So I’m just wondering what type of gear box you’d normally find these days, as I see a lot of people arguing about whether you should learn in an auto or manual or a semi automatic
We have both autos & manuals at work this is on both C & CE some of them not that old either most 60 plate or newer
True story: we had another new manual Iveco delivered early 2013. Asked the salesman how many manuals he’d sold in the previous 12 months since we bought the one before. Answer was ONE. And that was the one we’d bought before. All the others were auto. At this point we changed our policy to buying autos and we’ve had 5 since then.
Of course there’s plenty of manuals about. But it’s my educated guess that there’s as many autos.
So far as training goes, there’s no right and wrong. Without a doubt it’s easier on an auto. It’s also better preparation for the “real” world if you learn on a manual. But if you don’t pass the test, the “real” world becomes irrelevant.
It’s each to their own. We’ve got a mixed fleet so have no axe to grind. Totally the customer’s choice.
Pete 
You could always get the stupid Hybrid OptiCruise crap that my new Scania has!
What a pain at times it is.
Should be either full manual or full auto, not in between dross lol
Can be a nightmare in city centres if you have to stop suddenly and then try to set off again in a gap just to get faced with no gears and an annoying ‘clutch down’ message!
Peter Smythe:
True story: we had another new manual Iveco delivered early 2013. Asked the salesman how many manuals he’d sold in the previous 12 months since we bought the one before. Answer was ONE. And that was the one we’d bought before. All the others were auto. At this point we changed our policy to buying autos and we’ve had 5 since then.Of course there’s plenty of manuals about. But it’s my educated guess that there’s as many autos.
So far as training goes, there’s no right and wrong. Without a doubt it’s easier on an auto. It’s also better preparation for the “real” world if you learn on a manual. But if you don’t pass the test, the “real” world becomes irrelevant.
It’s each to their own. We’ve got a mixed fleet so have no axe to grind. Totally the customer’s choice.
Pete
I think that answers my question then 
dcgpx:
You could always get the stupid Hybrid OptiCruise crap that my new Scania has!What a pain at times it is.
Should be either full manual or full auto, not in between dross lol
Can be a nightmare in city centres if you have to stop suddenly and then try to set off again in a gap just to get faced with no gears and an annoying ‘clutch down’ message!
So are auto’s in HGV’s not that great then?
Volvo/Renault autos are beyond excellent.
DAF’s are shocking I think.
The rest I haven’t tried so no opinion.
austers:
So are auto’s in HGV’s not that great then?
No you just have that much more control with a manual and clutch… Your at a busy roundabout, you know the lights and traffic movement, you see that little gap you can grab, you put your foot down, oh wait this is an auto, that gap passes bye, and you continue to wait.
kjw21:
DAF’s are shocking I think.
Can only speak for 18tns here, been driving them, the last week, I think I have spent more time in nurtual then going forward or in reverse with a loud annoying noise, waiting for it to swap betwards directions. And I’ve just been given the a new one, the other thing I have noticed about these machines is the radios are ■■■■■■■ shocking! never picking up stations on any bandwidths…
Pretty much on par with the MAN tractor units.
dcgpx:
You could always get the stupid Hybrid OptiCruise crap that my new Scania has!What a pain at times it is.
Should be either full manual or full auto, not in between dross lol
Can be a nightmare in city centres if you have to stop suddenly and then try to set off again in a gap just to get faced with no gears and an annoying ‘clutch down’ message!
Totally agree hate them don’t see the point in them
Those three pedal Opticruise nonsense also have clutch savers which means it doesn’t let you rev it up too much. Ours are hopeless, thank god they stuck me in a Renault. Can’t be doing with a clutch pedal in an auto. I’d go as far to say that I have just as much control in my auto Renualt compared to a manual. Only times I’d ever have trouble is when I’m empty and on rough ground, then I start leaping about like an idiot.
Hi. Ive recently been given a new DAF 460 with auto box. After moaning to my boss, it seems that autos are now standard for new DAFs. Manuals are available on tractors as an extra cost option only. So to answer the original post, youll find newer trucks will be increasingly autos.
