W.H.WILLIAMS (spennymoor)

[coady1uk]

Carl Williams:

coady1uk:
Hello Carl or should it be Mr Williams as it was for me back in the day. You may not remember me as i only worked for you in the final 4 years. I was the young boy in the garage on the YTS scheme always to be found following David Brannon around. David was known for not suffering fools and if you didn’t show any promise he wouldn’t take a lot of interest in you. Anyway i must of had something as i was under his tutelege for my entire 4 years with you, and what an education, so many good memories. Like changing the clutch on a TM tractor in Dalwhinnie at the side of the road in a thunder storm. Why is it i look on that as being a good time? The thought of doing it now seems like a miserable ordeal, but when youth is on your side it never really mattered. It was David Brannon who pushed me to ask you for a job after my YTS had finished. I remember plucking up the courage to ask THE BOSS for a job and mumbling something to you about work going forward, you said you would have a word with Alan Henderson and low and behold ‘start on Monday’ made me the happiest kid in town. I only spoke to your Father once when i had to weld the exhaust on his car which i believe was a Rolls or Bentley, correct me if i am wrong. As you say a true gentleman, what i would call an old school manager with a human edge reather than the modern university churned, soul less, zero experience, career managers that proliferate now. How times change.
Some names for you from my garage perspective:-
David Brannon
Martin Wade
Alan Henderson
Colin Porter
Kenny Armstrong
Tommy (trailer fitter, surname escapes me)
Stephen Cairns
Mickey ‘solo’ (nightshift fitter)
Harry ‘the painter’ (surname escapes me)
Terry (no surname again, storeman)
Drivers that stand out:-
Ray Juler (top bloke)
Geof Welford (a story for every occasion)
Kenny Hardy (and his ever lasting Atkinson Borderer)

Hi Coady1UK

It’s so good to hear from you. Many people won’t believe it but it gives me so much pleasure to hear of people, like you who have benefited either from an apprentice like you had or gained from their experiences with us.

Unfortunately you do not state your name so it difficult for me to remember you, would you please give me your name and I probably will. I am suffering with dementure and it’s strange I can so well remember things from long ago but my memory seems to get worse from the eighties onwards.

Two mechanics you didn’t mention, who were both excellent at their work was Tommy Mangles and ■■■■ Porter who was Colin Porter’s uncle.

Tommy was instrumental in us employing David Brannon who was into his third year as an apprentice when he joined us. He took a five year apprentice and although its always my opinion that you should measure someone’s work by the ability to do the job rather than by bits of paper, it did work out in David’s case and my dad always said that as far as technical knowledge was concerned David had the most, and he was well qualified to be a workshop Forman and probably fleet engineer.

You are correct it was a Rolls Royce Dad drove and by you welding the exhaust will have saved a fortune as parts were very expensive.

Sadly, from the list you gave me Colin Porter, Terry the store man (Like you I cannot remember his name but his wife had a café in Wolsingham), Ray Juler and Kenny Hardy are no longer with us.

Please if you think of anything else to tell us or have any photos please add them on the site

Best wishes

Carl

Hello again Carl, sorry for taking so long to reply but work interrupts.
My name is John Coad.
I agree with your Fathers assessment of David Brannon, we got on very well and in conversation with him he had said he had an opportunity to get further education and get letters after his name, which in those days was the exception rather than the common occurrence it is now, but said he was far more interested in getting his hands dirty.
Tommy Mangles i remember now you have provided the Surname, he was there during my last 2 years as i believe he had left and then came back towards the end. He worked in the ‘Bottom Shop’ as the trailer fitter and helping Kenny Armstrong with the MOT vehicles.
Dicky Porter, if i remember correctly was a night shift fitter and when he left Colin Porter went on to the night shift to replace him.
Myself, after finishing with Williams i had a pretty miserable 2 years as one of Maggies Millions, i then went and stayed with my Dad in Banbury and within 3 days i was working at a local garage, what a difference in areas. Working on the ‘little stuff’ was nowhere near as interesting as working on HGV. I then went to Alcan Extrusions, Banbury, and worked in engineering there for 19 years doing maintenance on the press tooling, a very interesting job that one. Alcan has shut down now and all work moved to Hungary as is the way nowadays. I am now Driving a Coach, the Oxford Tube, to London twice a day from Oxford.
Love the stories
Best regards
John

[carl_williams]

coady1uk:

