Why all the concern with reversing exercise?

[steevo25]

Hi All,

I wanted to post here about this even though I may get shot down for it. After all, it’s just an opinion.

Just lately, everywhere I read, there are strong concerns about the reversing exercise being taken out the test and left to the training centre. I just cannot understand why this is felt as a safety concern and lead to inferior HGV drivers. I am talking specifically about class 2 here.

I got my class 2 license a little over a year ago now and although I had very few issues with the reverse exercise, and passed the test first time, I just considered the reverse exercise a complete waste of time and, certainly in the jobs I have had, no way representative of the real world.

Obviously, I only trained with one training organisation that did come highly recommended at the time and I certainly thought they were professional and thorough at the time, the reverse exercise was purely to pass a HGV test. I took almost nothing away from the reverse training that has helped in real life driving.

Purely how to follow a line and then use a marker on the back to get in to an imaginary loading bay.

I have always found reversing to be the hardest part of driving a lorry. After I passed my test, I even asked a few training centres in my area if they did a specific course on reversing that just gave tips and advice on reversing in specific situations. No one seems to offer any courses that cover this.

I have been driving just over a year now doing multidrop and although the majority of my drops involve reversing in one sense or another, I have never come up against anything where what I learnt for the test gave me any benefit at all.

I just cannot see how removing this from the test is going to create any safety concerns. Reversing is going to be an experience learning thing regardless of whether you pass it in the test.

Most of the people I know who did fail reversing first time in the test, did it easily and successfully virtually every time when they did it in training so failing it on the test does not necessarily mean you cannot do it. It’s so easy to fail the reversing on the test just due to nerves, or just not getting it right on the day.

I certainly do feel that more emphasis should be placed on reverse training as I really do feel it’s the hardest thing to master when driving for real.

[juddian]

Couldn’t agree more.

The test reverse is useless and has been for years, far better to have some specific multi scenario maneuvering training and practice so you, the new driver, feel confident to place the vehicle somewhere thereabouts, there won’t be any markers os specific number of turns when you see a bollard out in the real world, it will all be down to judgement and practice.

[rog]

The reverse exercise especially for CE is to install the principals of trailer reversing
It is not designed to do anything other than that

Trainers could and would do much more BUT how much extra is a trainee willing to pay for that

[fightingpeacock]

Having just passed my test Friday just gone id been flying through the reverse whenever I did it during the week but for the test I was told I had to pull and push the steering instead of palming it as I had in the weeks training but I do feel that more training should be given during the training process instead of the maximum of an hour during the whole weeks training.

I think that they should offer a couple of different scenarios

[steevo25]

I, for one, would have been more than happy to have paid for a specific reversing course.

I can still remember the first real life reverse I had to do. It was in a police workshop. Very few spaces to spin the lorry around and even those were very tight.

I spent 10 minutes looking for the line I was supposed to follow

I did do 4 days training for class 1 but unfortunately, the test on the last day was cancelled due to an examiner testing positive for COVID and the centre being closed. I have not yet been back to complete it.

I actually found reversing an artic easier for some reason (maybe because I was used to towing caravans). And even with that, there was a set procedure with markings on the trailer that if followed, would almost certainly get you in every time.

The only real life reverse training I had on class 1 was when I accidentally took the wrong exit from a roundabout and ended up in a dead end road. Even then, the instructor guided me back from outside the vehicle.

[rearaxle]

I, for one, would have been more than happy to have paid for a specific reversing course.

Why didn’t you then?.

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[steevo25]

No one did a course in reversing. Certainly not anywhere near me. I did inquire at 3 training centres around me but no one had a prepared reversing course.

I am sure, in normal times, they would have probably arranged something and gave me an instructor for a day (for a fee). But considering most had waiting lists for training, I had no chance.

[pete_s]

Very few folks are willing to pay for additional tuition in any skill, whether economical driving, reversing, whatever. Passing the test is seen as the target and that is totally understandable.

The reversing exercise is nothing like a real world reverse. But the principles of observation, control and accuracy still apply. So it has a value - albeit limited and imperfect.

Moving the exercise away from the driving test wont provide the opportunity for trainers to offer anything different on test. It’s exactly the same as it’s been for the last few years.

Pete S

[terry_cooksey]

The reversing exercise in its current form teaches the principles of reversing and being able to maneuver the vehicle in both directions while moving backwards, even if it just a small amount.
As has been said though, it is not the most lifelike reversing exercise they could have done, as it is effectively a parallel park maneuver, and a bay park would be more useful to almost every driver, however to do that on the test would require a lot more space that most training providers simply don’t have.

Also, to have the same effectiveness as to show reversing both directions, you would have to do a reverse on both your good and blind sides, so would also take longer to teach and test, while increasing the liklihood of failures.

