ezydriver:
Forgive me if this has been mentioned on the forum, but I haven’t seen or heard about it til today. But Wincanton tanker drivers get payrises of between 20 and 37%, secured by Unite. Could this set a precedent?
Like Juddian said it’s all about the starting point. If it’s anything like our Wincanton subby at Bellshill who got a similar one it was because everyone else around them had already upped the wages so Wincanton was forced to by drivers walking out the door and up the road and those left threatening to do the same. Funny how they managed to do it without the needs of a union.
Zac_A:
I’d need to see a different source of info than The Morning Star to be satisfied it was genuine.
From Wikipedia…
The Morning Star is a left-wing British daily newspaper with a focus on social, political and trade union issues. Originally founded in 1930 as the Daily Worker by the Communist Party of Great Britain, ownership was transferred from the CPGB to an independent readers’ co-operative in 1945.
Yeah I think I would too. At first I thought it was an arm of Morningstar which is a very well respected financial website used for research for investing.
Juddian:
Whilst 20% + increase sounds brilliant, it all depends what the starting point is.
It’s not brilliant in the slightest; it’s an insult. Everyone here is seemingly happy they’re now getting 18, 19 quid an hour, whilst ignoring the rampant inflation on day-to-day living costs over the past year or so in particular. Maybe you all live in some secret utopia where there is no inflation, but here in the real world I estimate that our living costs have increased by somewhere in the region of 40% - most noticably on energy costs, food costs and rent increases. Even though fuel prices have dropped significantly since their recent highs, they are still way above what they were a couple of years ago. Nobody seems to care about this because they were £2 a litre 9 months ago and now they’re ‘only’ £1.50 a litre, so that’s all good then.
I’ve just had a scout on Indeed for class 1 drivers in my area (Wakefield) and full-time weekday day jobs that actually show an hourly rate rather than a meaningless salary figure, are mostly in the £12-13/hr range with agency ranging between £13-16/hr. That’s about a £1-2/hr increase on the rates advertised just over a year ago - roughly a 10-15% increase. Those that have said they were on £15/hr and now getting £18/hr, that’s still only a 20% increase, so all of these rises fall well short in matching the real cost of living increase.
The reality is that most of you will have far less disposable income today than you did a year ago - despite the numbers in your bank account being bigger - because the combined cost of all your day-to-day essentials has increased far more than any pay rise(s) you’ve received.
You might not be noticing the inflation much if your house is paid off, you eat cheap nutritionless crap and you’re sweating cobs if you have the house thermostat set higher than 12C but I reckon the average family household is seeing a 30% increase over the past year. Ours is higher because we eat a lot of fresh produce (meats, eggs) which have both increased by a significant margin and a business premises rent has gone up from £500 to £750/month which is a 50% increase because reasons and I know that he could rent it for £900 based on how much neighbouring units pay so I don’t grumble too much.
I think it would be fair to say that if you haven’t received a 30% increase in your earnings since this time last year then you are being short-changed.
Juddian:
Whilst 20% + increase sounds brilliant, it all depends what the starting point is.
I think it would be fair to say that if you haven’t received a 30% increase in your earnings since this time last year then you are being short-changed.
That might be the case for those who have had no pay increases for years, a pseudo realism hit the usual suspect operators last year when they started to take the driver shortage propaganda (lies) seriously and fell over themselves to be the supposed best paying robotised logistics hell hole in the district, places where all you are is a driver number, a bum on the seat of no consequence valued no more than the neglected uncared for lease truck about to go back to the dealer then shipped out to the third world.
Employers who value more than this weeks report have been giving decent wage rises in line with inflation every year since forever, no knee jerk headline pay increases because there have been cost of living (at least) pay rises every year without fail, most decent employers who value their staff (who equally value their proper jobs and do their best to make sure it lasts) will have done this because having contented skilled loyal known and trusted long term staff is correctly valued.
Juddian:
Employers who value more than this weeks report have been giving decent wage rises in line with inflation
If it’s keeping in line with inflation then it’s not a wage rise.
