Carryfast:
I never drove a 13 speed 2800 only ZF 12 speed splitter which as I’ve said elsewhere I really liked while others seem to have disliked its unforgiving nature of either hot knife through butter, given decent matching, to totally missed graunched shift with no recovery of the situation possible .Followed by 9 speed Fuller in the ATI which again was perfect shift quality to my liking.
I don’t know how they could have made the 13 speed that bad by comparison.
Admittedly the Scania splitter which I drove in the 112 was relatively better than any of the Volvos I drove from F7 to F10 to FL10.But still not in the same league of shift quality or as nice to use as the the DAF ZF and Fuller boxes.
Also think the comfort and driving position of the F10 was overrated compared to the 2800 I even preferred the Foden S85 in that regard.In addition to that silly splitter control on the dash when at least even Foden put them all on the stick on its own in house box.
I’ll go with definitely overrated and they didn’t deserve the reputations they got mostly based on their badge not their content.
The opposite situation applying to the Brits.
As for the DAF 85/95 synchros and even 2300 ATI 16 speed definitely a case of exceptions proving rules if you’d have compared that with the awful DAF 2500 12 speed splitter or F7/10.
As for Mercs the need for the failed EPS experiment says it all.
Scania didn’t offer splitter 'boxes in the 2 series, it was either a 5- or 10 speed that was on offer. The 12 speed (3 over 3) splitter 'box was introduced when they launched the 3 series. No wonder you disliked the synchro 'boxes if you can’t tell the difference…
It was definitely Ryder rental, it was deffo 112, and it was deffo a 10 speed splitter not a range change.
I know that because we actually had the discussion elsewhere in that I didn’t even know that Scania also did a range change 10 speed because I’d only known the 10 speed splitter.While from memory others weren’t sure about a splitter version vice versa.
Shows what you know. 3 over 3 and splitter bs.You obviously weren’t even driving the vehicles being referred to in the day to know what’s being reffered to in that there were two versions of the 10 speed.Range change and/or splitter. archive.commercialmotor.com/arti … hifts-gear
Carryfast:
I never drove a 13 speed 2800 only ZF 12 speed splitter which as I’ve said elsewhere I really liked while others seem to have disliked its unforgiving nature of either hot knife through butter, given decent matching, to totally missed graunched shift with no recovery of the situation possible .Followed by 9 speed Fuller in the ATI which again was perfect shift quality to my liking.
I don’t know how they could have made the 13 speed that bad by comparison.
Admittedly the Scania splitter which I drove in the 112 was relatively better than any of the Volvos I drove from F7 to F10 to FL10.But still not in the same league of shift quality or as nice to use as the the DAF ZF and Fuller boxes.
Also think the comfort and driving position of the F10 was overrated compared to the 2800 I even preferred the Foden S85 in that regard.In addition to that silly splitter control on the dash when at least even Foden put them all on the stick on its own in house box.
I’ll go with definitely overrated and they didn’t deserve the reputations they got mostly based on their badge not their content.
The opposite situation applying to the Brits.
As for the DAF 85/95 synchros and even 2300 ATI 16 speed definitely a case of exceptions proving rules if you’d have compared that with the awful DAF 2500 12 speed splitter or F7/10.
As for Mercs the need for the failed EPS experiment says it all.
Scania didn’t offer splitter 'boxes in the 2 series, it was either a 5- or 10 speed that was on offer. The 12 speed (3 over 3) splitter 'box was introduced when they launched the 3 series. No wonder you disliked the synchro 'boxes if you can’t tell the difference…
It was definitely Ryder rental, it was deffo 112, and it was deffo a 10 speed splitter not a range change.
I know that because we actually had the discussion elsewhere in that I didn’t even know that Scania also did a range change 10 speed because I’d only known the 10 speed splitter.While from memory others weren’t sure about a splitter version vice versa.
Shows what you know. 3 over 3 and splitter bs.You obviously weren’t even driving the vehicles being referred to in the day to know what’s being reffered to in that there were two versions of the 10 speed.Range change and/or splitter. archive.commercialmotor.com/arti … hifts-gear
Carryfast,
It was not 100% a splitter gearbox, it was range change until you reached 7th gear and then it was a splitter, hard to explain but it gives a bit of info in the Commercial Motor article, I have only ever seen them on the 9 litre engine.
