There is no need for your details to go in his book, that is for his notes and he can put as little or as much as he wants in there, they don’t have to go in at all if he doesn’t wish. All he needs to summons you is your name and address (which he wrote down). he will of PNC’d your vehicle before stopping you i would imagine and also checked that it has insurance, yes you could have given him a blag name and address however lets face it you won’t be that hard to find if he needs too will you after all he knows who you work for. Mobile phones are not taken as evidence as the service provider will give far better evidence and detail than your mobile will, eg you can set the time and date wrong etc, so it is not hard evidence, that comes from the phone company,
Was he on his own? did he have an in car video? from what i see there aren’t many flaws if you are relying on what is above to be honest.
With the greatest respect to you and your friend if they have moved up several ranks in there career that will have taken a few years and so might i suggest it is a while since your friend worked on the streets where things change on a daily basis, it is very easy to become out of touch with every day things when promoted. My ex took advice from a solicitor friend about CSA and thought that she was bomb proof (told me i had to pay this and that), her friend was about 10 years out of date and she shot herself in the foot big time compared to what she got and what she thought she could get. (sorry just an example that good intentions are not always correct)
There was not a chance he had the time to PNC me,
He said he saw me as he was passing, pulled infront, gave me a flash of the blues and pulled over, all this happened within 1/2 a mile, from him pulling from behind to stopping, so not much time to PNC the vehicle,
I do not believe he could have got a shot from a forward facing camera due to the angles involved from his motor to my cab, and I couldnt see a rear facing when we were stood in the layby arguing the toss.
Yes he was alone.
Whenever ive been pulled in the car, the car and I got PNC’d there and then, and I had to show my licence to say I was who I was saying I was
Like I say, too many flaws IMO in his ‘evidence’ to mount a case,
The 14 day period I have been informed about has passed so I am thinking its done with,
And as I have said, was it an effort to bullyboy me into taking a fixed pen so he can get a tick against his name? certainly looks like that to me.
well al i can say is keep it going i am flat out all the time i was working for the irish pulled in twice and was only done once for being over on my axle was never done for speed so i think its just on the day when it comes to vosa and how you talk to them if you speak to them like crap then i no they will have you for something beleave me i no
i went across a55 today as far as llandudno,56 all way except for roadworks st asaph and colwyns 50mph stretch,all other trucks doin the same,a few slowed on the uphills,usual amount of plod about.i know 50 is the limit…set when god was a boy,but isnt keeping up progress with other road users less likely to involve an incident?..incoming!
just my tuppenth worth, i had a pull last year for HOLDING a phone,no calls out or in,no textin or deleting.thought nothing of it until 5 months and 3 weeks passed,then came the dreaded summons through the post.Decided to get a top solicitor on the job…wrong move…technically once you take the phone out of the holder you are in control of the said phone whilst driving.No ifs, no buts,we tried every trick in the book to prove that I wasnt useing the phone at the time,records from phone provider etc…it doesnt make any difference…you are still useing a phone whilst driving.whether its in your hand,next to your ear or scratching your arse with it. Good luck buddy but the odds are well stacked against you as i found out to my cost and licence
Perhps he didn’t didn’t PNC you or the truck then but it own’t make any difference to the case as you have given your details and if for some reason you could not be traced he could go to the company, The 14 days is as others have said for the Notice of Intended Prosecution, which is not required he has 6 months in which to report you if he is going too, so if after that time you ain’t recieved anything your home and dry till then maybe you will get one in the post, there are still not man flaws as you put it, but if like you say you didn’t do it then you hve to fight it, it just won’t be as easy as you think should you have too.
little Elf:
just my tuppenth worth, i had a pull last year for HOLDING a phone,no calls out or in,no textin or deleting.thought nothing of it until 5 months and 3 weeks passed,then came the dreaded summons through the post.Decided to get a top solicitor on the job…wrong move…technically once you take the phone out of the holder you are in control of the said phone whilst driving.No ifs, no buts,we tried every trick in the book to prove that I wasnt useing the phone at the time,records from phone provider etc…it doesnt make any difference…you are still useing a phone whilst driving.whether its in your hand,next to your ear or scratching your arse with it. Good luck buddy but the odds are well stacked against you as i found out to my cost and licence
Spot on! There was no need for a specific law regarding mobile phones, the same law used to prosecute for eating/drinking while driving was enough.
While the intention of the law was obvious, to prevent drivers flying down the M1 at 80 while having a chat, the law is worded so badly that the Police can/do abuse it quite legally… as in your case!
