Have been a Terberg Shunter for 3 Years. I work at a food retail distribution hub. A service road divides the trailer park from the main warehouse loading bays. I have worked dayshifts of 10 hours duration including Sundays. I have now been asked to work 20.00 to 06.00 hrs. So am I covered by the Worktime Directive which prohibits a daily limit to 8 hours per shift/ 48 hours over six nights - or the Transport Working Time Regulations which limits night work to 10 hours per shift? The Terberg tug is classed as plant, has no tachograph runs on red diesel, is limited to max speed of 20mph, is not plated or needs an MOT, has no gears and is not recorded on the operators licence as it is not a goods vehicle.
The company insist that I come under the TWTR and not WTD. Which regulations to I have to abide by?
jaisatchit:
:?: Have been a Terberg Shunter for 3 Years. I work at a food retail distribution hub. A service road divides the trailer park from the main warehouse loading bays. I have worked dayshifts of 10 hours duration including Sundays. I have now been asked to work 20.00 to 06.00 hrs. So am I covered by the Worktime Directive which prohibits a daily limit to 8 hours per shift/ 48 hours over six nights - or the Transport Working Time Regulations which limits night work to 10 hours per shift? The Terberg tug is classed as plant, has no tachograph runs on red diesel, is limited to max speed of 20mph, is not plated or needs an MOT, has no gears and is not recorded on the operators licence as it is not a goods vehicle.
The company insist that I come under the TWTR and not WTD. Which regulations to I have to abide by?
You do not come under the RT(WT)R as you’re not a mobile worker, you work to the general WTD but my understanding of the regulation is that you as an individual can opt out of it at any time you like, the opt out should be in writing.
By the way the WTD does not limit you to 8 hours per 24 hour period not does it limit you to a limit of 48 hours per week, it limits you to an average of 8 hours per 24 hour period and an average of 48 hour per week over the reference period.
How about this. If the night work involves ‘special hazards or heavy physical or mental strain’, then a strict 8-hour time limit is imposed on working time in each 24-hour period and no averaging is allowed over a reference period.
Note that there are no ‘opt-outs’ to working time regulations for night workers.
jaisatchit:
How about this. If the night work involves ‘special hazards or heavy physical or mental strain’, then a strict 8-hour time limit is imposed on working time in each 24-hour period and no averaging is allowed over a reference period.Note that there are no ‘opt-outs’ to working time regulations for night workers.
In order to (hopefully 
) help tachograph, I’ve found the source of the part you made red:
For my 2p worth, I think the part you made red can be argued one way or another until the cows come home.
I like their jargon buster definition of “reference period” You couldn’t make it up!!! 
jaisatchit:
How about this. If the night work involves ‘special hazards or heavy physical or mental strain’, then a strict 8-hour time limit is imposed on working time in each 24-hour period and no averaging is allowed over a reference period.
How does that apply to someone driving a tug for a food distribution firm 
jaisatchit:
Note that there are no ‘opt-outs’ to working time regulations for night workers.
I havn’t been able to find any such rule in the 1998 working time regulations.
I did however find this:
6.–(1) A night worker’s normal hours of work in any reference period which is applicable in his case shall not exceed an average of eight hours for each 24 hours.
A collective agreement or a workforce agreement may–
(a)modify or exclude the application of regulations 6(1) to (3) and (7), 10(1), 11(1) and (2) and 12(1), and
This suggests to me that the night time working limit can be opted out of.
I gather from your post that you either don’t want to work nights or don’t want to opt out of the working limits which is fair enough either way, but I don’t think your current argument will stand you in good stead mate … sorry 
dieseldave:
In order to (hopefully
Thanks Dave, I haven’t been able to find in the working time regulations the part that says there’s no opt out of the night time limit, in fact it seems to say just the opposite as far as I can see.
Either I’ve missed something or the TUC are making it up to suit themselves
Thanks for the information, and no, I would prefer to work nights - without contravening any law. This is the website I that lifted the regulations from:
direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/ … G_10028519
One of the shunters is off work with stress, the company doctor put him on sick leave with full pay.
Worksmart website does mention no opt-out as follows ‘‘Note that there are no ‘opt-outs’ to working time regulations for night workers’’.
As far as I can see both of those sites seem to contradict what the regulations say, check out the Working Time Regulations 1998, and more specifically the Length of Night work and Collective and Workforce Agreements
I’m thinking that the WORKSMART site has one or two little gremlins at work.
Here’s a link:
http://www.worksmart.org.uk/rights/are_there_special_working_time_arrangements_for
If you click that link, you get this:
An employer shall take all reasonable steps to ensure that the normal working hours of a night worker do not exceed an average of 8 hours in any 24-hour period. This is averaged over a 17-week reference period. A night worker is a person who normally works at least 3 hours during nighttime (nighttime is defined as between 11pm and 6am). If the night work involves ‘special hazards or heavy physical or mental strain’, then a strict 8-hour time limit is imposed on working time in each 24-hour period and no averaging is allowed over a reference period.
If you click the word “reference” (on the actual WORKSMART webpage,) you get this:
reference
Usually written but can be verbal, report by a past employer, or from a school or college, or a responsible impartial adult, of the abilities of a job applicant to do the job for which they are applying, or a statement on how they did their previous job
A “reference” (as per their own explanation) is absolutely nothing to do with a “reference period.”
This is the line I am particularily concerned with:
If the night work involves ‘special hazards or heavy physical or mental strain’, then a strict 8-hour time limit is imposed on working time in each 24-hour period and no averaging is allowed over a reference period.
The reference period as far as I understand it would be 8 hours x 6 days = 48 hours.
Anyways, I’m off to see the Unite branch officer asap to get this sorted once and for all!
Cheers!
jaisatchit:
If the night work involves ‘special hazards or heavy physical or mental strain’, then a strict 8-hour time limit is imposed on working time in each 24-hour period and no averaging is allowed over a reference period.
I’m obviously missing something but driving a tug isn’t a heavy physical or mental strain and I don’t understand what hazards could be involved
Anyway to be honest no-one give a [zb] about the WTD so personally if I wanted to do the shifts I’d just do them, it’s not like it can have any effect on your LGV license if you’ve got one.
Whatever you decide to do, good luck
tachograph:
jaisatchit:
If the night work involves ‘special hazards or heavy physical or mental strain’, then a strict 8-hour time limit is imposed on working time in each 24-hour period and no averaging is allowed over a reference period.I’m obviously missing something but driving a tug isn’t a heavy physical or mental strain and I don’t understand what hazards could be involved
Anyway to be honest no-one give a [zb] about the WTD so personally if I wanted to do the shifts I’d just do them, it’s not like it can have any effect on your LGV license if you’ve got one.
Whatever you decide to do, good luck
‘‘Ignorance of the law is no defense’’