Carryfast:
I never drove a 13 speed 2800 only ZF 12 speed splitter which as I’ve said elsewhere I really liked while others seem to have disliked its unforgiving nature of either hot knife through butter, given decent matching, to totally missed graunched shift with no recovery of the situation possible .Followed by 9 speed Fuller in the ATI which again was perfect shift quality to my liking.
I don’t know how they could have made the 13 speed that bad by comparison.
Admittedly the Scania splitter which I drove in the 112 was relatively better than any of the Volvos I drove from F7 to F10 to FL10.But still not in the same league of shift quality or as nice to use as the the DAF ZF and Fuller boxes.
Also think the comfort and driving position of the F10 was overrated compared to the 2800 I even preferred the Foden S85 in that regard.In addition to that silly splitter control on the dash when at least even Foden put them all on the stick on its own in house box.
I’ll go with definitely overrated and they didn’t deserve the reputations they got mostly based on their badge not their content.
The opposite situation applying to the Brits.
As for the DAF 85/95 synchros and even 2300 ATI 16 speed definitely a case of exceptions proving rules if you’d have compared that with the awful DAF 2500 12 speed splitter or F7/10.
As for Mercs the need for the failed EPS experiment says it all.
Scania didn’t offer splitter 'boxes in the 2 series, it was either a 5- or 10 speed that was on offer. The 12 speed (3 over 3) splitter 'box was introduced when they launched the 3 series. No wonder you disliked the synchro 'boxes if you can’t tell the difference…
It was definitely Ryder rental, it was deffo 112, and it was deffo a 10 speed splitter not a range change.
I know that because we actually had the discussion elsewhere in that I didn’t even know that Scania also did a range change 10 speed because I’d only known the 10 speed splitter.While from memory others weren’t sure about a splitter version vice versa.
Shows what you know. 3 over 3 and splitter bs.You obviously weren’t even driving the vehicles being referred to in the day to know what’s being reffered to in that there were two versions of the 10 speed.Range change and/or splitter. archive.commercialmotor.com/arti … hifts-gear
Carryfast,
It was not 100% a splitter gearbox, it was range change until you reached 7th gear and then it was a splitter, hard to explain but it gives a bit of info in the Commercial Motor article, I have only ever seen them on the 9 litre engine.
Ta for the info Pete, and unlike some I stand to be corrected.
You say it was in a Ryder Rental CF, now such a gearbox seems not to be the daily bread and butter type, so what are the chances that type of gearbox was fitted in a rental unit? And for your information, the later introduced 12-speed 'box in the 3-series was of the 3 over 3 kind, same as was fitted in the F10/12 mkII range.
pete smith:
It was not 100% a splitter gearbox, it was range change until you reached 7th gear and then it was a splitter, hard to explain but it gives a bit of info in the Commercial Motor article, I have only ever seen them on the 9 litre engine.
pete smith:
Ta for the info Pete, and unlike some I stand to be corrected.
You say it was in a Ryder Rental CF, now such a gearbox seems not to be the daily bread and butter type, so what are the chances that type of gearbox was fitted in a rental unit? And for your information, the later introduced 12-speed 'box in the 3-series was of the 3 over 3 kind, same as was fitted in the F10/12 mkII range.
He’s wrong.Check out the shift pattern I posted.
It was still a simpler to use box than the even more stupid 10 speed range change.
It was no less bread and butter than the range change in that regard arguably more so.
It was a Ryder unit in Ryder livery and I drove it as my regular vehicle for around a year I was actually driving it on the night of the 1987 storm.Then they changed it for a 1628 Merc.
We’re not talking about a 3 over 3 + splitter.I also drove that in an FL10.
“The fourth gear ratio change, from 1.31:1 to 1.17:1, has the effect of widening the step between fourth and fifth main gears but this leads to the splitter model now being a genuine 10-speeder whereas fourth high and fifth low were so close on earlier models that the GS770 was effectively a nine-speed gearbox.”
Surely the reduction in the number would take fourth main gear closer to fifth?
“The fourth gear ratio change, from 1.31:1 to 1.17:1, has the effect of widening the step between fourth and fifth main gears but this leads to the splitter model now being a genuine 10-speeder whereas fourth high and fifth low were so close on earlier models that the GS770 was effectively a nine-speed gearbox.”
Surely the reduction in the number would take fourth main gear closer to fifth?
I had a scania 81 92 and 112 with that gearbox. used it like a 9 speed. 4th high and 5th low were nearly the same.
