W.H.WILLIAMS (spennymoor)

This is a truly fascinating thread and so interesting. There were a few mentions of it not being commented on. I think the amount of views, 5609 shows people are happy to read Carls memories.

I had several interesting PM’s from a member called Springfield Rifles. He too was brought up amongst the family business and could write a story like this. It is possible both companies worked together at some point.

I am going back to the story and will not utter another utterance, except to thank Carl Williams

i couldn’t have put it better , more please carl , dave

rigsby:
i couldn’t have put it better , more please carl , dave

The thing I found hilarious is that the big green machine needs, helicopters, polo ponies and rally cars for their enjoyment. Not so for Carl Williams Grandfather, he was made up with his own tripe and cow heel bar :laughing:

In 1976 we wanted another AEC Mercury Tractor unit and there were none available. We did locate a Leyland Super Comet, new and unregistered at Arlington Motors. From the list it would appear to have been JVN 474N but I am surprised it wasn’t a Durham Registration.

We paid Arlington and one Saturday morning I left by train, with trade plates to collect it. From memory Arlington were located somewhere near Wembley Football Stadium as I passed it on my way back soon after leaving Arlington.

Just after I had left Arlington rang my dad to apologise that it had been bumped into in their premises and the front section including headlamps and bumper were damage… Dad explained I had left so when I arrived I would decide what to do or whether I would return by train and go back another day.

When I arrived at Arlington they had stripped off the front bumper and the lower panel which included all front lights with no flashers even. Arlington assured me if I took it they would arrange all parts to be brought to us from the nearest Leyland agents and pay our costs to reassemble.

So off I left. When I think back how I was not stopped by the police and taken off the road I never will know and remember every time I saw a police car I expected them to turn round, follow and stop me.

As I was approaching Grantham it was starting to get darker and so I decided I Better Park up for the night before it got dark. Next morning I arrived back at Green Lane to everyone’s surprise that I had been able to drive with such a vehicle.

Arlington kept their word and the parts arrived. The Super Comet was a good vehicle and almost as good as the Mercury. Where did they go so wrong with the Lynx? I could never understand as for quite some time they produced the Super Comet and Lynx side by side and to me they were competing with each other. Does anyone know why they still produced the Super Comet in parallel with the Lynx?

Carl
You asked why Leyland sold the Super Comet and Lynx in parallel and competing against each other.
I presume of the vehicles you had the Comet had a 400 engine and the Lynx the 500 ’ headless wonder ’
Sometime in the early / mid seventies I was at a Leyland promotional ’ roadshow ’ at the Station Hotel in Newcastle part of which was a film which explained that Leyland was trying to establish two transport sysems or solutions the 400 and 500. ( a range of vehicles with 400 engines and a range with 500 engines)
I think they wanted to aim a specific system to specific users.

Continuing about the Lorry Drivers’ strike

RHA members who negotiated often were from the older generation whose view was ‘You get what I am prepared to pay you and be thankful’. The thought of a strike never occurred to them and they were totally unprepared for it. I remember my Grandfather who was brought to Green Lane for a day out and caused trouble by saying of holiday pay’, ‘My Harry pays you a wage each week for the work you do and you are happy with it? Why then do you expect him to pay for your holiday? If you want a holiday then save up and pay for it yourself and don’t expect any wages when you’re off work not earning any money. We took him home before he caused a strike.

I said and canvassed that the RHA should recruit an employee experienced in Industrial Relations; poach one from the unions if possible. After all today if people want public relations representative they get Max Clifford they don’t go to a part time reporter from a local free newspaper. I don’t know how wage negotiations go on today in Road Transport Industry as I have had no connections since 1986 but in those days RHA should have been more professional even if it meant another few pounds on their membership fees

Trade Union representatives were. I believe more professional than our trade gave them credit. They were two faced, as they needed to be. They would meet the likes of myself and agree with what we had to say, and appear to be your best friend. Then they would go back to the trade union membership and call us and say we were worthless rogues riding round in our Mercedes and screwing our drivers for every penny. They had to be like that after all it was they that had to sell any compromise or deal to the membership. They were walking tightropes.

The Government wanted rid of the Road Haulage wages Council as they thought it reduced competition between hauliers. RHA members thought in many cases it robbed them of the chance of paying much worse wages. Finally the unions thought it would split the trade and make things like the Lorry Drivers Strike possible.

