damoq:
Our mob used to pull curtainside trailers for another company, and the curtains clearly stated on them that they were load bearing re-enforced. I think they were called ‘armour sheet’ curtains. It obviously stated that live loads, cages etc would require other means of restraint. So I would say that for straight forward loads on pallets, I wouldn’t need to add any more straps/ropes. But does anyone think VOSA would agree or not?
I think they would count those kind of curtains (which are unusual in the UK) as CONTAINMENT. They are sufficient to keep the load within the vehicle.
However - a lot of accidents are caused by load shift. The pallets/whatever within the vehicle suddenly move to one side during evasive action to miss some plonker cyclist - the pallets shift and the weight is caught by the load bearing curtains - that sudden transfer of weight has to go somewhere and the trailer starts to tip.
That is an exagerated scenario but does happen.
If the load was restrained to the vehicle - no load shift and no sudden transference of weight etc
Where loads shift you tend to see two end results. Box vans roll over, curtains spill the load onto the road.
N14ERF:
As a dgsa, i would take a very dim view of anybody using a wooden pallet on top of the bags as wood is a flammable substance. Obviously vosa/rha/fta have thought this through and not actually asked the people who actually do the job.
But isn’t it the people that actually do the job that AREN’T doing it - hence loads falling off wagons?
If the law continues to be enforced - or the EU decides we need to do it the German way then things will have to change. The manufacturers will need to package the goods in a different way, which will cost more, put the price up, nobody can afford it, sales drop, redundancies etc etc
From what i can work out, this kind of product needs a different kind of vehicle. Roping and sheeting would probably be the best load restraint for this - and there are load restraint systems that go inside a curtain sided trailer and effectively rope and sheet the load. Expensive though
Moose:
have a look on the CM site, fertilizer is another probem, the bods enforcing the rules dont know themselves!!!
you cant make it up they are seeking advice! from the RHA/FTA of all places! just look at the supid ideas, loose pallets on top of bags!!! to stop ratchet straps bursting bags ! what about nails,sharp, corners?
As a dgsa, i would take a very dim view of anybody using a wooden pallet on top of the bags as wood is a flammable substance. Obviously vosa/rha/fta have thought this through and not actually asked the people who actually do the job.
As a DGSA, how would you recommend securing big bags of a flammable material ?
I’ll grant you that wood is a flammable material also, but how does that make a fire situation worse ?
By the time a trailer is on fire and likely to cause a flammable load to start burning, some wooden pallets on top of those big bags is going to make the situation no worse than the wooden pallets underneath them, or the wooden floor.
A driver who is going to go to the trouble of using pallets on top, to help secure those bags is also going to check for protruding nails. It isn’t exactly rocket science.
Here is a wooden pallet, quickly glance over the top of it, does anything stick up? No! turn it over, slide it on top of the next big bag to position it, does anything catch in the tough nylon material weave? No! it’s good to go.
I’ve used pallets to spread the pressure from a strap across the width of a big bag. It works quite well. It also works well with pallets of stacked sacks of loose material.
When you stop for your next break, you need to re-tension your straps, but doing it once is all that’s needed. Granules and powder settle with vibration. A ■■■■■■■■ it’s own will become loose within 5 minutes of leaving the loading place. Stop to re-tension and 5 minutes later, they are loose again.
Once delivered, the securing pallets can then be sold to a pallet recycler.
…and who is providing you with all these pallets in the first place? Its alright expecting the shipper to cough up and give you them, but most wont, especially if loaded in a third party warehouse etc.
Moose:
have a look on the CM site, fertilizer is another probem, the bods enforcing the rules dont know themselves!!!
you cant make it up they are seeking advice! from the RHA/FTA of all places! just look at the supid ideas, loose pallets on top of bags!!! to stop ratchet straps bursting bags ! what about nails,sharp, corners?
As a dgsa, i would take a very dim view of anybody using a wooden pallet on top of the bags as wood is a flammable substance. Obviously vosa/rha/fta have thought this through and not actually asked the people who actually do the job.
As a DGSA, how would you recommend securing big bags of a flammable material ?