Like you say the whole process is stacked against you…a Police officer says he saw you holding a phone, how do you prove you weren’t? You can’t! Sadly all that is needed for a conviction is (in most cases) the word of said officer!
Melchett:
Spot on! There was no need for a specific law regarding mobile phones, the same law used to prosecute for eating/drinking while driving was enough.
While the intention of the law was obvious, to prevent drivers flying down the M1 at 80 while having a chat, the law is worded so badly that the Police can/do abuse it quite legally… as in your case!
Like you say the whole process is stacked against you…a Police officer says he saw you holding a phone, how do you prove you weren’t? You can’t! Sadly all that is needed for a conviction is (in most cases) the word of said officer!
Easy money!
So what your saying that if the Police pull you and say you were on the phone, whether you was or wasnt you are in effect screwed because the Police say so?
Whether that is true or not I find it quite laughable, and really does show how much of a joke our country has become.
I’m not wising to muscle in here on “those in the know” but in answer to one point…
The police officer DOES have to enter all details of ANY offence in his pocket book… and any other information including names and addresses, registration numbers, phone numbers etc. The pocket book is a legal document, with a serial number, and is evidence. An ordinary “notebook” isn’t…an official paper trail procedure needs to be followed. An ordinary notebook can be abused and changed later, a police pocketbook cannot as all pages are numbered and it will be very seriously questioned should any pages go missing. They also know which officer the notebook is allocated to…
A good solicitor will want to know why the alleged offence wasn’t recorded in the officers pocket book, why the caution wasn’t given (the “now” caution) why phones weren’t confiscated etc.
I know all this because I worked for the police a few years ago, and they are bloody strict on the notebook thing! Without it there is NO EVIDENCE to take to court.
Another thing too, we were NOT ALLOWED to use any form of stationary other than the official notebook for official business. Bits of paper were frowned upon and not accepted, ever.
Multi Dropper:
I’m not wising to muscle in here on “those in the know” but in answer to one point…
The police officer DOES have to enter all details of ANY offence in his pocket book… and any other information including names and addresses, registration numbers, phone numbers etc. The pocket book is a legal document, with a serial number, and is evidence. An ordinary “notebook” isn’t…an official paper trail procedure needs to be followed. An ordinary notebook can be abused and changed later, a police pocketbook cannot as all pages are numbered and it will be very seriously questioned should any pages go missing. They also know which officer the notebook is allocated to…
A good solicitor will want to know why the alleged offence wasn’t recorded in the officers pocket book, why the caution wasn’t given (the “now” caution) why phones weren’t confiscated etc.
I know all this because I worked for the police a few years ago, and they are bloody strict on the notebook thing! Without it there is NO EVIDENCE to take to court.
Another thing too, we were NOT ALLOWED to use any form of stationary other than the official notebook for official business. Bits of paper were frowned upon and not accepted, ever.
Thank You very much, some questions answered there.
Melchett:
Spot on! There was no need for a specific law regarding mobile phones, the same law used to prosecute for eating/drinking while driving was enough.
While the intention of the law was obvious, to prevent drivers flying down the M1 at 80 while having a chat, the law is worded so badly that the Police can/do abuse it quite legally… as in your case!
Like you say the whole process is stacked against you…a Police officer says he saw you holding a phone, how do you prove you weren’t? You can’t! Sadly all that is needed for a conviction is (in most cases) the word of said officer!
Easy money!
So what your saying that if the Police pull you and say you were on the phone, whether you was or wasnt you are in effect screwed because the Police say so?
Whether that is true or not I find it quite laughable, and really does show how much of a joke our country has become.
Yep, that’s what I’m saying. There are countless cases of exactly that… I personally know of one!
Next…
Multi Dropper:
I’m not wising to muscle in here on “those in the know” but in answer to one point…
The police officer DOES have to enter all details of ANY offence in his pocket book… and any other information including names and addresses, registration numbers, phone numbers etc. The pocket book is a legal document, with a serial number, and is evidence. An ordinary “notebook” isn’t…an official paper trail procedure needs to be followed. An ordinary notebook can be abused and changed later, a police pocketbook cannot as all pages are numbered and it will be very seriously questioned should any pages go missing. They also know which officer the notebook is allocated to…
A good solicitor will want to know why the alleged offence wasn’t recorded in the officers pocket book, why the caution wasn’t given (the “now” caution) why phones weren’t confiscated etc.
I know all this because I worked for the police a few years ago, and they are bloody strict on the notebook thing! Without it there is NO EVIDENCE to take to court.
Another thing too, we were NOT ALLOWED to use any form of stationary other than the official notebook for official business. Bits of paper were frowned upon and not accepted, ever.