At first I really hated and despised this truck. After three months and 25k km (xmas hols off) I still think its totally unsuited to the type of work we do. Id willingly go back to my 8year old 800k km truck. I cant comment on other autos as Ive only used them for shorter trips (Renault). But the DAF auto box is truly horrible to use. It manages motorways & mainroads ok, provided you override the box and change down manually for hills if youre on full weight. Small roads with twists turns and steep gradients are only to be tackled in manual mode. But the switch gear is so vague you only know which gear youre in by continually checking the dash. Not good in a small village. Light loaded its fine but with a proper load on an interesting road its really hard work.
The latest addition to our fleet has a truly evil update… switch into manual, select gear, drive…but back off the gas and it will change back to auto and select some random cog out of the box! Hopefully that heap of stupidity “economy” mod is being lifted from it at next service.
As a point of interest we`ve had 5 units delivered over the past few months, and to my knowledge they have at least 3 different economy/gear selection set-ups. All with same 12 speed box and switches but different software.
I only really have experience of the vehicles on our fleet. We have a 12 speed Iveco which changes superbly and seamlessly. We also have a 6 speed Iveco which revs harder in each gear, obviously, but still picks up and goes with no effort. Both of these, although virtually new, have been re-mapped for greater bhp and it shows.
We also have a couple of MAN tractor units. These are both 12 speed. There is, without doubt, a bit of a lag on them until you know how to drive them. The knack (I’ve mentioned this before in another post) is, when slowing down on the approach to a hazard, just drive it gently for the last couple of yards. This will ensure that the lower gear is engaged. Then put your foot down and hold on tight. There is zero lag and there is no way you’ll end up loosing gaps at roundabouts etc. The TGS is a 400 so not underpowered and the TGX XXL is a 480 chipped to 540.
With the exception of Volvo/Renault (which hold the record for smooth operation) most other trucks are fitted with the ZF 12 speed. But they are mapped differently between manufacturers - I don’t know why. It’s important to realise that none of these trucks are actually automatic. They are manual boxes fitted with a box of tricks to change gear for you. Learn how to work with it, rather than against it, and you’ll never have an issue. I had been driving manual trucks for nearly 40 years before I touched these. I know which I would choose if I had a day’s work to do.
There are times when a manual has the edge eg off road. But most of us spend our time on tarmac.
But, to be clear, there is a valid case for training on manual as well.
Pete
The way I chose to learn was this:
Cat C 4 over 4 Manual
Cat C+E Auto
I felt this way it will give me a broader use of the different boxes.
Scania auto-excellent
Scania opti cruise- as already said, turd.
Volvo auto-excellent
Renault auto-excellent
Merc auto-turd
Man auto-turd
Daf auto-turd
Iveco- no idea, haven’t had the pleasure yet.
Peter…
[We also have a couple of MAN tractor units. These are both 12 speed. There is, without doubt, a bit of a lag on them until you know how to drive them. The knack (I’ve mentioned this before in another post) is, when slowing down on the approach to a hazard, just drive it gently for the last couple of yards. This will ensure that the lower gear is engaged. Then put your foot down and hold on tight. There is zero lag and there is no way you’ll end up loosing gaps at roundabouts etc.e]
That sounds better than the way my DAF is set up. When in auto, using the “engine brake”, i.e. dragging back the right hand stalk, the box will drop down to 9th quite quickly, then with use of foot brake slow to walking pace still in 9th ! To achieve the clean pull away you describe its necessary to switch to manual, or there will be a definite lag as you push the gas pedal, while the box sorts itself out. And as I put in previous post I really dont want to be looking at a screen to know what`s going on with my vehicle… I want to be looking out of the windscreen.
Sounds like the MAN is a better set up.
Thats how it works in all auto’s. If you are slowing down to for a roundabout, lift off the brake and dab the gas pedal, that should prompt the computer is change down to a more suitable gear. Also, the pedal is pressure sensitive so if you slam the pedal to the floor the computer will jump multiple gears which creates a lot of lag but if you press it lightly then the computer will change up at a more civilised pace.
If I floor my Renault then the box will rev the nuts off 4th gear then jump to 7th which is alright if you are empty but if you have some weight on then it causes problems as there is quite a delay for the box to find its way to 7th. However if I press it lightly then the box won’t rev as high which means there is a less of a gap between gear changes as it goes from 4th to 6th then to 8th etc.
