I keep hearing of the drivers and operators are both responsible for keeping driving records etc, and if the driver fails to produce tacho’s the company and the driver may have to go to court, but i cannot find it written in any legal document, i need a legal reference number, article, appendix etc, to show that it is both parties responsibility, any links? thanks,
fordino:
I keep hearing of the drivers and operators are both responsible for keeping driving records etc, and if the driver fails to produce tacho’s the company and the driver may have to go to court, but i cannot find it written in any legal document, i need a legal reference number, article, appendix etc, to show that it is both parties responsibility, any links? thanks,
If you mean who’s responsibility it is to produce the driving records at a road-side check then I would say it’s solely the drivers responsibility to be able to produce the records.
Whilst a company has an obligation to make sure that you’re aware of the regulations it’s not their job to baby sit a driver, every driver should know what they need to produce and should ensure that they can produce the required documents or accept the consequences.
It’s a drivers responsibility to carry the records for the current day and the past 28 days + the driver card if one is held and these are what should be available at a road-side check.
I assume this has something to do with your other thread where you say you should have been fined for not producing a letter of attestation rather than for not carrying 6 days of records.
Why were you not able to produce the records?
I had spent the 23 december to 3 rd january at my parents house in france, christmas holiday, the truck was parked at a routier several miles away, I was stopped by police on 9th jan and asked to produce the missing 6 cards, or a letter of attestation I had neither, I made a statement to the police saying I could produce witnesses in a french court to say I never returned to the truck nor was I on duty/driving another vehicle. I keep a written log of dates/miles etc, but the police would not accept this, I was not detained, charged or arrested, but the truck immobolised until the bond/deposit paid.my ex employer will not contest the charge and I cannot as an employee,(french law, it’s against the company), he is taking me to a uk court to get the €4200 off me! In the last 7 years i have never written on a tacho stating time on/off duty and have never been instructed to do so by the employer, I have never left a tacho in for 24/45hour breaks when i am not in the truck or on duty. I have never had a problem by french police before. I can’t see how a uk county court caan judge this, my ex employer may have already received money back from the french court, the fine may have been €750 for not producing a letter of attestation etc,
OK, thanks for the explanation, I can now see why you’re complaining about it.
I don’t work outside of the UK so can’t comment on what’s usual practice in France.
I can only wish you luck and hope it works out for you, let us know how you get on 
fordino:
I was not detained, charged or arrested, but the truck immobolised until the bond/deposit paid.my ex employer will not contest the charge and I cannot as an employee,(french law, it’s against the company), he is taking me to a uk court to get the €4200 off me!.. I can’t see how a uk county court caan judge this, my ex employer may have already received money back from the french court, the fine may have been €750 for not producing a letter of attestation etc,
If what you say is correct then its highly unlikeley that a UK court will make you liable for something your employer was liable for i.e the fine, release fee or what ever it is. If it was legally his responsability then he’s no chance of getting a court to make you liable. Maybe moreso when a letter of attestation from him could/would of prevented the whole scenario. YOU have to pay what YOU’ve been fined, no what HE has been fined. I wouldn;t lose any sleep over it.
Thanks for your replies, the only bu**er is that i will have to drive up from france 300 miles, pay for a ferry and accomodation and lose wages just to go to court! knowing my luck the court will find us both guilty and wont be able to claim expenses!!! oh yeah, and he still owes me ten days wages! i can only blame myself for working for him!!! will let you know the result next tuesday!!
fordino:
Thanks for your replies, the only bu**er is that i will have to drive up from france 300 miles, pay for a ferry and accomodation and lose wages just to go to court! knowing my luck the court will find us both guilty and wont be able to claim expenses!!! oh yeah, and he still owes me ten days wages! i can only blame myself for working for him!!! will let you know the result next tuesday!!
Might work out cheaper for you to make a phone call and send a brief to represent you?
fordino:
I had spent the 23 december to 3 rd january at my parents house in france, christmas holiday, the truck was parked at a routier several miles away, I was stopped by police on 9th jan and asked to produce the missing 6 cards, or a letter of attestation I had neither, I made a statement to the police saying I could produce witnesses in a french court to say I never returned to the truck nor was I on duty/driving another vehicle. I keep a written log of dates/miles etc, but the police would not accept this, I was not detained, charged or arrested, but the truck immobolised until the bond/deposit paid.my ex employer will not contest the charge and I cannot as an employee,(french law, it’s against the company), he is taking me to a uk court to get the €4200 off me! In the last 7 years i have never written on a tacho stating time on/off duty and have never been instructed to do so by the employer, I have never left a tacho in for 24/45hour breaks when i am not in the truck or on duty. I have never had a problem by french police before. I can’t see how a uk county court caan judge this, my ex employer may have already received money back from the french court, the fine may have been €750 for not producing a letter of attestation etc,
If you dont know what the company has paid or received back, then I doubt a UK court will simply take his word for it either. If you have been fined for not having an attestation, then that is down to the company, the days of a driver carrying a few spares have gone
You haven’t explained why you could not produce the 6 cards, the ones between the 3rd of January and the 9th of January when you were stopped. Your written log of dates/miles etc are not worth the paper they are written on.
So without official documents and receipts, a UK court is going to laugh this out of court in my opinion.
i was able to produce all cards upto the 9th of jan, except the ones from 23rd to the 3rd jan when i was on holiday at my parents. the end mileage when i stopped on the 23rd was the same as the start mileage on 3rd jan, the french police needed proof that i never drove another truck during these dates! the only way of proving this was with a letter of attestation,
The way I read this you were, at the time, driving for a UK company doing work in France and possibly other EU countries.
Now i’m assuming that your company did regular work within the EU and you had approval from your company to have the Xmas break in France. If that were the case then surely either yourself or somebody within the company should have realised that an attestation would be required for the period if your Xmas break. The other option would have been to keep tacho records of your entire xmas break.
France in particular has been pedantic about these attestations for years now and it is well documented that this document is required and the pitfalls of not having one. The attestation is to confirm that you as a driver have not done any other work in the documented period. On my last euro job we were given them to cover every period of time off where there was no tacho record.
Now in the unlikely event that your ex employer actually managed to take action against you it might be worth pointing out to them that they should have known about the requirement for an attestation. The fact that you were not supplied with one could show a negligence on their part.
Cheers
Neilf
Just a quick thanks to everyone, i managed to find the EU regulation that says the employer is respocnsible for all infringements accured by the drivers in the UK and abroad, went to court and the judge thru it out, my ex employer had to pay my travel expenses to attend court and my wages he held back,
for once the court is on the drivers side!
i had advice from a vosa chap, which was if you are on holiday get a blank tacho,and write on it manually holidays with the dates you were off ,seems daft but they will accept this,or a written record e.g. a diary…uk only sorry them french frogs. 