Carl Williams:

coady1uk:
Hello Carl or should it be Mr Williams as it was for me back in the day. You may not remember me as i only worked for you in the final 4 years. I was the young boy in the garage on the YTS scheme always to be found following David Brannon around. David was known for not suffering fools and if you didn’t show any promise he wouldn’t take a lot of interest in you. Anyway i must of had something as i was under his tutelege for my entire 4 years with you, and what an education, so many good memories. Like changing the clutch on a TM tractor in Dalwhinnie at the side of the road in a thunder storm. Why is it i look on that as being a good time? The thought of doing it now seems like a miserable ordeal, but when youth is on your side it never really mattered. It was David Brannon who pushed me to ask you for a job after my YTS had finished. I remember plucking up the courage to ask THE BOSS for a job and mumbling something to you about work going forward, you said you would have a word with Alan Henderson and low and behold ‘start on Monday’ made me the happiest kid in town. I only spoke to your Father once when i had to weld the exhaust on his car which i believe was a Rolls or Bentley, correct me if i am wrong. As you say a true gentleman, what i would call an old school manager with a human edge reather than the modern university churned, soul less, zero experience, career managers that proliferate now. How times change.
Some names for you from my garage perspective:-
David Brannon
Martin Wade
Alan Henderson
Colin Porter
Kenny Armstrong
Tommy (trailer fitter, surname escapes me)
Stephen Cairns
Mickey ‘solo’ (nightshift fitter)
Harry ‘the painter’ (surname escapes me)
Terry (no surname again, storeman)
Drivers that stand out:-
Ray Juler (top bloke)
Geof Welford (a story for every occasion)
Kenny Hardy (and his ever lasting Atkinson Borderer)

Hi Coady1UK

It’s so good to hear from you. Many people won’t believe it but it gives me so much pleasure to hear of people, like you who have benefited either from an apprentice like you had or gained from their experiences with us.

Unfortunately you do not state your name so it difficult for me to remember you, would you please give me your name and I probably will. I am suffering with dementure and it’s strange I can so well remember things from long ago but my memory seems to get worse from the eighties onwards.

Two mechanics you didn’t mention, who were both excellent at their work was Tommy Mangles and ■■■■ Porter who was Colin Porter’s uncle.

Tommy was instrumental in us employing David Brannon who was into his third year as an apprentice when he joined us. He took a five year apprentice and although its always my opinion that you should measure someone’s work by the ability to do the job rather than by bits of paper, it did work out in David’s case and my dad always said that as far as technical knowledge was concerned David had the most, and he was well qualified to be a workshop Forman and probably fleet engineer.

You are correct it was a Rolls Royce Dad drove and by you welding the exhaust will have saved a fortune as parts were very expensive.

Sadly, from the list you gave me Colin Porter, Terry the store man (Like you I cannot remember his name but his wife had a café in Wolsingham), Ray Juler and Kenny Hardy are no longer with us.

Please if you think of anything else to tell us or have any photos please add them on the site

Best wishes

Carl

Hello again Carl, sorry for taking so long to reply but work interrupts.
My name is John Coad.
I agree with your Fathers assessment of David Brannon, we got on very well and in conversation with him he had said he had an opportunity to get further education and get letters after his name, which in those days was the exception rather than the common occurrence it is now, but said he was far more interested in getting his hands dirty.
Tommy Mangles i remember now you have provided the Surname, he was there during my last 2 years as i believe he had left and then came back towards the end. He worked in the ‘Bottom Shop’ as the trailer fitter and helping Kenny Armstrong with the MOT vehicles.
Dicky Porter, if i remember correctly was a night shift fitter and when he left Colin Porter went on to the night shift to replace him.
Myself, after finishing with Williams i had a pretty miserable 2 years as one of Maggies Millions, i then went and stayed with my Dad in Banbury and within 3 days i was working at a local garage, what a difference in areas. Working on the ‘little stuff’ was nowhere near as interesting as working on HGV. I then went to Alcan Extrusions, Banbury, and worked in engineering there for 19 years doing maintenance on the press tooling, a very interesting job that one. Alcan has shut down now and all work moved to Hungary as is the way nowadays. I am now Driving a Coach, the Oxford Tube, to London twice a day from Oxford.
Love the stories
Best regards
John

Hi John

Thanks for replying and who knows david Brannon mat well yet read this site and we might hear from him. I have found another Arial photo which I will be adding in the next few weeks which must have been taken in 1984 aprox. It shows the bottom workshop, the stores and the Wilcomatic vehicle wash and some people scattered about walking accross the yard.Who knows one could be you, or me for that matter. The new body shop is nearly built and you can see the roofer’s working on it. You might find this of interest and also I have been promised more van photos including one in Earls Court o the Bedford Marsden exibited there in the Commercial Motor Show, so hopefully you will find further intrest in weeks to come.

Pleased to hear you are keeping well and if you think of anything more that happened whilst you were there please contribute again.