Almost right
12401 PROCEDURE — POCKET NOTEBOOKS
3.4.7 Original notes must be made directly into the notebook. On no account must scraps of paper and jotting books be used. Explanatory note: If exceptionally, notes are made otherwise than in the pocket book i.e. on plain paper, those notes must be retained and revealed to the CPS on the MG6 disclosure schedules.
3.4.8 It is acceptable for original notes to be made in the form of a section 9 statement if made at the earliest opportunity. Statements must contain the following paragraph:
‘This statement completed at (time), on (day/month/year) at (location) are my original notes.’ A note will be made in the pocketbook to confirm an original statement has been made and the rear index completed.
3.4.9 Original notes on a statement must still be made at the time, or as soon as practicable; courts may prevent an officer from referring to a Section 9 statement as original notes if they are not satisfied on this ground. It is also important to record in the pocket notebook any information which is not to be included within the Section 9 statement
It would seem the Police have a get out for everything!
I’ve also got to say that B1 GGK has never said whether he had the phone in his hand or not?
Melchett:
I’ve also got to say that B1 GGK has never said whether he had the phone in his hand or not?
Wasnt handling the phone, My phone was in the centre consoley bit, the workphone was in its dashmount cradle. Neither were being handled at that time or around that time.
He said to me,
“I saw it, its a silver phone”, I just replied, “I dont posess a silver phone”.
Multi Dropper:
I’m not wising to muscle in here on “those in the know” but in answer to one point…
The police officer DOES have to enter all details of ANY offence in his pocket book… and any other information including names and addresses, registration numbers, phone numbers etc. The pocket book is a legal document, with a serial number, and is evidence. An ordinary “notebook” isn’t…an official paper trail procedure needs to be followed. An ordinary notebook can be abused and changed later, a police pocketbook cannot as all pages are numbered and it will be very seriously questioned should any pages go missing. They also know which officer the notebook is allocated to…
A good solicitor will want to know why the alleged offence wasn’t recorded in the officers pocket book, why the caution wasn’t given (the “now” caution) why phones weren’t confiscated etc.
I know all this because I worked for the police a few years ago, and they are bloody strict on the notebook thing! Without it there is NO EVIDENCE to take to court.
Another thing too, we were NOT ALLOWED to use any form of stationary other than the official notebook for official business. Bits of paper were frowned upon and not accepted, ever.
Thank You very much, some questions answered there.
Most of this is true with the exception of the following, as stated before no everything doesn’t have to go into an officers note book, it is offically an aide memoire for the police officer (to remind him/her if needs be of details at a later date),
The pocket note book is not a legal document however as it is number recorded it can be used as evidence at court, should the officer wish to use it. A good solicitor will not wish to know why anything is not in the book as they don’t have access too it unless it is to be used in court, in which case it would have been written in.
Both when and now cautions should have been used not just one, the “when” upon highlighting to you that a suspected offence ad been commited so that any questions put to you could be used in evidence, and then when reporting you the now caution to record your response.
Phone not confiscated (how many times) there is no need what so ever too sieze it. B1 GGK i know for a fact the force where you live do not sieze phones
To say there is no evidence without a pocket note book is laughable, Phone records, statements etc to name but a few of the many forms, (the statement is the key thing not a pocket book)
Other bits of paper are not frowned upon, granted its not ideal however they are simply submitted as evidence as an exhibit. and documented in the statement. If this is not the case why do CID use A4 note books (no not police numbered ones) for serious cases ?
All irrelevant however if he is relying on the fact he saw a silver phone and the 2 you have were not,
I even bet him a year of my wages against a year of his that he was wrong and I am 100% innocent,
I will go a years wages against you that I get no conviction from this.
Although an old thread,VOSA are becoming more and more frequent on the wrexham bypass A483 on the llay junction,taking you up to the
vosa testing station in llay,theyve had me 3 times in the last 6 months,i have also seen them riding with the police on the deeside ind.estate lately aswell.
As I understand it, the Police use static CCTV cameras to detect drivers handling a phone, or not wearing a seat belt etc, and the patrol car is dispatched by the CCTV operator when an offender is spotted. If this is what has happened in your case then the Police will have camera evidence.
Using a phone while you are driving we all now is taboo,but how many times do you see on t v reporters speaking into a mike, doing a news report while
driving.
Also seen VOSA knocking about on the Mold bypass (A494) in the last week, up the hill between Esso and Shell garages and on the bypass itself (heading towards Ruthin).
Bala is also a favorite place for them, after the Trawsfynydd turning (on the Corwen side).