I’ll grant you that wood is a flammable material also, but how does that make a fire situation worse ?
By the time a trailer is on fire and likely to cause a flammable load to start burning, some wooden pallets on top of those big bags is going to make the situation no worse than the wooden pallets underneath them, or the wooden floor.
A driver who is going to go to the trouble of using pallets on top, to help secure those bags is also going to check for protruding nails. It isn’t exactly rocket science.
Here is a wooden pallet, quickly glance over the top of it, does anything stick up? No! turn it over, slide it on top of the next big bag to position it, does anything catch in the tough nylon material weave? No! it’s good to go.
I’ve used pallets to spread the pressure from a strap across the width of a big bag. It works quite well. It also works well with pallets of stacked sacks of loose material.
When you stop for your next break, you need to re-tension your straps, but doing it once is all that’s needed. Granules and powder settle with vibration. A ■■■■■■■■ it’s own will become loose within 5 minutes of leaving the loading place. Stop to re-tension and 5 minutes later, they are loose again.
Once delivered, the securing pallets can then be sold to a pallet recycler.
An oxidizing agent is not allowed to be carried with a flammable substance, pallets would only be allowed if the product had to be handled on them and big bags don’t.The big fert manufacturers don’t normally allow you to load with pallets on unless they can be segragated from the product.
The best way of holding it on was always to rope and sheet (lacing the bags first if really paranoid), you can still do this if you can prove the load rating of what your using is strong enough for what you’re carrying. In a curtainsider we are fitting nets with a load rating high enough to take the full load. Also using pallets on top does fall foul of most site hse rules where we load as they don’t want you on the load, and if you do they want you to walk on the sheet and not on the bags and loops.
As for my flat, i’m having a net made with 5 tonne straps built into it every2 metres to place over the sheet.
GasGas:
With steel the first thing they will look for is that it’s loaded to the headboard, and the headboard is in good condition.
The next thing they look for is that nothing is so high that it can overshoot the headboard and hit the cab.
Then they are looking for sufficient restraints, properly attached to the vehicle to stop the items from falling off. It’s not just a case of have the items moved, they will be looking for restraints that are strong enough and positioned correctly to stop it from moving.
so you will need to know the weight of the items you are carrying, and the rated strength of your straps and chains, and use you skill and judgement to position them properly.
the combined strength of the load restraint system must be sufficient to withstand a force not less than the total weight of the load forward, so as to prevent the load moving under severe braking, and half of the weight of the load backwards and sideways (see Fig 3). Vertical movement may occur but this should be overcome if the above conditions are met. This applies to all vehicles no matter what the size, from small vans to the largest goods vehicles. These principles are based on the maximum forces that are likely to be experienced during normal road use. Greater forces may be encountered if the vehicle, for example, is involved in an accident. The principles should therefore be regarded as minimum requirements.
Is this from an experience of getting stopped lately or what you would assume vosa are going to look for?
robinhood_1984:
…and who is providing you with all these pallets in the first place? Its alright expecting the shipper to cough up and give you them, but most wont, especially if loaded in a third party warehouse etc.
The pallets are not necessary, but they do make a nice little bonus if you can bum a set.
I think the original DGSA answer was specific to Fert. I was talking in General with big bags.
Happydaze:
What’s going to happen with sealed, unaccompanied trailers?
It is still down to the driver, If you cant watch it being loaded, you break the seal and check it is strapped or secure. I love those type of discussions with jumped up security people
Happydaze:
What’s going to happen with sealed, unaccompanied trailers?
It is still down to the driver, If you cant watch it being loaded, you break the seal and check it is strapped or secure. I love those type of discussions with jumped up security people
Sorry, I meant ones coming off boats and under CMR or TIR.
Happydaze:
What’s going to happen with sealed, unaccompanied trailers?
It is still down to the driver, If you cant watch it being loaded, you break the seal and check it is strapped or secure. I love those type of discussions with jumped up security people
What if there’s a genuine,unrecorded shortage though.You’ve admitted that you broke the seal therefore you will most likely be deemed to be guilty of causing the discrepancy. Complete or incomplete,but insecure-topples over and you,the driver, haven’t broken the seal to check. Difficult call I think.