Best wishes

Carl

[carl_williams]

The first HGV vehicle I drove was VPT828F , a Bedford Marsden SB with a full fibreglass body including integral cab and roof, like so many before it had been collected by my dad about a week or so before in Grey Primer on trade plates from Warrington.

The first difference for VPT was that I, still just twenty had painted it. Strangely I hadn’t made a bad job of it. I had sprayed (Only two vehicles ever spayed always brush painted) it Cream and then taped off the brown areas and brush painted them and the cab.

Not knowing or thinking of wearing a mask I had paint in my eyes and ears and my nose was completely blocked for several days. Once again I probably had found myself alone and wanted to get it finished before someone came and stopped me. In those days we used to take all the wheels off standing the van on axle stands and paint the wheels and the hubs whilst off by hand making sure there was no paint at all on the tyres. The wheels were then put on and the nuts painted and touched up, finally a thin brown line was painted round each wheel. Peter Butler had just sign written it and it was standing in the garage at Marmaduke Street waiting for its maiden journey when it was to be driven by Colin Watson for several years.

A company in Bishop Auckland that we delivered for called Sloans had rang to say they had a couple of urgent deliveries. No other vehicle was in and no other driver was there, so off I went. There were no HGV licences in those days and that morning I was twenty one.

Going to Bishop Auckland was no problem but Sloan’s was at the top end of Newgate Street so I decided to go down South Church under the bridge and round the top to Newgate Street. I would have been killed if I bumped it and was on my own, quite happily driving my first HGV. For anyone who was familiar with the route the bridge was very narrow and you had to keep central and at an angle to get through with a 30ft by 8ft by13foot high van. Now there are traffic lights and only one vehicle is allowed though at once. In those days you could guarantee you met a stupid car driver coming through the other way who never would understand you were central as if you moved over one inch the top of the van would hit the corner of the bridge.

I did the job and when I got back to Marmaduke Street was neither praised nor told off as I had just done what was expected of me.

[legion]

Carl Williams:
The first HGV vehicle I drove was VPT828F , a Bedford Marsden SB with a full fibreglass body including integral cab and roof, like so many before it had been collected by my dad about a week or so before in Grey Primer on trade plates from Warrington.

The first difference for VPT was that I, still just twenty had painted it. Strangely I hadn’t made a bad job of it. I had sprayed (Only two vehicles ever spayed always brush painted) it Cream and then taped off the brown areas and brush painted them and the cab.

Not knowing or thinking of wearing a mask I had paint in my eyes and ears and my nose was completely blocked for several days. Once again I probably had found myself alone and wanted to get it finished before someone came and stopped me. In those days we used to take all the wheels off standing the van on axle stands and paint the wheels and the hubs whilst off by hand making sure there was no paint at all on the tyres. The wheels were then put on and the nuts painted and touched up, finally a thin brown line was painted round each wheel. Peter Butler had just sign written it and it was standing in the garage at Marmaduke Street waiting for its maiden journey when it was to be driven by Colin Watson for several years.

A company in Bishop Auckland that we delivered for called Sloans had rang to say they had a couple of urgent deliveries. No other vehicle was in and no other driver was there, so off I went. There were no HGV licences in those days and that morning I was twenty one.

Going to Bishop Auckland was no problem but Sloan’s was at the top end of Newgate Street so I decided to go down South Church under the bridge and round the top to Newgate Street. I would have been killed if I bumped it and was on my own, quite happily driving my first HGV. For anyone who was familiar with the route the bridge was very narrow and you had to keep central and at an angle to get through with a 30ft by 8ft by13foot high van. Now there are traffic lights and only one vehicle is allowed though at once. In those days you could guarantee you met a stupid car driver coming through the other way who never would understand you were central as if you moved over one inch the top of the van would hit the corner of the bridge.

I did the job and when I got back to Marmaduke Street was neither praised nor told off as I had just done what was expected of me.

Hi Carl
How did you get on with the old marsden integrals i own a vanplan now and found it a varry odd experiance driving ,being so far away from the edge of the cab ?