In the end the lorry drivers strike did no good to anyone. It helped to create a situation where the established hauliers gradually went out of business. To an extent the drivers got their money but it led to more and more hauliers paying wages such as percentage of vehicle earnings that in the old days had the Road Haulage wages Council gone through the log books (Or as it was then Tacho Charts) calculated the hours worked and subsistence entitlement etc and compared this with say 17% of vehicle earnings it would have found the drivers in many cases were underpaid.

I have been asked what caused our downfall; well the strike was the first of many nails put in our coffin.

I will in next day or so continue with talks between ourselves, Direct Transport at Shildon and John Dee Transport that got us back on the road quicker and also how some others worked through the strike.

tyneside:
In 1976 we wanted another AEC Mercury Tractor unit and there were none available. We did locate a Leyland Super Comet, new and unregistered at Arlington Motors. From the list it would appear to have been JVN 474N but I am surprised it wasn’t a Durham Registration.

We paid Arlington and one Saturday morning I left by train, with trade plates to collect it. From memory Arlington were located somewhere near Wembley Football Stadium as I passed it on my way back soon after leaving Arlington.

Just after I had left Arlington rang my dad to apologise that it had been bumped into in their premises and the front section including headlamps and bumper were damage… Dad explained I had left so when I arrived I would decide what to do or whether I would return by train and go back another day.

When I arrived at Arlington they had stripped off the front bumper and the lower panel which included all front lights with no flashers even. Arlington assured me if I took it they would arrange all parts to be brought to us from the nearest Leyland agents and pay our costs to reassemble.

So off I left. When I think back how I was not stopped by the police and taken off the road I never will know and remember every time I saw a police car I expected them to turn round, follow and stop me.

As I was approaching Grantham it was starting to get darker and so I decided I Better Park up for the night before it got dark. Next morning I arrived back at Green Lane to everyone’s surprise that I had been able to drive with such a vehicle.

Arlington kept their word and the parts arrived. The Super Comet was a good vehicle and almost as good as the Mercury. Where did they go so wrong with the Lynx? I could never understand as for quite some time they produced the Super Comet and Lynx side by side and to me they were competing with each other. Does anyone know why they still produced the Super Comet in parallel with the Lynx?

Carl
You asked why Leyland sold the Super Comet and Lynx in parallel and competing against each other.
I presume of the vehicles you had the Comet had a 400 engine and the Lynx the 500 ’ headless wonder ’
Sometime in the early / mid seventies I was at a Leyland promotional ’ roadshow ’ at the Station Hotel in Newcastle part of which was a film which explained that Leyland was trying to establish two transport sysems or solutions the 400 and 500. ( a range of vehicles with 400 engines and a range with 500 engines)
I think they wanted to aim a specific system to specific users.

Hi Tyneside

The Comet wasn’t too bad . The Lynx which we had boughtb three new were dreadful. Isn’t it a pity they hadn’t put all the money and efforts into improving the Comet into the best and making it a world winner?

With regard the ashtray. I remember my Grandparents had a glass ashtray that was surrounded in a small Goodyear tyre when I was about five. How long they had owned it I don’t know but it certainly was from the late forties. I used to use a spoon as a tyre leaver pretending I was changing tyres.

When you see things on Antique Road Show yours might be worth a bit. But in the longer term with smoking going out of fashion and the Mitchilin Man dating it , you could be surprised at its value in years to come

Best Wishes

Carl

Oh by the way you reminded me it was Tony Cawthorn that used to call to try to sell us an Albion.

I have an ashtray with the Firestone tyre round it

I know it is a 1/4 ( think ) scale of the gum dipped use it as a door stop :blush: still in perfect condition

animal:
I have an ashtray with the Firestone tyre round it

I know it is a 1/4 ( think ) scale of the gum dipped use it as a door stop :blush: still in perfect condition

Snap, when I said goodyear I had doubts whether it was Firestone or goodyear, and thinking back it probably was Firestone

Polly A:
Hi Carl
It’s really interesting to read about W H Williams.
I remember in the 1960’s/1970’s my father and ‘us kids’ spotting your lorries on the A1.
They were always easy to spot with the distinctive livery!
My father, Frank Atkinson, was originally from Spennymoor and I think it was one of his
uncles that started the company (not 100% sure about this).
My parents used to visit Spennymoor and environs in the 1980’s and 1990’s to visit my father’s Williams
relations (from his mother’s side). You may have met him then.
He used to visit his Uncle Harry (not sure whether he was the one who started the company)? He always spoke so fondly
of his uncles and grandparents on the Williams side.
I live in Durham, so have been to Spennymoor on a number of occasions looking for places that my
father used to mention - Gerard Street (where he was born) and King Street school.
Look forward to your reply

Polly (Pauline) Atkinson

Hi Polly, nice to hear from you

Both my father and I were only children but my grandfather had three sisters and two brothers. who were all older than my grandfather.