All the clutch control is now done on your right foot. You can’t drive an auto like a manual and expect it to perform as such.
Radar19:
All the clutch control is now done on your right foot. You can’t drive an auto like a manual and expect it to perform as such.
This is true so you need to learn how to drive that vehicle
I mainly drive a MAN & don’t normally have a problem I do like the reverse as it does have 2 settings I normally use the slow setting as you have more control but it does go a lot slower
As an old soak my opinion will thankfully be as defunct as me in 5 years time, and these opinions apply to max weight stuff, its years since i drove a rigid.
As said, the Volvo box (fitted to Renaults) is good, helped by an engine with lots of low rev guts, its class leader by a long way.
Scania full auto is ok’ish, 3 pedal i found better for me because it means you keep full control over manoeuvers and traffic, either box best driven in manual and the box it must be said is very responsive to manual input, which is just as well cos you’ll need manual input on very steep hills at full weight or she’ll stall out on you, which is to be avoided at all costs.
Neither Volvo or Scania make a manual box worth mentioning so auto it is.
Now we come to the ZF Arsetronic, oh boy where does one begin i could write a book but you get the picture, fitted to DAF, MAN and Iveco, far as i’m concerned its unfit for purpose and whoever gave it type approval should be answering questions, it’ll cope with light work and flat easy manoeuvers, but give it some work to do such as tight blind-siders uphill and it’s utterly useless.
Pity because the 16 speed 4 over 4 then split manual box as found in DAF’s is a lovely box, coupled to a 460 DAF engine it’s as good a modern lorry as you can find for doing a days work with, similarly the manual box with easy clutch (switch on side of gearstick) known as ‘‘comfort shift’’ fitted to MAN’s was a good drive too.
Merc’s auto is about as much use as Arsetronic, yet the much insulted old shape Axor 430 fitted with the ‘‘slapover’’ 4 over 4 manual box is another highly underrated lorry again capable of some hard work, IMHO the auto option ruins an otherwise good lorry in a Merc.
Where i work we don’t a single manual box left, i won’t go into details but it has not resulted in any benefits, quite the opposite as we run full weight and have to get in some seriously tight places under full control, it aint happening.
As for my opinion about training in autos, i’m not a trainer but IMHO it’s wrong that auto testing should result in a manual licence, its further dumbing down of the training schemes and i can see no benefit at all, i know the idea of a driver being in control of a vehicle is fast going out of fashion, but it’s as valid now as it was when i took my test 40 years ago, the driver is in charge and will be (and will be held responsible when it all goes ■■■■ up when error 404 comes up) for decades to come, so again my opinion only, the new driver should be equipped with real hands on seat of the pants skills, so when things are starting to get out of shape the driver feels it and can take appropriate action long before it gets too far.
I did train drivers on car transporters for some years, and i made them put the biggest most awkward loads on that the vehicle could possibly carry, that way when they went out on their own together with my silly hand drawn loading sheets for reminders they would never come across a combination that could not be fitted because they knew the limitations and had been to the extremes, that put them in charge and not some numpty in an office telling them rubbish.
Didn’t think i’d get to this point but actually looking forward to packing it all now, for me there is no pleasure or lorry driver satisfaction in being behind the wheel of a modern automatic lorry, i wish some of you new lads could have enjoyed driving the vehicles and the myriad of different manual gearboxes i have, you would i have no doubt feel different if you could.
Well Juddian, if I ever meet you the drinks are on me. Youve pretty much summed up my feelings about autos. Seems its “the way of the future”, but as it raises the standards of some poorer driver, so it`s dragging down we better ones.
Obviously anyone who agrees with me, is a better driver, and any dissenters are poor!
it’ll cope with light work and flat easy manoeuvers, but give it some work to do such as tight blind-siders uphill and it’s utterly useless.
I’m not in a position to pass comment on this as I’ve never driven auto “in anger”.
I certainly agree that new drivers will miss out on the experience of some of the more “interesting” gearboxes. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing will always be up for debate though.
I believe it’s called progress. That doesn’t make it good - just inevitable.
I believe I’ve made my views on the topic quite clear so I’ll leave it alone now.
Pete