Were The Continental Lorry's Much Better?

With your knowledge of transport,both technical and operational.Why didn’t you set up in business as a haulier Carryfast :question: .
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Nearly did but got stopped by start up capital.
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I’m sure the Industry had been holding it’s breath until it got the good news though!!As well as the capital requirement you are also missing out the need to be “of good repute” so surely this would have knackered your application as well “carryfast”
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If I ever decide to start up in future Bewick I’m sure that you won’t mind providing a reference to the TC to help my application go through. :laughing:
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I’ve never purjured my-self on the odd occaision I’ve been somewhere “official” so there’s no way I would stand up and spout a pack of lies on your be-half CF!!!Bewick.
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What sector of the road haulage industry do you intend setting up in Carryfast :question:
Cheers Dave.
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This one. :wink: :smiley:

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=41082&start=60#p474530
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What you waiting for Carryfast.Go and buy your Kenworth :bulb: :laughing: .
Cheers Dave.

Dave the Renegade:
With your knowledge of transport,both technical and operational.Why didn’t you set up in business as a haulier Carryfast :question: .

Nearly did but got stopped by start up capital.
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I’m sure the Industry had been holding it’s breath until it got the good news though!!As well as the capital requirement you are also missing out the need to be “of good repute” so surely this would have knackered your application as well “carryfast”
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If I ever decide to start up in future Bewick I’m sure that you won’t mind providing a reference to the TC to help my application go through. :laughing:
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I’ve never purjured my-self on the odd occaision I’ve been somewhere “official” so there’s no way I would stand up and spout a pack of lies on your be-half CF!!!Bewick.
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What sector of the road haulage industry do you intend setting up in Carryfast :question:
Cheers Dave.
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This one. :wink: :smiley:

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=41082&start=60#p474530
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What you waiting for Carryfast.Go and buy your Kenworth :bulb: :laughing: .
Cheers Dave.
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I’m still waiting to find out if Saviem will accept that offer of 10 k ($) for that one he said he’d take a deposit for considering that it’s fitted with the worst possible engine option for the rest of the market,except me or the French circus. :open_mouth: :laughing:

I could then put ‘some’ of the money that I’ve saved on buying a modern Euro wagon in the diesel tank instead and bank the rest to keep the TC happy that I’m of sound financial foundation and I’d also have a competitive edge over everyone else by using a 600 hp wagon without a zb speed limiter :bulb: :smiley:. :laughing: :laughing:

gingerfold:
I agree with Saviem, the introduction of Operator Licensing has plenty to answer for. The old system of ‘A’, ‘B’ & ‘C’ licences wasn’t perfect by any means but it could have been improved without abandoning its concept altogether.

A statement not gone unnoticed by young Wheel Nut. I have said much the same thing myself on these very forums :sunglasses:

Carryfast:
Which all seems to reinforce my idea that it was British customers that killed the British truck making industry not those manufacturers. :bulb: :imp:

You’re spot on there Carryfast :wink:

The reason that latter day ERFs and Fodens were inferior products to the continentals were down to lack of budget, a lack of budget because everybody had filled their yards with foreign manufactured lorries, even ‘Saint’ Bewick had Volvo, Scania, Mercedes and Renaults, he goes on and on about how good the Atki was with a ■■■■■■■■ Fuller, Rockwell driveline, yet he bought F88s and 111s :unamused:

If the idiotic practices of the Unions had not strangled the British manufacturers then the likes of AEC and Scammel could have more than matched the opposition, but mismanagement starved them of the budget they needed to develop and build them :unamused:

I reckon if AEC had been left alone then it would be the best lorry on the road today :wink:


This was as good anything but it was to late and it is debatable as to it being British manufactured

I have borrowed the photo from marcus 22 off the northeast thread if he doesn’t mind
cheers Johnnie

newmercman:

Carryfast:
Which all seems to reinforce my idea that it was British customers that killed the British truck making industry not those manufacturers. :bulb: :imp:

How do you explain it is the customers fault ( you must have worked in the customer service complaints dept… ) if you go into a shop and they do not have or do not stock what you require you go to somewhere that does to purchase what you want don’t you :question:
cheers Johnnie :wink:

Just as a little footnote,

Carryfast has been dragged through the mud a bit over his fondness for the Detroit Diesel, well DD is now owned by the largest truck producer in the world, Daimler AG, the new Detroit Diesel DD range is to become the world engine for all Daimler AG heavy trucks, they are the market leaders in Europe, Asia and both North and South America, so it seems that Carryfast is actually not as silly as he makes himself look at times :laughing:

The reason that DD is going to be the number one supplier of engines in the worldwide heavy truck market is down to one thing, because enough people have bought the product to allow them to develop their current engine range :bulb:

So all the know it all, so called experts who mock dear old Carryfast for his beliefs are actually WRONG, you go on and on about how wrong he is, you resort to name calling and all that, yet he is in fact right and he’s a total nutcase, you should all take a long hard look at yourselves in the mirror, you’ve been made to look a bit silly by Carryfast :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

newmercman:
Just as a little footnote,

Carryfast has been dragged through the mud a bit over his fondness for the Detroit Diesel, well DD is now owned by the largest truck producer in the world, Daimler AG, the new Detroit Diesel DD range is to become the world engine for all Daimler AG heavy trucks, they are the market leaders in Europe, Asia and both North and South America, so it seems that Carryfast is actually not as silly as he makes himself look at times :laughing:

The reason that DD is going to be the number one supplier of engines in the worldwide heavy truck market is down to one thing, because enough people have bought the product to allow them to develop their current engine range :bulb:

So all the know it all, so called experts who mock dear old Carryfast for his beliefs are actually WRONG, you go on and on about how wrong he is, you resort to name calling and all that, yet he is in fact right and he’s a total nutcase, you should all take a long hard look at yourselves in the mirror, you’ve been made to look a bit silly by Carryfast :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

I was lead to believe that it is a straight 6 engine and not the V engine’s which is now being used worldwide but I will stand to be corrected
cheers Johnnie :wink:

newmercman:

Carryfast:
Which all seems to reinforce my idea that it was British customers that killed the British truck making industry not those manufacturers. :bulb: :imp:

You’re spot on there Carryfast :wink:

The reason that latter day ERFs and Fodens were inferior products to the continentals were down to lack of budget, a lack of budget because everybody had filled their yards with foreign manufactured lorries, even ‘Saint’ Bewick had Volvo, Scania, Mercedes and Renaults, he goes on and on about how good the Atki was with a ■■■■■■■■ Fuller, Rockwell driveline, yet he bought F88s and 111s :unamused:

If the idiotic practices of the Unions had not strangled the British manufacturers then the likes of AEC and Scammel could have more than matched the opposition, but mismanagement starved them of the budget they needed to develop and build them :unamused:

I reckon if AEC had been left alone then it would be the best lorry on the road today :wink:

The Sed/Atk that replaced both the Atkinson and the Seddon was a retrograde step IMO they weren’t in the same leauge as far as reliability was concerned nor would Sed/Atk listen to the operators complaints with anything other than an"indifference" which was both breathtaking and downright insulting! So what do you do?(i’m listening newmercman!) you finally vote with your feet but are castigated by the likes of you for having the “affront” to go elsewhere for vehicles that give you exactly what you need,rather than persevere and just see your problems multiply by blindly continuing to buy motors that are not,and never will be,up to the job!! Yes,in their day the Atki’s were an ultra reliable workhorse which I will always heap praise upon,but then again they were “of their time” and all good things come to an end! However,it begs the question of how did Sed/Atk get it so wrong when they launched the new marque in late '75? They can’t blame the operators because they were never consulted(well I know I wasn’t)The Monastery somewhere in the Northwest,Saint Bewick of the Atki’s.

I admire Carryfast’s passion for his preferred marque of vehicles.