My aunt Annie lived in Middlesbrough and idalised me apparently as I shared her birthday but she died about 1953.

My aunt Martha lived in Tudhoe and had a daughter Annie Whitehead who I met several times although she was quite old. I think Annie went onto have a daughter Ruth but dhe would be about 80 now if still alive.

My Aunt Kitty marries Fred Stephenson a policeman who was based before he retired ( Again in 1950s in Shildon

My Grandfathers Brother who was about ten years older than my Grandfather was Uncle Jack married to aunt Emmie. and they lived in Sunderland He had several daughters who all died young. He had one son Lenny who had no children and died about 1978 with no children. Its ironic that Lenny was a captain of a ship owned by Cunard and had on one occasion Prince Phillip on board as a guest. He already was quite wealthy when at 80 years old won £800,000 on the pools. Unfortunatly he died before his wife and as they had no children left their estate to a dog’s home.

My Grandfather’s older brother who was the oldest in the familu died relatively young in the 1930’s with cancer. i believe he was called Jim and I have no knoledge of his family.

Best wishes

Carl

Carl Williams:

animal:
I have an ashtray with the Firestone tyre round it

I know it is a 1/4 ( think ) scale of the gum dipped use it as a door stop :blush: still in perfect condition

Snap, when I said goodyear I had doubts whether it was Firestone or goodyear, and thinking back it probably was Firestone

In my inheritance is a similar ashtray, but this one has a Tractor back on it. I think that is Firestone. They took more changing with a teaspoon :stuck_out_tongue:

Waiting for more Carl. It is brilliant history of such a well known fleet.

A newer Ariel Shot of Green Lane about 1982 I suspect.

From the amount of vehicles in the yard coupled by the amount of cars in the staff car park I would suspect it was a Friday afternoon.

Unfortunately the camera man has concentrated on the area with buildings and has omitted to cover the large area where the majority of HGVs would be parked.

From the Bottom anticlockwise

The Offices joined onto the original workshop. Unfortunately due to the angle of shot we cannot see the transport office and drivers rest room which is connected onto the left hand side of workshop and right hand side of office.

At the bottom left hand side of workshop is the stores/parts department which links the first workshop with the newer second workshop

In front of the stores where an artic is passing and you can see the TK breakdown reversed in is a wash area complete with ramp for steam cleaning. Note to the left-hand side of breakdown you can see a brick wall which protected anyone going into the entrance of the stores. The stores also had hatches at each side into each workshop.

Next to the new workshop you can see the Wilcomatic Vehicle wash actually in process of washing a van. No doubt being operated by Frank Morgan… The New workshop had two bays with seventy foot pits in each enabling two tractors and 40 foot trailers to be worked on in ease

At the other side of the trees is the staff car park. The vast area for HGV parking is not visible on the photo but was large enough to park with ease of access over 150 HGVs

Opposite side you can see a caravan with what appears to be a mess. The caravan belonged to two Hungarian roofers who are working installing the roof on the new bodyshop/paintshop which was under construction when this photo was taken. The mess is the roofing materials they are using. Carrying on to the left is the new body/Paint shop and you can see the roof is not completed as the photo was taken. Carrying on to the left is 12,000 gallon fuel tank which I coupled to our old 6,000 tank which was relocated nearby. They were piped underground to the fuelling area where you can see a tractor unit and a van at the other side filling up where the van in front of the tractor is pulling off to park and another van behind the tractor unit lined up and waiting.
We had a total of 18,000 gallon diesel storage in total. Next comes the warehouse which was 190 ft by 85 ft at the left hand side of the warehouse on the right as you passed through the gates is the security cabin.

Wheel Nut:
This is a truly fascinating thread and so interesting. There were a few mentions of it not being commented on. I think the amount of views, 5609 shows people are happy to read Carls memories.

I had several interesting PM’s from a member called Springfield Rifles. He too was brought up amongst the family business and could write a story like this. It is possible both companies worked together at some point.

I am going back to the story and will not utter another utterance, except to thank Carl Williams

Hi Wheel Nut,

Thank you for your comments, feedback like yours gives so much encouragement

Best Wishes

Carl

rigsby:
i couldn’t have put it better , more please carl , dave

hi Rigsby

Thank you so much for the encouragement

Best wishes

Carl

hiya,
Carl just wondering if you have checked your t/net mailbox??.
thanks harry long retired.

harry_gill:
hiya,
Carl just wondering if you have checked your t/net mailbox??.
thanks harry long retired.