[tyneside]

Hello Read with interest your stories about Adams & Gibbon. We always dealt with the Newcastle branch which was at Corner of Dunn St and Skinnerburn road next to the Tyne. The salesman was George Dodsworth who had worked there for years. School holidays etc there was a daily trip (sometimes twice a day) to A&G for spares. I think the stores foreman was called Ronnie Scott and there was also another chap but I cannot remember his name. Nothing was too much trouble to them and spares were always available. Not like the chronic situation we had with Leyland in the seventies.
Like a lot hauliers in the late fifties/ early sixties we had quite few Bedfords. O and S models, TK and KM. I think we had one of the first KM tippers in the Tyneside area reg no ECN 230 E. They were a bit of a disaster !!
Not sure when The TK,s were introduced but we had two 4 wheel flats with cattle bodies. RegTNL 360 had a Leyland engine and VJR 711 had the Bedford engine. They were both very early sixties.
We also had several short wheel base 4 wheel tippers with steel bodies. These were all bought new new over a short period of time and apart from the reg nos looked pretty much identical.
At this time we doing the muckshift for the new Fruit market on the Team Valley. The whole trading estate is built on a bog and hence the site was very wet and we had huge problems with half shafts and diffs. This was in the days before VIN plates etc. We had a couple of similar TK tippers standing in the yard untaxed but roadworthy and so to keep the job going we sometimes had to take the number plates and tax discs from the broken down vehicle and put them onto the untaxed vehicle. We did it so many times we had to ask A&G who supplied the vehicles to check their records to see which chassis no belonged to which reg no.

[carl_williams]

legion:

Carl Williams:
The first HGV vehicle I drove was VPT828F , a Bedford Marsden SB with a full fibreglass body including integral cab and roof, like so many before it had been collected by my dad about a week or so before in Grey Primer on trade plates from Warrington.

The first difference for VPT was that I, still just twenty had painted it. Strangely I hadn’t made a bad job of it. I had sprayed (Only two vehicles ever spayed always brush painted) it Cream and then taped off the brown areas and brush painted them and the cab.

Not knowing or thinking of wearing a mask I had paint in my eyes and ears and my nose was completely blocked for several days. Once again I probably had found myself alone and wanted to get it finished before someone came and stopped me. In those days we used to take all the wheels off standing the van on axle stands and paint the wheels and the hubs whilst off by hand making sure there was no paint at all on the tyres. The wheels were then put on and the nuts painted and touched up, finally a thin brown line was painted round each wheel. Peter Butler had just sign written it and it was standing in the garage at Marmaduke Street waiting for its maiden journey when it was to be driven by Colin Watson for several years.

A company in Bishop Auckland that we delivered for called Sloans had rang to say they had a couple of urgent deliveries. No other vehicle was in and no other driver was there, so off I went. There were no HGV licences in those days and that morning I was twenty one.

Going to Bishop Auckland was no problem but Sloan’s was at the top end of Newgate Street so I decided to go down South Church under the bridge and round the top to Newgate Street. I would have been killed if I bumped it and was on my own, quite happily driving my first HGV. For anyone who was familiar with the route the bridge was very narrow and you had to keep central and at an angle to get through with a 30ft by 8ft by13foot high van. Now there are traffic lights and only one vehicle is allowed though at once. In those days you could guarantee you met a stupid car driver coming through the other way who never would understand you were central as if you moved over one inch the top of the van would hit the corner of the bridge.

I did the job and when I got back to Marmaduke Street was neither praised nor told off as I had just done what was expected of me.

Hi Carl
How did you get on with the old marsden integrals i own a vanplan now and found it a varry odd experiance driving ,being so far away from the edge of the cab ?

Hi legion
Our first Marsden was a 1953 Bedford SB petrol passenger chassis. The body and integral cab although looking similar to our first diesel SB was made out of Plymax sheeting with the cab and front crafted out of aluminium to give the curved shape similarly the roof was similar to roofs from other manufacturers of the time.

4479PT had cab and font end and roof made out of moulded fibreglass and in 1965 with JUP945C we had our first fully fibreglass body. Our last SB was VPT828F when we went to use Bedford TK chassis scuttle as the chassis base. The SB’s even without power steering where very good to drive.

The SB was a passenger chassis designed to be 7ft 6 in wide until increased to 8ft wide. And so the driving position would be as designed. With the TK the cab was designed as much narrower and so Marsden and Vanplan had to extend the floor wider to the doors and so you would feel the width factor, although this is the first time I have heard it mentioned. All our drivers would by far appreciate the sleeper cab element and the extra space behind the seats and above the engine afforded by the integral body.

We had pantechnicons and luton vans built within weeks of each other and in my opinion and all drivers I have spoken to was no comparison to drive with the integral seeming such a better vehicle

If you have read my description of DPT 100B a Morris FG 2 tonner which Marsden built for us an integral van on the Morris chassis scuttles. In this the extra width was really noticeable and it wasn’t so nice to drive, to say the least.

You are right to link together Marsden with Vanplan as they both were designed by Arthur Rathbone who left Marsden’ when he and Gerry Crowe formed Vanplan… With other bodybuilders we had body bolts come loose. Marsden and Vanplan welded directly onto the chassis so no such problem> The back frames provided they were not bumped never budged or warped with doors, shutters and tailboards fitting as good after 14 years life.