If the initial age when you started was class leading (and to be honest quite a shock), and you’ve kept pace over the years, you must still be ahead in the game.
Killing the golden goose through greed isn’t a great long term strategy, it leads among other things to almost no fuel tanker drivers being directly employed by the petroleum companies (once dead mans shoes) and Ford’s own transporter drivers (probably the best paid lorrying job in the country) being the only ones still employed by the company in that sector.
Juddian:
Employers who value more than this weeks report have been giving decent wage rises in line with inflation
If it’s keeping in line with inflation then it’s not a wage rise.
If the initial age when you started was class leading (and to be honest quite a shock), and you’ve kept pace over the years, you must still be ahead in the game.
Killing the golden goose through greed isn’t a great long term strategy, it leads among other things to almost no fuel tanker drivers being directly employed by the petroleum companies (once dead mans shoes) and Ford’s own transporter drivers (probably the best paid lorrying job in the country) being the only ones still employed by the company in that sector.
I expect the number of employers who have adjusted wages to keep in line with inflation can be counted on one hand. I expect the number of employers who have increased wages beyond the level of inflation can be counted in single digits (if any). Your examples are not representative of the industry as a whole - at least not based on the job ad pay rates and posts in this thread.
Juddian:
Employers who value more than this weeks report have been giving decent wage rises in line with inflation
If it’s keeping in line with inflation then it’s not a wage rise.
If the initial age when you started was class leading (and to be honest quite a shock), and you’ve kept pace over the years, you must still be ahead in the game.
Killing the golden goose through greed isn’t a great long term strategy, it leads among other things to almost no fuel tanker drivers being directly employed by the petroleum companies (once dead mans shoes) and Ford’s own transporter drivers (probably the best paid lorrying job in the country) being the only ones still employed by the company in that sector.
I expect the number of employers who have adjusted wages to keep in line with inflation can be counted on one hand. I expect the number of employers who have increased wages beyond the level of inflation can be counted in single digits (if any). Your examples are not representative of the industry as a whole - at least not based on the job ad pay rates and posts in this thread.
Predictable harvests are being reaped from what employees of the many good jobs have sown over the years.
So many own account operations were ruined by the drivers themselves who could see no further than their own wallets and lacked the mental capacity or could be bothered to work out how to keep that job viable for not only their own working life but for those who would replace them.
Sickies, lack of care of the customer/equipment/load, failure to provide value for money from their efforts, can’t be arsed to do a good job which also happens to be economical, so many previously good employers just resigned themselves to handing it over to the logistics mobs and let them sort the idiots out.
If the company can’t make a decent profit then what’s the point, drivers can do a lot to make sure their efforts help keep the profits rolling in, sadly too many lack the skills and gumption to do this.
Its generally specialised work where own account still exists, where people arn’t so easy to replace and equipment is expensive to buy and even more expensive to repair from negligent damage.
The industry as a whole shot itself in the foot by willingly dumbing the job down, poor managers went along with deskilling the lorry driving profession in order to be able to grab any passing licence holder off the street irrespective of competence attitude employment history etc and themselves now appear bewildered that the seeds they themselves planted have also produced a poor harvest.
Spend a while on the road and the good lorry drivers, competent courteous able to handle the vehicle well and take a pride in their work stand out like sore thumbs among the perma hivis steering wheel operatives.
You want to see massive pay rises, over and above inflation, in return good employers deserve to get more than just a disinterested wheel operative for their money, those who do pay well and look after their staff arn’t advertising for good reasons, and those who work for and appreciate what they have keep schtum.
Juddian:
Employers who value more than this weeks report have been giving decent wage rises in line with inflation
If it’s keeping in line with inflation then it’s not a wage rise.
Isn’t that a personal thing though dependent on an individual circumstance?
In the real world you mentioned in an earlier post with an estimate of 40% inflation that just doesn’t work with me. My mortgage is fixed for another five years, I get staff discount for food shopping which cushions a large bulk of any increase in prices and while I’m currently on a fixed tariff for energy that will run out, although we aren’t massive energy users and have solar panels that reduce costs further. I’ve even done things like change my mobile provider from one that increases prices year on year by CPI plus 5% to one that doesn’t lift prices, Sky TV can try and charge me more but if they do they can have their stuff back when my contract rolls round again - I’ve been paying about the same for 15 years or so now.