I also remember the very large company called Carryfast that I assume “Carryfast” built up himself from scratch I seem to recall that all the vehicles were British.

Hello all, Ive been up to my knees in s…t all day so a bit more will not hurt. Newmercman, please read the opening post, I would understand it to relate to continental vehicles in the context of the UK market, and their eventual subdugation of the home produced product. The DD product that you refer to is 6cylinder in line, not the howling V8 monster so beloved of our friend CF, Lets hope that Daimler Chrysler can improve their UK service from the low level being experienced by a very good friend of mine at present, as well as the "quality"of the actual product. Funny, is it not, that those self same importers who decimated the UK industry in the 60s and 70s, have now become so bloated, burocratic and arrogant in their dealings with their bread and butter customers, that there is scant difference to the attitude of the old UK firms. So my friends what comes next?? Cheerio, off for a shower and tea!!

sammyopisite:
I was lead to believe that it is a straight 6 engine and not the V engine’s which is now being used worldwide but I will stand to be corrected
cheers Johnnie :wink:

You’re correct, the old two stroke vee engines disappeared years ago, in fact DD were propped up by US Government funds due to their tie up at that time with GM, in much the same way as British Leyland, they struck lucky with the in line six 60 series engine range, but they bought the design of that from John Deere who developed it, but thought it too complicated for a tractor engine, it was only then that they had a decent product, then Daimler came along, bought out DD and used them as their engine subsidary, although DD is set to be the number one engine manufacturer in the world, the fact that it’s DD and not Mercedes Benz or Mitsubishi Fuso (The other Daimler brands) is probably more to do with Government Grants than anything else :wink:

“newmercmans” coments about leaving AEC alone and they would have turned out to be the finest motor on the road,set me thinking!! When I was a young trailer mate at Brady’s in the 60’s I re-call they took delivery of a new Ergo Mandator,in advance of an order for 6 Mammouth Minors which would be able to operate at 32 tons GVW(Brady’s usually purchased units and trailers in 6’s!) Well the Mandator went into service and time and again couldn’t get past Charnock Richard without being towed into Leyland Motors at Chorley with blown head gasket! The outcome? Brady’s cancelled the MM’s eventually as they had the same engine as the Mandator and there was no liklihood of AEC’s either been willing or able to correct what was plainly a design fault! What 6 motors came in place of the AEC’s? Six,6X2’s Mk1 Atkis with 180LXB engines along with a number of Scania 110’s,even Brady’s started buying “foreign” and they’d been dyed in the wool Leyland people for years previously.They did though,like Bewicks,continue to buy Atki’s,Seddons and Sed/Atks through the 70’s and 80’s but dwindled away onto Mrecs,Scanias and DAF’s for probably the same reason as we did at Bewicks! Wern’t we nasty operators for not allowing the British manufactures to continue to “take the ■■■■” with their inferior offerings!! happy days Bewick.

I know that “British Leyland” were able to do something which 1000’s of drivers gaffers were unable to do
THEY BROKE SCAMMELLS :laughing: :wink:
cheers Johnnie

Bewick:
The Sed/Atk that replaced both the Atkinson and the Seddon was a retrograde step IMO they weren’t in the same leauge as far as reliability was concerned nor would Sed/Atk listen to the operators complaints with anything other than an"indifference" which was both breathtaking and downright insulting! So what do you do?(i’m listening newmercman!) you finally vote with your feet but are castigated by the likes of you for having the “affront” to go elsewhere for vehicles that give you exactly what you need,rather than persevere and just see your problems multiply by blindly continuing to buy motors that are not,and never will be,up to the job!! Yes,in their day the Atki’s were an ultra reliable workhorse which I will always heap praise upon,but then again they were “of their time” and all good things come to an end! However,it begs the question of how did Sed/Atk get it so wrong when they launched the new marque in late '75? They can’t blame the operators because they were never consulted(well I know I wasn’t)The Monastery somewhere in the Northwest,Saint Bewick of the Atki’s.