They both had the same DNA coming from 1953 and before and both were incredible coachbuilders. Your van if it is in Glass Fibre will last forever. The only problem we did have with the TK’s was the Scuttle part made by Bedford Rotted. On many we had to cut away the front of the cab and cut off and replace the original scuttle and floor pan replace from second hand cabs we bought and then rebond back on the fibreglass front. This was Bedford fault not Marsden. I do remember one scuttle was red and had coal and coke written on the front, but once it was covered with the moulded glass fibre it would be seen no more.

We paid our drivers a good subsistence allowance and at one time it was illegal to sleep in the van as the law stated the driver had to stay 8 hours away from the vehicle. We turned a blind eye to them sleeping in the van as it added to security, and in fact with the Seddon passenger chassis both Marsden and Vanplan built for us we had hatches made as between the cab and the luton to facilitate easy access for drivers wishing to sleep above the cab.

Please tell me about your van Reg no engine size etc and if you can please upload a photograph

Best wishes

Carl

[legion]

Hi Carl Mine is 1973 bedford tk with the 330 engien it was new to my the Family firm ( A Casserly & son) with an alloy body but after a coming together with a bridge it was rebodied by Vanplan in 1978 with the integral body it has now. in 1986 my dad sold it to a local Company R J Phillips and sons where it remained in service untill they retired in 2007 when i bought it back. while in our service it was painted yellow and used on a contract with a local tyre company fitting rally tyres for dunlop i have a picture of it somewhere with an mk 2 ■■■■■■ next to it
here are ther before and after pics


[/quote]

[carl_williams]

tyneside:
Hello Read with interest your stories about Adams & Gibbon. We always dealt with the Newcastle branch which was at Corner of Dunn St and Skinnerburn road next to the Tyne. The salesman was George Dodsworth who had worked there for years. School holidays etc there was a daily trip (sometimes twice a day) to A&G for spares. I think the stores foreman was called Ronnie Scott and there was also another chap but I cannot remember his name. Nothing was too much trouble to them and spares were always available. Not like the chronic situation we had with Leyland in the seventies.
Like a lot hauliers in the late fifties/ early sixties we had quite few Bedfords. O and S models, TK and KM. I think we had one of the first KM tippers in the Tyneside area reg no ECN 230 E. They were a bit of a disaster !!
Not sure when The TK,s were introduced but we had two 4 wheel flats with cattle bodies. RegTNL 360 had a Leyland engine and VJR 711 had the Bedford engine. They were both very early sixties.
We also had several short wheel base 4 wheel tippers with steel bodies. These were all bought new new over a short period of time and apart from the reg nos looked pretty much identical.
At this time we doing the muckshift for the new Fruit market on the Team Valley. The whole trading estate is built on a bog and hence the site was very wet and we had huge problems with half shafts and diffs. This was in the days before VIN plates etc. We had a couple of similar TK tippers standing in the yard untaxed but roadworthy and so to keep the job going we sometimes had to take the number plates and tax discs from the broken down vehicle and put them onto the untaxed vehicle. We did it so many times we had to ask A&G who supplied the vehicles to check their records to see which chassis no belonged to which reg no.

Hi Tyneside

It’s interesting how one way or another we all, in haulage tended to grow with similar experiences.

I never can remember going to Dunn Street Adams and Gibbon, but I do remember my grandparents going there when they were considering buying a new Daimler in the fifties. Adams and Gibbon were also Daimler Agents at that time. I seem to remember saying it was on the roof or possibly upstairs and that intrigued me a garage upstairs.

Before Adams and Gibbon opened in Durham (before my time) we used to tend to use Sherwoods on Grange Road Darlington, and infact often used them in the sixties on Saturdays as they were open on a Saturday afternoon.

I remember Dad saying they usually used, just after the war Sherwoods for engine reconditioning, but on one occasion using A & G Newcastle and the engine sounded like ‘a bag of hammers’ afterwards, and I seem to remember their commercial workshops were along the side of the Tyne just behind where Newcastle Lighting Centre is now. Also they were useless at building van bodies.

But in my memory the standard of service we received from A & G Durham was excellent. I think the other fleet user that used Durham a lot was Barnfather & Wilkes Sherburn, as they always seemed to be there. On very few occasions when parts were not at Durham we had to go to the new depot at Hebburn Gardens Felling, as it was new and they claimed larger. And I seem to recall going to Sunderland once it was near the side of the Empire Theatre.

Dunn Street was their main branch and all they were a good company.Altough they were listed on the stock exchange and wer a PLC they always seemed to care about their customers. Did you ever need to go to Buists (Morris) or Minories (commer)? They both certainly new how NOT to run main agencies.