I appreciate some will be feeling inflation really heavily, but there’s also others that aren’t. Wage wise I left my old job 16 months ago and wages for me from then to now have risen by around 40%(ish) from £13.00ph to £20.00ph (average Inc various premiums etc etc). Some of that was pay rises while in the job (we got 13% this year) but the other bit was me getting off my backside and leaving a firm that was taking the pure… micky… out of drivers.
Juddian:
Employers who value more than this weeks report have been giving decent wage rises in line with inflation
If it’s keeping in line with inflation then it’s not a wage rise.
Isn’t that a personal thing though dependent on an individual circumstance?
In the real world you mentioned in an earlier post with an estimate of 40% inflation that just doesn’t work with me. My mortgage is fixed for another five years, I get staff discount for food shopping which cushions a large bulk of any increase in prices and while I’m currently on a fixed tariff for energy that will run out, although we aren’t massive energy users and have solar panels that reduce costs further. I’ve even done things like change my mobile provider from one that increases prices year on year by CPI plus 5% to one that doesn’t lift prices, Sky TV can try and charge me more but if they do they can have their stuff back when my contract rolls round again - I’ve been paying about the same for 15 years or so now.
I guess you missed the paragraph from my post where I made that caveat :
“You might not be noticing the inflation much if your house is paid off, you eat cheap nutritionless crap and you’re sweating cobs if you have the house thermostat set higher than 12C but I reckon the average family household is seeing a 30% increase over the past year. Ours is higher because we eat a lot of fresh produce (meats, eggs) which have both increased by a significant margin and a business premises rent has gone up from £500 to £750/month which is a 50% increase because reasons and I know that he could rent it for £900 based on how much neighbouring units pay so I don’t grumble too much.”
toonsy:
I appreciate some will be feeling inflation really heavily, but there’s also others that aren’t. Wage wise I left my old job 16 months ago and wages for me from then to now have risen by around 40%(ish) from £13.00ph to £20.00ph (average Inc various premiums etc etc). Some of that was pay rises while in the job (we got 13% this year) but the other bit was me getting off my backside and leaving a firm that was taking the pure… micky… out of drivers.
Like I said to Juddian, isolated cases are not representative of the wider market. Job ad sites are generally a good metric as the first hourly rate they list is always the weekday day rate (if applicable)- ie. the true hourly rate before all the bonuses and allowances are added, which is what all drivers do in an attempt to impress any other drivers in the vicinity.
stu675:
Such a shame that almost no one is willing to say which company or industry sector they’re working in.
ilearnt not to do that the hard way. trouble is people have long memories and if you say you work for a company and then have issues with a different company everyone assumes it was the origional one if that makes any sence.
I try not to name and shame on forums at least in public as my experience might not the the same as someone elses or it could be a different branch
I realise that, but if you’re in a specific sector like a milk tanker or whatever it would be helpful rather than just, I get this amount, but it’s not for you.
I’ve been with A.w.jenkinson for nearly 2 years. £45k is realistic and the £50k advertised is achievable with some weekend work. Take home is generally around £800 pw for 4 nights out. Hours vary but its not hard work. Better paying than transporters which I did previously and less hassle. I certainly won’t be on the move for the foreseeable future. Not the best paid perhaps, but reliable and fair to work for.
Yeah yeah I’ve too noticed that wages on offer on the job sites seem to have dropped from say a year ago. I recall it wasn’t out if the ordinary to see the so-called ‘better’ employers advertise for 17/18/19 quid an hour etc, now it seems to be the usual ads for the lower pay.
But I wonder if that’s a market thing? Like are they the types I see a lot because they’re the revolving door meat on a seat type of jobs? I’ve not seen my job advertised since I applied for instance and even then I needed a hand in to jump a list, while obviously 16 months or so ago it was advertised but it’s not been often for years.
