ROG wrote:I did noot say the other was not a weekly rest
I said it was not COUNTED as a weekly rest
Which, as already pointed out, is wrong. It is counted as a weekly rest because it resets the allowed 144 hour period between weekly rest periods. If it wasn’t counted as a weekly rest it wouldn’t do that. The resetting of the 144 hours might not be taken advantage of but it has happened.
I see my error !!
I should have added and changed a bit -
The other was not COUNTED as THE weekly rest for a particular WEEK
Sorry, not allowed. Too early, we are only on page 1 of the thread.
niteliner:
but is a 24 hour reduced weekly rest only legal when you are away from base
I was afraid this thread might dwindle on the first page, however I now see that’s unlikely
Oh sorry you asked a question didn’t you
Regular and reduced weekly rest periods have the same criteria as far as location is concerned, so just like a regular weekly rest period you can have a reduced weekly rest period either at base or away from base
Coffeeholic:
You can easily have a 14 day period that doesn’t show a 45 hour rest but is legal. Look at ROG’s example from an earlier post.
ROG:
Holiday for a week and COUNT last 45 hours as full weekly rest for WEEK 1
Mon to sat work = WEEK 1
sun off = less than 45 hours
Mon to sat work = WEEK 2
sun off = less than 45 hours
Mon to fri work = WEEK 3
Sat + sun off = COUNTED as full weekly rest for WEEK 3
In that scenario from the Monday in Week 1 to the Friday in Week 3 is a 19 day period with no 45 hour rest period and it is legal.
OK - I’ve tried but I don’t get it. I realise it is to do with back to back rests? But i don’t get it.
Coffeeholic:
You can easily have a 14 day period that doesn’t show a 45 hour rest but is legal. Look at ROG’s example from an earlier post.
ROG:
Holiday for a week and COUNT last 45 hours as full weekly rest for WEEK 1
Mon to sat work = WEEK 1
sun off = less than 45 hours
Mon to sat work = WEEK 2
sun off = less than 45 hours
Mon to fri work = WEEK 3
Sat + sun off = COUNTED as full weekly rest for WEEK 3
In that scenario from the Monday in Week 1 to the Friday in Week 3 is a 19 day period with no 45 hour rest period and it is legal.
OK - I’ve tried but I don’t get it. I realise it is to do with back to back rests? But i don’t get it.
A WEEK is sunday midnight to sunday midnight
Each WEEK must have a weekly rest IN it
A weekly rest that starts at 1 minute before sunday midnight or finishes at 1 minute past sunday midnight is IN the WEEK previous and IN the WEEK after but as a weekly rest can only be used once then it is up to the driver as to which WEEK it is IN
A WEEK can have more than one weekly rest IN it but one of them will the one that is COUNTED as THE weekly rest for that WEEK
If the driver had a full and a reduced weekly rest available to use IN the same WEEK then the driver would usually count the full as being the one COUNTED for that WEEK
In the example there are two weekly rests IN every week with one at the start of each WEEK and one at the end of the WEEK so either can be chosen as the weekly rest to be COUNTED for that WEEK as long as it has not be used.
The example starts out by using the weekly rest at the start of the WEEK as the weekly rest which is COUNTED but then changes to the weekly rest at the end of the WEEK which is COUNTED and that causes one of the weekly rests to become unused as a weekly rest which is not COUNTED as the weekly rest for any WEEK.
That does not mean the uncounted weekly rest is not a weekly rest but is a weekly rest that has not been COUNTED as the weekly rest for a particular WEEK
I have probably waffled way too much on this explanation and now added to your confusion but there are others who can explain much better
Coffeeholic:
You can easily have a 14 day period that doesn’t show a 45 hour rest but is legal. Look at ROG’s example from an earlier post.
ROG:
Holiday for a week and COUNT last 45 hours as full weekly rest for WEEK 1
Mon to sat work = WEEK 1
sun off = less than 45 hours
Mon to sat work = WEEK 2
sun off = less than 45 hours
Mon to fri work = WEEK 3
Sat + sun off = COUNTED as full weekly rest for WEEK 3
In that scenario from the Monday in Week 1 to the Friday in Week 3 is a 19 day period with no 45 hour rest period and it is legal.