I read about your change of reg number and although I can never recall us doing that but I have a tale to tell of someone else when we were extending our Marmaduke Street Garage in 1963 who did just that. However eventually we got Bedfords permission to do our own warranty work, and although we bought the parts from Adams and Gibbon as normal we did all the paperwork and claimed from Bedford and were refunded for parts and our labour costs etc. Isn’t it strange how we had always a few vehicles under guarantee that had problems and claims were made and accepted and identical Bedfords just out of guarantee never had these problems?

Best wishes

Carl

[tyneside]

Hi Carl
Dunn Street was spread over two floors. My Dad always had Vauxhall cars and I remember going with him to collect a new Wyvern and it was upstairs. The stores were also upstairs.
I remember Felling opening. If I am not mistaken I don’t think there was a ramp or pit in the workshop!
Had very little to do with Buist or Minories. In the mid sixties we started to drift towards Albion and mostly dealt with FW Cawthorn on the TVTE. We still had a couple of TK 7.5 ton tippers which were usually on hire to the local council when we sold up in 1988.

[carl_williams]

legion:
Hi Carl Mine is 1973 bedford tk with the 330 engien it was new to my the Family firm ( A Casserly & son) with an alloy body but after a coming together with a bridge it was rebodied by Vanplan in 1978 with the integral body it has now. in 1986 my dad sold it to a local Company R J Phillips and sons where it remained in service untill they retired in 2007 when i bought it back. while in our service it was painted yellow and used on a contract with a local tyre company fitting rally tyres for dunlop i have a picture of it somewhere with an mk 2 ■■■■■■ next to it
here are ther before and after pics

[/quote]
Hi Legion

It certainly looks different and better after vanplan’s efforts. Did they extend the chassis? The vanplan looks a longer wheelbase.
Also do you know was it the KC or KD chassis as we useually had the KF with 900x20 tyres 11.15 ton gross. The KE which we had one of had 825x20 tyres and the wheels look smaller and if it was the case that would explain why it feels wider.

Are you preserving it? and if so good luck

Best wishes

Carl

[legion]

As far as i am aware the wheele base stayed the same. i think it is a kdl i have thet written down somewhere. it was fitted with a larger fuel tank off one of our other tks whis is a nightmare to get off as i recently found out. I am attempting to restore it back to its former glory which is taking sometime . But i am lucky in that i now work for a commercial vehical repairer which has a few old AEC from when they had a haulage company so i do get some encouragement. i also have the quoatation from vanplan for the body and a few old vanplan leaflets which are intresting.

[carl_williams]

Our first full time fitter was ■■■■ Porter, who came to us after working several years at Dents at Tudhoe Colliery. One of the conditions was ■■■■ never drove, not even to take vans for test after plating and testing was introduced. He was self taught without formal qualifications but a good fitter and took quite a while to come to terms working on the simple Bedfords after working on Atkinsons with Gardner engines. His main problem was he was moody.

Soon afterwards we advertised for an apprentice and along came directly from school, which he had hated 15 year old Raymond Russell. Raymond started on a formal apprentice and was the most adaptable young lad you ever could meet. He didn’t like going to college which he thought was too much like school. After a lot of arguments and at risk of upsetting the Road Haulage Industrial Training Board, we allowed him to learn by working. My opinion has always been you should judge someone by their ability to do the job. A bit of paper never impressed me as over the years I have come across many, even graduates who are unable to convert their learning and exam skills into practice.

Raymond was determined and nothing overcome him. Over the years he passed with our training his driving licence and HGV class 1. Over the years he even managed to turn over our Landrover reg new 1969 and about two years old at north Close on the road from Merrington to Merrington Lane. However his determination was such that he managed with some help he commandeered to turn it back on its wheels again. For a time he served as tyre fitter and was the usual one our drivers who broke down found came to their rescue with the breakdown.

As times went on he got married and requested to be transferred to driving class 1 where he continued till 1986. Over the years he was ideally qualified as an HGV driver.

Soon after ■■■■ Kenny Armstrong joined us. He had worked as a mechanic at Hepple’s at Croxdale and when croxdale Service Station took over mid 60’s he left to work for us in the Marmaduke Street Garage, Ken took an interest in our two vintage Bedfords and was usually at rally’s driving one or the other of them.

[carl_williams]

In 1976 we wanted another AEC Mercury Tractor unit and there were none available. We did locate a Leyland Super Comet, new and unregistered at Arlington Motors. From the list it would appear to have been JVN 474N but I am surprised it wasn’t a Durham Registration.