Saint Bewick, as one who jumped ship to the continentals you obviously never shared the views of some of your competition, far too many people would have continued to buy the crap that was being made by the British Manufacturers, take the Sudden Accident as a prime example, you could buy a sleeper cab in Europe before you could get one in Britain, the ERF export cabs were sleepers and if you look through pictures of 1960s Motor Shows you’ll see sleeper cabbed British Lorries, but they weren’t offered to the British Hauliers, I have a sneaking suspicion that was because they never wanted them, union interference played a part, but so did a reluctance to change.

Looking back just 25yrs there were quite a lot of firms running British Lorries that had drivers up the road all week and never had sleeper cabs (EH Nicholls, Swains, Wallis Haulage, to name a few) they could’ve had sleepers, they chose not to because they refused to move with the times, you as Bewick moved with the times, you ended up with a business that was bought out by a larger group, so you must’ve done something right. EH Nicholls is a shadow of its former self (as are many others who shared the same philosophy)

Now the sleeper cab is not the be all and end all of it, the drivers may have preferred them, but engines and their reliability were also a strong selling point for the continentals, so was aftersales service, Volvo and Scania were not without problems, the 290 88 especially could be a total nightmare, but look at Volvo today, they managed to become the lorry to have, every other lorry on the road for a spell in the late 80s/early 90s was an F10 or an FL10, so they were basically a modern interpretation of the Atki that you like so much, that’s criminal, it should’ve been the Sed/Ak that achieved that.

Now here’s where I agree with our resident nutcase, I believe the reason that Volvo and the rest managed to do it was because they listened to their customers and gave them what they wanted, the only thing was they never listened to the British, far too many were too stiff upper lipped/stupid to complain about the crap being served up to them and would’ve carried on doing things the same way they’d always been done, we just struck lucky because we wanted the same thing as the foreigners :wink:

Saviem:
Lets hope that Daimler Chrysler can improve their UK service from the low level being experienced by a very good friend of mine at present, as well as the "quality"of the actual product.

I spent a while selling Mercs, hence the name, I completely agree with you, there are a few decent dealers out there, but they’re in the minority, I would put an Actros up against any Volvo or Scania, but a Merc dealer against a Volvo or Scania dealer would be like taking a butter knife to a gunfight :unamused:

Your analysis is about right NMN and your description of “stiff upper lipped establishment operators” is also correct! You only have to look at Foden as a glowing example of your description as applied to the British manufacturer of the time.IMO the Foden was a bigger load of crap than BL,and thats saying something!! But Foden were locked in the past and basked in what was more or less a captive market (or so they thought!) They were the first of the big British firms to bite the dust in 1980 as they were quite unwilling to move with the times on the basis that “We are Foden” and you the customer will continue to buy what we build forever,it’s our birthright!!! I was only a cheeky young (zb) when I started off in '68 but I could see that Foden’s were Dinasaus even then although they did stagger on for another 12 years and became a bigger laughing stock each year! Cheers Bewick.

Hi newmercman, you are correct about the unions not allowing sleeper cabs as I worked for a BRS “Pickfords” in the 60s and 70s leaving around 75 and they were still not having them when I left. I then went onto tankers and even then the unions at the major oils company’s and terminals would not allow a sleeper cabbed wagon to be loaded as we had a F88 demo and it was not allowed in but shortly afterwards this practice was thrown out in the late 70s as I had a 88 in late 77 and it was just after that but they did seem to make you have the electrical tests far more frequently.
The oil drivers section of the TWGU was very powerful then and it imposed their rules and regulations onto subbies as well.
Cheers Johnnie

Theres a Atki in the latest Classic and Vintage Commercials magazine ,registration OJM 480L anyone know whos it is?

ramone:
Theres a Atki in the latest Classic and Vintage Commercials magazine ,registration OJM 480L anyone know whos it is?

That will be very interesting to a certain gent who lives in S. Wales!!! Dennis.