer, but you don’t cure an industry by killing it. It has to have strong, outward-looking management, prepared to fight for investment in research and development, even when it involves taking steps into untried technology. Instead, what we had (and have even more today) was the priority for management to have multi-million pound paydeals and golden handshake payoffs even when the company is failing. Is there any wonder we are where we are today?
Happy New Year!
Yep - similar woes with Land Rover
They were having a laugh if they though the Series 3 was any competitor to the Japanese vehicles.