We paid Arlington and one Saturday morning I left by train, with trade plates to collect it. From memory Arlington were located somewhere near Wembley Football Stadium as I passed it on my way back soon after leaving Arlington.

Just after I had left Arlington rang my dad to apologise that it had been bumped into in their premises and the front section including headlamps and bumper were damage… Dad explained I had left so when I arrived I would decide what to do or whether I would return by train and go back another day.

When I arrived at Arlington they had stripped off the front bumper and the lower panel which included all front lights with no flashers even. Arlington assured me if I took it they would arrange all parts to be brought to us from the nearest Leyland agents and pay our costs to reassemble.

So off I left. When I think back how I was not stopped by the police and taken off the road I never will know and remember every time I saw a police car I expected them to turn round, follow and stop me.

As I was approaching Grantham it was starting to get darker and so I decided I Better Park up for the night before it got dark. Next morning I arrived back at Green Lane to everyone’s surprise that I had been able to drive with such a vehicle.

Arlington kept their word and the parts arrived. The Super Comet was a good vehicle and almost as good as the Mercury. Where did they go so wrong with the Lynx? I could never understand as for quite some time they produced the Super Comet and Lynx side by side and to me they were competing with each other. Does anyone know why they still produced the Super Comet in parallel with the Lynx?

[carl_williams]

tyneside:
Hi Carl
Dunn Street was spread over two floors. My Dad always had Vauxhall cars and I remember going with him to collect a new Wyvern and it was upstairs. The stores were also upstairs.
I remember Felling opening. If I am not mistaken I don’t think there was a ramp or pit in the workshop!
Had very little to do with Buist or Minories. In the mid sixties we started to drift towards Albion and mostly dealt with FW Cawthorn on the TVTE. We still had a couple of TK 7.5 ton tippers which were usually on hire to the local council when we sold up in 1988.

Hi Tyneside

Thanks for clarifying the upstairs at Dunn Street I was beginning to think I had been dreaming.

How did you find Cawthorn’s and Albions? Although I remember Cawthorn rep coming to see us regurlary we never bought
anything off them, and Albion is one of the few British makes we never had.One of our customers New Equipment Ltd had two vehicles of their own and I remember they bought two Albion Viking (I think) passenger chassis with pantechnicon bodies by Arlington in about 1963. I remember they were very expensive compared with similar sized Bedfords and were no wear near as reliable/, with operating costs (inc fuel consumption) very poor compared with Bedford SB’s we were buying at the time.

Best wishes
Carl

[carl_williams]

legion:
As far as i am aware the wheele base stayed the same. i think it is a kdl i have thet written down somewhere. it was fitted with a larger fuel tank off one of our other tks whis is a nightmare to get off as i recently found out. I am attempting to restore it back to its former glory which is taking sometime . But i am lucky in that i now work for a commercial vehical repairer which has a few old AEC from when they had a haulage company so i do get some encouragement. i also have the quoatation from vanplan for the body and a few old vanplan leaflets which are intresting.

Hi legion,
Good luck with your efforts and I hope to see a photo when you’re finnished

If you can, could you scan the Vanplan leaflets and post them on this thread. I for one would be interested in reading them as I am sure would be many others

Best wishes
Carl

[legion]

Hi Carl yes thats no problem i will do when i get chance
regards Phill

[polly_a]

Hi Carl
It’s really interesting to read about W H Williams.
I remember in the 1960’s/1970’s my father and ‘us kids’ spotting your lorries on the A1.
They were always easy to spot with the distinctive livery!
My father, Frank Atkinson, was originally from Spennymoor and I think it was one of his
uncles that started the company (not 100% sure about this).
My parents used to visit Spennymoor and environs in the 1980’s and 1990’s to visit my father’s Williams
relations (from his mother’s side). You may have met him then.
He used to visit his Uncle Harry (not sure whether he was the one who started the company)? He always spoke so fondly
of his uncles and grandparents on the Williams side.
I live in Durham, so have been to Spennymoor on a number of occasions looking for places that my
father used to mention - Gerard Street (where he was born) and King Street school.
Look forward to your reply

Polly (Pauline) Atkinson

[tyneside]

Carl Williams:

tyneside:
Hi Carl
Dunn Street was spread over two floors. My Dad always had Vauxhall cars and I remember going with him to collect a new Wyvern and it was upstairs. The stores were also upstairs.
I remember Felling opening. If I am not mistaken I don’t think there was a ramp or pit in the workshop!
Had very little to do with Buist or Minories. In the mid sixties we started to drift towards Albion and mostly dealt with FW Cawthorn on the TVTE. We still had a couple of TK 7.5 ton tippers which were usually on hire to the local council when we sold up in 1988
Hi Tyneside

Thanks for clarifying the upstairs at Dunn Street I was beginning to think I had been dreaming.