OK - I’ve tried but I don’t get it. I realise it is to do with back to back rests? But i don’t get it.
It not to do with back to back rest but with the weekly rest requirements. Any two weeks must have a minimum of one full and one reduced rest, of course as with any minimum you can have more.
In the example above Week 1 has a full weekly rest, taken at the start of the week and used for Week 1 rather than being attached to the previous week. Week 2 has a reduced taken at the end of a week on the Sunday and Week 3 has a full rest taken on the Saturday and Sunday. So, that is.
Week 1 - Full, at start of week.
Week 2 - Reduced, on Sunday
Week 3 - Full, on Saturday and Sunday.
and meets the minimum requirements of the regulations even though there are 19 days between the full rest periods.
There is an extra weekly rest period on the Sunday at the end of week 1 but that is above the minimum requirement and is therefore only there to avoid working more than the allowed 144 hours between weekly rest periods from the Monday of Week 1 to the Sunday of Week 2.
The point that leads to confusion is the fact you can have a rest period for a week before you have done any work in that week, as in the case of Week 1 above. It is ridiculous and, as far as I understand it, is not something liked or recommended by people at VOSA, but it is legal because of the fact the regulations allow any rest period of at least 69 hours to be counted as two back-to-back rest periods and they can be counted for different weeks, if they span a weekend.
It’s not something that occurs very often and it was something I have taken advantage of about twice in the last few years when I was doing nights out and weeks away. I don’t usually mention it when answering questions about weekly rest due to the fact it occurs so infrequently and is very confusing to people trying to get their heads around the regulations. Unfortunately somebody told ROG about it once and since then he introduces it into a lot of answers, even when it isn’t relevant to a question and causes more questions than answers.
ex_reme_mech:
I was getting it until the 69 hours counted as back to back got mentioned
Yeah, don’t worry about that bit.
ex_reme_mech:
I get it though - it’s all about which week you count the rest to be in.
Correct, a rest which begins in one week and ends in another can be used for either week, but not both. So if you have had a weekly rest earlier in a week then another at the end of the week, which goes beyond midnight Sunday, that second rest can be used for the coming week if you wish.
So, reading between the lines, I can do the following ;
Last weekend ; 60.25 rest [friday 16.45-mon 05.00]
Monday - Saturday ; Driving + WTD Complied with…
This week-end, short break from 15.30 Saturday to 06.00 Monday, compensation required by 25.12.11
Next week ; Monday - Saturday Inc. [hours permitting], another short break, compensation required by 25.12.11
The following week ; Monday - Friday Inc, OFF saturday 24/Sunday 25/monday 26, back to work Tuesday 27.
I have worked this schedule before, when its suited me, and Ive had no problem with "infringements", the only problem Im having is a new manager has his own interpretation, and wants all drivers to work 6 days every other week, as a “LTD” driver, I want to maximise my earning potential, and, have 24.12 off
Stanley Mitchell:
So, reading between the lines, I can do the following ;
Last weekend ; 60.25 rest [friday 16.45-mon 05.00]
Monday - Saturday ; Driving + WTD Complied with…
This week-end, short break from 15.30 Saturday to 06.00 Monday, compensation required by 25.12.11
Next week ; Monday - Saturday Inc. [hours permitting], another short break, compensation required by 25.12.11
The following week ; Monday - Friday Inc, OFF saturday 24/Sunday 25/monday 26, back to work Tuesday 27.
I have worked this schedule before, when its suited me, and Ive had no problem with "infringements", the only problem Im having is a new manager has his own interpretation, and wants all drivers to work 6 days every other week, as a “LTD” driver, I want to maximise my earning potential, and, have 24.12 off
By ‘short break’ I assume you mean weekly rest
As there must be a full weekly rest of at least 45 hours counted for at least every other week then do your weekly rests conform to that?