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[trucker2021]

I am unfortunately one of these people moaning like a little girl about this reverse situation, I failed in august because my marker on the mudguard had moved on test day, having smashed it both days of my training I went in nervous but slightly confident now I’m petrified of it going wrong for me again as I feel the the only thing I could fail on… I’m literally scaling
YT and wherever I can for clues to help me… one thing that’s haunting me is my examiner saying “you’ve even gone passed the cone” (front of the garage) I wasn’t told to use it in any way to help me…

[pete_s]

Firstly, remember you can get out and check your stopping position. If you’re short, you can move it back (it’s not a shunt) but you cannot then get out and check again.

Also note that gently touching the barrier is a pass. Shoving at it will become an issue.

Another plus is that, from tomorrow, you can do the reverse as a separate test. And that’s a lot less money on the line just in case it goes wrong again. Having passed the reverse test, otherwise known as 3a, you have 6 months to do the rest of the driving test - 3b.

Good luck, Pete S

[trucker2021]

Pete S:
Firstly, remember you can get out and check your stopping position. If you’re short, you can move it back (it’s not a shunt) but you cannot then get out and check again.

Also note that gently touching the barrier is a pass. Shoving at it will become an issue.

Another plus is that, from tomorrow, you can do the reverse as a separate test. And that’s a lot less money on the line just in case it goes wrong again. Having passed the reverse test, otherwise known as 3a, you have 6 months to do the rest of the driving test - 3b.

Good luck, Pete S

Yeah “shoving” it is what I did in august because of the measurements changing because of the peg moving…

Oh yeah I didn’t see the change as being like that in terms of a less risk of losing the money but i was aware of tomorrow’s changes just wondering if my driving school is going to jump on board

[pete_s]

I am unfortunately one of these people moaning like a little girl about this reverse situation, I failed in august because my marker on the mudguard had moved on test day, having smashed it both days of my training I went in nervous but slightly confident now I’m petrified of it going wrong for me again as I feel the the only thing I could fail on… I’m literally scaling
YT and wherever I can for clues to help me… one thing that’s haunting me is my examiner saying “you’ve even gone passed the cone” (front of the garage) I wasn’t told to use it in any way to help me…

If you end up a bit further back than you were hoping, stop as soon as you see the feet at the base of the barrier start lifting. If you stop quick enough, that’s fine. But keep pushing and it aint.

just wondering if my driving school is going to jump on board

They have to satisfy 3 criteria:

1. Correctly surfaced and marked reversing area
2. Organisational integrity
3. Trainers who have passed the assessment process with DVSA

Some will be able to do this, others wont. But you can still take your 3a test at another trainer’s premises using your current trainer’s vehicle. Or you can go to the public test centre and get it done. eg. PSTT is accepting bookings from other trainers who, for whatever reason, cant jump the hurdles.

Pete S

[trucker2021]

Pete S:

I am unfortunately one of these people moaning like a little girl about this reverse situation, I failed in august because my marker on the mudguard had moved on test day, having smashed it both days of my training I went in nervous but slightly confident now I’m petrified of it going wrong for me again as I feel the the only thing I could fail on… I’m literally scaling
YT and wherever I can for clues to help me… one thing that’s haunting me is my examiner saying “you’ve even gone passed the cone” (front of the garage) I wasn’t told to use it in any way to help me…

If you end up a bit further back than you were hoping, stop as soon as you see the feet at the base of the barrier start lifting. If you stop quick enough, that’s fine. But keep pushing and it aint.

just wondering if my driving school is going to jump on board

They have to satisfy 3 criteria:

1. Correctly surfaced and marked reversing area
2. Organisational integrity
3. Trainers who have passed the assessment process with DVSA

Some will be able to do this, others wont. But you can still take your 3a test at another trainer’s premises using your current trainer’s vehicle. Or you can go to the public test centre and get it done. eg. PSTT is accepting bookings from other trainers who, for whatever reason, cant jump the hurdles.

Pete S

I’m just to hope it stays in the correct position this time on the spray suppression but I do plan to check it and check it again

[wheel_nut]

The main reason the old reversing test was done like it was was more about land prices. The testing station yard had to have enough room to operate a Tapley Meter, so the vehicle had to reach 20mph and stop again without going through the perimeter fence.

The strip of land had to be wide enough to turn around and do the handbrake test, or they would drive up a concrete ramp to test the hand brake. The reversing test was set up so the three basic tests could be completed. In most of Continental Europe the driving exercises are completed off road on a specially designed driving school track, cheaper land prices perhaps.

[pete_s]

Tapley Meter

I’m surprised no-one has asked what a Tapley Meter is.

The meter is used to measure braking force and was typically used prior to the use of rolling road brake testing.

The disadvantage is that is doesn’t tell the operator which brake is doing what. Just overall performance.

I’ve tried various ways of describing it and I’ve given up. Even tried to copy a picture and even that doesn’t work haha.

But Google is your friend.

Pete S