Think he has Harry

If you dont do a book at least most of it is here for all to read dont really like to but in too much :blush:

Will you be at the Labour Club Newcastle sat night :question:

Continuing about the Lorry Drivers’ strike

At ten o’clock one evening our driver’s went on official strike. There were however many drivers who were away from home and in every case they completed their work and returned back to Spennymoor to join the strike as soon as their work tasks were completed,

The Hub of the strike was Thorn with their closed shop but even in 1979 they were spending in excess of £2Million a year with us. A significant sum today but when you adjust for inflation it will be nearer 10 times in 2011 figures.

Only drivers were on strike, which left porters, warehouse staff, traffic staff, Office staff and maintenance staff still working. Vehicles were still being tested at Darlington Test Station and maintained as normal. And work was carrying on as normal, be it that we had no substantial income. We weren’t just like an average haulier, our work was much more specialised and our overheads reflected that fact.

We could have easily got most if not all the drivers to work and many of our customers were not unionised. Who I felt really sorry for were the people who had removals booked by us. They had sold their homes and needed to move.
Hoults at Newcastle for one had continued with management and fitters driving to enable removals to go ahead, but we decided not to antagonise the situation and ensure no work was done. We wanted the strike over as soon as possible without ant unwelcome consequences.

Most, if not all our customers agreed with us and gave us their moral support. Our telephones were as busy as usual mostly asking about progress and how long the strike might go on. Our driver’s picketed Courtaulds to protect their jobs…

As I explained as well as us working for Thorn there was Direct Transport at Shildon and John Dee at Ferryhill. Only five years earlier Direct had traded as Davisons Transport and John Davison had been joint Managing Director with John Monk. Trouble, which I’m sure I could recount if it was not for possibly legal consequences, had broken out with Northern Land who were the parent Company of Davisons and John Davison, which resulted in John’s desk being emptied and being escorted from the premises. Davisons were renamed Direct Transport.

John went on to form John Dee and there were no direct conversations between Direct and John Dee. Direct was run by John Monk an accountant who I feel I could best describe as a gentleman. He was a Gentleman surrounded by a pack of to be polite let me describe them as likeable rogues. Direct was effectively run by a chap called Dennis Coates, who was I believe related to a scrap dealer Coates of I Think Fencehouses. I honestly believe Monk either didn’t know of some of Diirect’s working practices or turned a blind eye. Coates claimed and seemed to run the place and also was TGWU shop Stewart. He said his\ workers would do what he said.

Consequently three way telephone conversations regularly took place between me, Coates of Direct Transport and John and passing conversation between the two along with my input, talking to each with two phones at the same time,. Infect it was more of a 4 way conversation with Pearl Davison, John’s then wife constantly interrupting and giving her thoughts and advise to John. It seemed to me that at that time John was relying on Pearl’s advice a lot.

Eventually we had a meeting with the MD of Thorn at Spennymoor. It was agreed that we would get the full support from Thorn’s unions to return to work, so it was agreed that three vehicles, one of ours, one of Direct and one pf John Dee going through the barrier at Thorn, together the next morning at 8-00AM and so we were back at work. I think the strike went on for quite some time after that but we were back at work with all our customers content…

Coates later told me that he had found out that had JD not returned within two days they would have gone under. ‘And if I had known that’ he went on to tell me ‘I would have made sure the strike would have gone on another week and we would have got rid of that bxxxxxd once and for all’.

My wife to be (at that time) worked as our receptionist/telephonist and was given the job to ring all our drivers telling them to get themselves back to work, With Caroline Vane the telephone number was at her family home, just .a small house a few miles from Staindrop which looked like Brideshead revisited and was much more impressive that Raby Castle. ‘Barnard Here’ came the reply to her phone call and she went on to ask Lord Barnard to tell his daughter she had to return to work.

PHMOTORS:

Carl Williams:
A photograph of our stand at an exhibition of employers and businesses in County Durham to promote trade in that area in the newly completed Recreation Centre at Spennymoor. The young lady in the background was Linda Turnbull one of our office staff at that time around 1978.The offuce staff took turns to be on the stand along with myself to greet guests and perhaps give them a cup of coffee and answer any of their questions.I well remember the girls from Metro Radio together with presenters who were airing their programs live. Linda Turnbull used to live in Kelloe and I’m sure will have married and changed her name since that time, but if anyone from Kelloe, Coxhoe area recognises her I am sure if they let her know she would be pleased to be able to look back at this photograph, and who knows but it is possible she has photos from her time at W.H.Williams she could share

Linda Turnbulls sister maxine lives next door to a pal of mine in kelloe i,ll pass this info to him just in case she doe,snt know about this forum i,m sure she would be interested & hopefully have some old photos, i will post again when i get an answer.