Happydaze:
What’s going to happen with sealed, unaccompanied trailers?
It is still down to the driver, If you cant watch it being loaded, you break the seal and check it is strapped or secure. I love those type of discussions with jumped up security people
Sorry, I meant ones coming off boats and under CMR or TIR.
Same thing, break the seal or VOSA will break your bank. In general a TIR load will either have the same unit at the front or the carnet will have been discharged.
Unless it was a tank, fridge or container I would want to be looking inside at least.
Even the container with the 19 tonne crankshaft or the 2 lumps of granite needed some form of securing device
Happydaze:
What’s going to happen with sealed, unaccompanied trailers?
It is still down to the driver, If you cant watch it being loaded, you break the seal and check it is strapped or secure. I love those type of discussions with jumped up security people
What if there’s a genuine,unrecorded shortage though.You’ve admitted that you broke the seal therefore you will most likely be deemed to be guilty of causing the discrepancy. Complete or incomplete,but insecure-topples over and you,the driver, haven’t broken the seal to check. Difficult call I think.
If you are worried that may happen , just refuse the load until they take off the seal and check it with you.
Happydaze:
What’s going to happen with sealed, unaccompanied trailers?
It is still down to the driver, If you cant watch it being loaded, you break the seal and check it is strapped or secure. I love those type of discussions with jumped up security people
Sorry, I meant ones coming off boats and under CMR or TIR.
Same thing, break the seal or VOSA will break your bank. In general a TIR load will either have the same unit at the front or the carnet will have been discharged.
Unless it was a tank, fridge or container I would want to be looking inside at least.
Even the container with the 19 tonne crankshaft or the 2 lumps of granite needed some form of securing device
I can see some interesting conversations coming up for people who do that kind of traction…
Hi, I believe there have been £60 fixed penalties handed out to drivers, but I haven’t heard anything about penalty points being given. Securing and containing the load is the responsability of the driver and the company has to provide the kit for the job.
jackslad:
Hi all notices have gone up at our agg industries block plant about vosa and police handing out points for insecure loads,it says marshalls drivers have also recieved points,its supposedly a nationwide clampdown ,anybody any facts about this…
As far as I am aware - a container is the load. WHat is inside isn’t. Doesn’t really make sense but if you read the VOSA guidelines they aren’t interested in containers secured by twistlocks.
I am sure the container is the actual load (hence it doesn’t need top marker lights etc) And although the contents of a container can simply be rattling around inside … and be a danger to vehicle stability etc, it isn’t particularly on the VOSA hit list
i got stopped a few years back and got £60 fine and 3 pionts even though i had every 3rd row strapped.they had just done a guy with bulk bags who only had a rope cross over the back 2 bags.siad if i had roped or strapped every row they would of not touched me at all.this was at motherwell area as i got on the M74 after loading brick .said they was stopping every one now.no matter what excuse u came out with u still got a fine and points.
That would appear to be saying that a load of bricks, concrete or steel that is loaded with a gap of 30cm or greater from the headboard will attract a prohibition.
Fallmonk:
I was informed by another driver this effects ALL pallets ■■?
IF true this will cause chaos in RDC’s !
Altho from the letter above it looks like its just concrete based
The notice I have seen (only within one company mind) says it affects all goods, specifically curtainsiders. If you carry anything within a curtainsider and it isn’t secured VOSA are currently taking a dim view of it.
Even if it’s a pallet where the pallet itself weighs more than the load on it.
From what I was told once at a chat with a VOSA bod at a tea-coli van on a break once “we think of curtainsiders just like a flat bed, simply pretend the curtain isn’t there” and everyone’s favourite quip when it comes to c-siders “The curtains are not load bearing”
I have to say it’s fine with me, I’m a serial strapper, but some companies really really hate it when you take up their bay/yard for an extra 5 minutes while you strap it all up.
Better to ditch the curtainsider then and go back to roping and sheeting. That way when i’m loaded half high will be able to use roads with bridges that the taut can’t get under. Does’nt everything go full circle at some point!