Stanley Mitchell:
So, reading between the lines, I can do the following ;
Last weekend ; 60.25 rest [friday 16.45-mon 05.00]
Monday - Saturday ; Driving + WTD Complied with…
This week-end, short break from 15.30 Saturday to 06.00 Monday, compensation required by 25.12.11
Next week ; Monday - Saturday Inc. [hours permitting], another short break, compensation required by 25.12.11
The following week ; Monday - Friday Inc, OFF saturday 24/Sunday 25/monday 26, back to work Tuesday 27.
No This week and next week is two consecutive weeks with only reduced rest periods and that’s not legal. One of those weeks will require a full weekly rest. I assume it is too late to change your start time on Monday so next week you will need a 45. You can still work Monday to Saturday if you wish but from when you finish it will have to be 45 hours before you resume.
By midnight on 01/01/12. It’s the end of the third week following the reduction and three weeks after week ending 11/12/11 is w/e 1st January.
Stanley Mitchell:
So, reading between the lines, I can do the following ;
Last weekend ; 60.25 rest [friday 16.45-mon 05.00]
Monday - Saturday ; Driving + WTD Complied with…
This week-end, short break from 15.30 Saturday to 06.00 Monday, compensation required by 25.12.11
Next week ; Monday - Saturday Inc. [hours permitting], another short break, compensation required by 25.12.11
The following week ; Monday - Friday Inc, OFF saturday 24/Sunday 25/monday 26, back to work Tuesday 27.
I have worked this schedule before, when its suited me, and Ive had no problem with "infringements", the only problem Im having is a new manager has his own interpretation, and wants all drivers to work 6 days every other week, as a “LTD” driver, I want to maximise my earning potential, and, have 24.12 off
I have to admit to having some trouble getting my head round this one and had to put it into Excel to figure it out
As far as I can see it can be made to work, in the picture bellow the weekly rest periods are for the weeks of the same colour
tachograph:
I have to admit to having some trouble getting my head round this one and had to put it into Excel to figure it out
As far as I can see it can be made to work, in the picture bellow the weekly rest periods are for the weeks of the same colour :wink
Not enough information to decide that and I would suggest he just has one rest at the end of each week, which means the 60+ hour rest was for the coming week and that kinda scuppers your spreadsheet. You also don’t know which week the rest at the top of the page was for, it may have been a reduced so that also wouldn’t make the sheet work.
tachograph:
I have to admit to having some trouble getting my head round this one and had to put it into Excel to figure it out
As far as I can see it can be made to work, in the picture bellow the weekly rest periods are for the weeks of the same colour :wink
Not enough information to decide that and I would suggest he just has one rest at the end of each week, which means the 60+ hour rest was for the coming week and that kinda scuppers your spreadsheet.
Not at-all, If the previous weeks were full weekly rest periods then there’s nothing to stop him working the shift pattern he want to work.
Most people who have weekly rest periods at the end of the week start from a holiday when they would be starting the week with a weekly rest period, If this is the case then I see no reason why he shouldn’t work the shift pattern he wants to.
Only Stanley Mitchell knows what weekly rest periods he’s had in the past.
Coffeeholic:
Not enough information to decide that and I would suggest he just has one rest at the end of each week, which means the 60+ hour rest was for the coming week and that kinda scuppers your spreadsheet. You also don’t know which week the rest at the top of the page was for, it may have been a reduced so that also wouldn’t make the sheet work.
I can see the first bit of your summation but why would it not work if the weekly rest at the top was a reduced?
Coffeeholic:
You also don’t know which week the rest at the top of the page was for, it may have been a reduced so that also wouldn’t make the sheet work.
Which is presisely why I put “Assumed full weekly rest”.
Ive been having my full [45+] weekend breaks, for a few months now, its just that the three weeks ive stated, are big earning weeks, i`ve worked this 3 week rota before without any problems from the “infringment” department
My “short break” is a 24+, i.e., I finish @ 17.00 on a saturday, and I`m back @ 05.00 on a monday
I take my proper break as a 45 + the hours owed from the previous two weekends, starting when I finish on the third friday, hope this makes sense
but there are others who can explain much better 