I suppose it’d fairer to look at my old job because that was a meat on the seat type of affair. At point of leaving I was on £11.80 flat rate which went to 13.00 just after I left and now they’re on 15.10, so even they’ve gone up 30% or so from a low base because they weren’t getting meat for their seat and what they did have they didn’t care enough to entice to stay until it became an operational issue for them. Maybe its those types of jobs that are always on offer? Willing to carry on with the merry-go-round of drivers for the same of retaining people on a fair wage for a few extra quid an hour?
As for including premiums and that, it reflects the hours I work. If you work nights or whatever you’re not interested in day pay because you’re not getting it, you want to know what you will be paid. In my situation I could say its £16.58ph but the reality is I spend 2/3 of my contracted hours at £22ph and anything over my contract is higher than that, so it’s not representative for me to compare the flat rate and makes more sense to fkatten it out (ie appropriate rates for appropriate hours worked ÷ contracted hours), but yeah if you’re looking at day job to day job, like for like, then yeah day pay rare is the one to look for and not ‘I take home x with night out money’
I’ve always tried to work out wages by dividing the top line (not incl expenses subsistence pay etc) by the number of hours actually worked to achieve that pay, factoring premium hours ie nights weekends bank hols etc into the calculation.
You also have to average this calc out over a number of weeks/months to even out busy/quiet periods and for those where the pay varies.
I suppose for the industry it has been a positive that companies are starting to wake up to the reality that warehouse to wheels schemes and the like is the way to get some young blood up and running for a career driving.
Such a shame that Grant Shapps could not identify that stopping driving tests completely would have such an effect on driver numbers and that it took the Haribo not getting through for him to wake up and smell the coffee.
Noremac:
I suppose for the industry it has been a positive that companies are starting to wake up to the reality that warehouse to wheels schemes and the like is the way to get some young blood up and running for a career driving.
Such a shame that Grant Shapps could not identify that stopping driving tests completely would have such an effect on driver numbers and that it took the Haribo not getting through for him to wake up and smell the coffee.
im not sure it has been good. I know im being a hypocrit here as i got my class 1 through the boot camp however i already had my class 2. I know several people in the agency that i work for that did thier class 1 with the boot camp and when it came time to work they didnt like it and went back to thier old sectors. I havent looked futher than my little corner of kent but all the companies that offer to train you up now are basicly running the bootcamp. there still arent any companies that will train you.
8 year long forum unregistered guest lurker. Hopefully not too much of a cynical first post. But I digress… shouldn’t the overarching sacrifice regarding work/life balance be based on if you don’t mind putting the hours in Vs tucked up at home disgusted at the thought of a 12 hour+ shift one off, on the basis of doing a fluke “favour” for their firm? In essence to me it’s a cushy flat rate vs a mediocre O/T incentive that only kicks in after 40 hour with a turd base rate? the latter I imagine encourages you to stretch past 40hr p/w every time to earn an half decent pay packet as standard. No thanks I’ll take the decent basic with the flat rate overtime?
Is it possible that wages peaked during a time to encourage drivers to shift from their current position, but have simply ceased rising further now because “all such positions have since been filled”?
Contracts are Contracts - after all. If you’re not moving about, then there doesn’t seem to be any back-walking of any wages already having risen since the lockdown?
I work in the waste water industry. My basic salary is just under £36k for a 37 hour week. Overtime is 1.25. Also get a fuel bonus which I’ve never failed to get at £50 a month.
Bonus every six months for no damage/sick and good productivity which is usually worth £500.
Pushing cages for £39,060 basic, plus Fleet Board bonus of £100-£200 pm, plus overtime, plus night out money if you want to go slow & don’t like sleeping with your wife, 4 day week, no sundays, average 48hr, £50k+ achievable.
Avonmouth area 46.25 hrs per week £16.42 + 33% for weekends 25% for 22:00-06:00 Hrs, 50% O/T 88% O/T on weekends 10 week rota with 3 weekends off £48,000-£52,000 for days £56,000-£60,000 nights store deliveries.