Hi PHMOTOES
Did you ever manageto contact Linda.

I have another photo from a different exhibition and I cannot remember it or who the member of staff is

Strange as it seems I can remember the Exhibition Linda is in but this one I cannot. I’m sure Linda will know. Also I remember her always talking abot her sister Maxime who was only about 10 or so and I think she brought her into work with her once.

I attach the other exhibition photo but I can send it directly to Linda if its inconvenient to go onto this site. My Email address is carl@carlwilliams.co.uk so perhaps email me and I will send Email with this photo attached for her to tell me who it is etc

Regards
Carl

When weeks after my seventeenth birthday I passed my driving test in October 1964 it gave me mobility and freedom of visiting other operator’s premises and see their vehicles. Hayward & Robinson at Garden Street Darlington, Stanley Robinson at Freehams Darlington and Craigs at Harris Street Darlington to name three. Unfortunatly I never took a camera or I might have had some interesting photos for scrapbook memories,

Before that my sightings had been confined to when I travelled down the A! With dad, either in a car or vans. I was always in my youth impressed by Alfred Bell from Newcastle, TT Liddle at Stanley Craigs who when I was very young running very large O Model Bedfords delivering Paton and Baldwin’s wool . Hoult’s and Pickfords never impressed me as I found them boring. Most of all I liked to see the vehicles of the smaller operators which usually were more original.

My other hobby was reading Yellow Pages, whenever I stayed in other areas of the country. This is something very few people could understand, but by reading Yellow Pages you could find out who was operating where and often there were photos or artists impressions of their vehicles.

One time in particular comes to mind. I was staying at the Welcome Hotel Stratford on Avon with my ex wife for a weekend break. I was lying on the bed completely naked reading Yellow Pages when she suggested she would go downstairs to the bar to get us both drinks. When she got there she was greeted by a waiter who told her that he would carry the tray with the drinks upstairs for her to our room. She told me all she could think was me lying there reading Yellow Pages, and told him it was alright as she could manage.
‘It would be more than my job’s worth to let you carry them up’, he went on. So she had no alternative but to let him accompany her to the room and into it so he could place the tray down on a table. At this point Yellow Pages served another purpose to hide my modesty!

Carl
You asked why Leyland sold the Super Comet and Lynx in parallel and competing against each other.
I presume of the vehicles you had the Comet had a 400 engine and the Lynx the 500 ’ headless wonder ’
Sometime in the early / mid seventies I was at a Leyland promotional ’ roadshow ’ at the Station Hotel in Newcastle part of which was a film which explained that Leyland was trying to establish two transport sysems or solutions the 400 and 500. ( a range of vehicles with 400 engines and a range with 500 engines)
I think they wanted to aim a specific system to specific users.
[/quote]
We were lucky enough to buy two headless wonders both 4x2 tippers, one SWB & one MWB, both ended up 6 wheelers, one rear steer and one double drive. One of them had an engine problem, the engine had to be removed and stripped from the bottom end up. It turned out that we required a piston and liner not having a clue as how to remove the liner from the block we contacted Leyland on the Team Valley who said that they had not done a one but had kit to do the job and we could borrow it. It was clear to see that the kit was new and unused and contained no instructions, PAW123 and myself finally worked out that part of the tool cut a rim into the liner and the puller expanded into the groove to allow it to be pulled out; then came the crunch, Leyland only supplied pistons and not liners! To cut a long story short we managed to find a liner with the correct o/d and had the bore machined out. The vehicle was built back up and both trucks sold shortly after.
As for the Lynx vs Super Comet debate, we changed from Comets to Badgers and Reivers to Retrievers which were a far superior with the de-rated 600 engine, the only weakness been the AEC box.

Carl Williams:
My other hobby was reading Yellow Pages, whenever I stayed in other areas of the country. This is something very few people could understand, but by reading Yellow Pages you could find out who was operating where and often there were photos or artists impressions of their vehicles.

Not the strangest hobby apart from wearing them. :stuck_out_tongue:
My friend worked for a local wheeler dealer who bought and sold tractors. I spent hours in the office reading Yellow Pages, he had every single area in the UK and used to send his son out armed with a YP to contact all the farmers and try to buy a tractor or two. My job was to try to find these farms whilst driving his old F86 with a drawbar trailer to collect the purchased stock.

Great Story about the rise and fall of JD.