How did you find Cawthorn’s and Albions? Although I remember Cawthorn rep coming to see us regurlary we never bought
anything off them, and Albion is one of the few British makes we never had.One of our customers New Equipment Ltd had two vehicles of their own and I remember they bought two Albion Viking (I think) passenger chassis with pantechnicon bodies by Arlington in about 1963. I remember they were very expensive compared with similar sized Bedfords and were no wear near as reliable/, with operating costs (inc fuel consumption) very poor compared with Bedford SB’s we were buying at the time.

Best wishes
Carl[/q

Cawthorns were alway ok to deal with. We usually dealt with Mr (Ted) Cawthorn and then his son Tony. They were originally situated on the big r/bout in trhe middle of the TVTE. They also owned the filling station there. There was a Leyland Motors workshop further along the TVTE. Hargreaves from Stockton then came on the scene, took over Cawthorns and the Leyland premises and consolidated everything into one depot.
The Albions were a better wagon for us when it came to tippers. Most of the tippers had the LAD cab which were a nightmare but we had 2 or 3 flats with cattle containers with the ergomatic tip cab which, for the time, were quite a comfortable cab
One Christmas around 65/66 Mr Cawthorn gave my Father a Bakelite ashtray with a white Michelin man sitting on it. I still have it do you think it may be worth something ■■?

[carl_williams]

Another photo of the 1937 Bedford 2 tonner. I cannot remember this photo or where it was taken. Anyone any ideas?

[carl_williams]

The lorry drivers’ strike from my perspective.

At this time W.H. Williams (Haulage) Ltd had 170 employees with only about half TGWU members. None or very few would have been had it not been that Thorn Domestic Appliances, who accounted for 30% of our turnover allowed their Spennymoor plant which employed about 7,000 to become a closed shop, with union members inspecting union cards at the security gate.

Our drivers were on relatively good wages due to our bonus scheme which I have described on W.H.Williams thread. To give an example a driver was paid 9 hours at double time to drive down to Kingston on Thames, where the majority parked in the London area, on a Sunday afternoon. 11 hours to travel to Portsmouth. We had plenty of work that made overtime readily available. Our base rate however was the agreed industry rate per hour plus subsistence, meal allowances, parking fees etc.

Traditionally wages had been fixed by the Road Haulage Wages Council, which was governed by The Truck Act.(An act of parliament governing several wages councils nothing to do with Trucking) This set out wages per hour to be paid and gave legal right that employees were paid in cash and various other rights. The Road Haulage Wages Council had legal powers to attend our premises and inspect our records to ensure we were paying the correct amount, fine employers who were not and make them pay employees any underpayments.

This was before the days of legal minimum wage but in many ways served a similar purpose. Unions and employers and the government thought the Truck act should be repealed and it was. Also you have to take into consideration the state of the country in the late seventies, when Hughie Green went on television and begged for industrial peace, as he saw unrest and strikes were destroying our great country.

It is easy to criticise the TGWU, whose officials lavished themselves at expensive hotels and over seas meetings at their member’s expense, but at least they were, in my opinion a lot more organised than the employers that consisted of so many hauliers who had no experience with the type of industrial relations that was heading their way.

The unions insisted that they would not negotiate on a national basis but chose regional negotiations. The only negotiators were local Road Haulage Association Comities. In the North East the representatives on these comities were made up of small hauliers who in the majority of cases attended their RHA meetings for a chin wag and drink. The North East committee was made up of some who were little more than owner drivers.

My father and I had discussions with Bob Stephenson of the TGWU representative from Newcastle. For the union the red line was £65.00 for a forty hour week, and haulers had only offered £60. Although a true ballot of union workers would never had voted to strike there were several activists that were determined to bare their teeth and in their eyes bring the country to standstill. At the time our wages were not bad, as I have already said and our problem was absenteeism among some. Particularly on a Monday morning after a good Sunday’s drinking

My answer was to agree to the £60 which was the base rate plus £5.00 per week attendance allowance which gave the union £65.00 which they were demanding but kept the overtime and double time payments and holiday pay based on the £1.50 per hour rate. (In those days holiday pay was paid at 50 hours at basic time) We got agreement and the strike started unofficially and we carried on working paying as our new agreement.

However I was watching News at ten when as Big Ben struck it was announced that the Transport Strike was made official. We had four night shift loaders working within Thorn loading our vehicles and they were told to go home as they were on strike in support of the drivers who were on strike.

We were on strike for nine days and I will over the next day or so on the W.H.Williams Thread explain in detail what happened and some details of back door dealings and personalities that put us and others back on the road earlier that the official end of the strike.