Not many 112s had that box. only the early p cab 112 with the 280 engine. when they uprated them to 305 they were only range change.
gingerfold:
I think that Carryfast has a fetish about gearboxes… among other things.
I just made the points that the Swedes were arguably overrated and their relatively naf transmissions being one of the main reasons.
Also a bit early in the day to make any market share conclusions v the other import options.With the home products rightly still being big players regardless at that point in time.
pete smith:
It was not 100% a splitter gearbox, it was range change until you reached 7th gear and then it was a splitter, hard to explain but it gives a bit of info in the Commercial Motor article, I have only ever seen them on the 9 litre engine.
Swedish stupidity? Remember well in a Truck roadtest the late great Pat Kennet giving the idea praise because once up to speed the most changes were done with one sweep of the arm, ie on the same gate. I’ll go with Pat on this and I did drive a P112 rental with this set up at BRS on cement, heavy work.
short walk:
Swedish stupidity? Remember well in a Truck roadtest the late great Pat Kennet giving the idea praise because once up to speed the most changes were done with one sweep of the arm, ie on the same gate. I’ll go with Pat on this and I did drive a P112 rental with this set up at BRS on cement, heavy work.
Which surely defeats the object of using a splitter.The one single movement of the arm ‘would’ have covered 4 gears two of which being pre selectable splits.
According to my records, Carryfast is right . Like CF I’m a bit of a gearbox obsessive when it comes to lorries - and proud of it. I used to drive Series 2 Scanias with the R cab, all of which had the range-change 10sp box. I also drove several P-cabbed 112s (P112M) artics, all of which had the 10-sp splitter version. Most of these were rental /lease units.
The Scania LB 110 used to suffer from persistent splitter problems, the 93 would have problems with 7th gear and there were issues with actually keeping the 82 gearbox attached to the vehicle IIRC. I remember changing quite a few water pumps and oil coolers.
Mr Carryfast you are correct concerning the GS771 box, I cannot honestly remember what it was despite driving a 3 series 93 tipper with one fitted for over a year! Spoke to a Scania fitter last night and he came across one fitted in a B reg 112 tractor unit, not a great success. trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewto … 8#p2295152
The above is a link from 2017 regarding this gearbox, Cheer’s Pete
For what it’s worth, and only my opinion, I was never that bothered about what type of gearbox was in a lorry, any decent driver would have it’s usage sussed out within half an hour of leaving the depot if he was new to the lorry and gearbox. I would never judge any lorry for being good, bad, or indifferent by the quality of its gearbox alone.
gingerfold:
For what it’s worth, and only my opinion, I was never that bothered about what type of gearbox was in a lorry, any decent driver would have it’s usage sussed out within half an hour of leaving the depot if he was new to the lorry and gearbox. I would never judge any lorry for being good, bad, or indifferent by the quality of its gearbox alone.
Yes, I agree with all of that. I used to pride myself on becoming as slick as possible with whatever new 'box was thrown at me, which is how I got interested in them! When I discuss gearboxes on here I’m careful to use the word ‘preference’ a lot, because, like most drivers, I had my preferred gearbox option (and my preferred engine option etc).
^^^^^^^^^^
And has been mentioned, the design and the correct or incorrect, set-up of the gear change linkage or mechanism made a huge difference to operation of the 'box.
Slightly off at a tangent, but relevant to gear change linkages, I once ran a Riley Two Point Six car and that had a right hand gear lever at the side of the driver’s seat. The linkage rods and levers to the gearbox had something like 10 joints IIRC, every one with pins that were well worn when I bought the car. Renewing all the pins made a huge difference to gear changing afterwards.
I’m guessing that the Continental trucks also had different gear linkages to their normal set up when produced with right hand drive, cross shafts etc were probably involved? I suppose that’s the benefit of a cable set up like Foden and others as it wouldn’t make any difference, although the gate would still be reversed with the low gears towards the driver of course. That never bothered me, I liked the Sed Ak ‘reversed change pattern’ and the early BMC J4 vans I occasionally drove were the same as the gearbox was what was also previously used with a column change.
The DAF’s in the mid seventies with the ZF six speed spiltter were a right PITA. The linkage was really stiff and the gear change pattern was in the opposite direction to most other vehicles. Tyneside
While we’re mired in EP90, how did that car 'box in the 1418 fare?
There’s another twist to the tale- in the GB market, Mercedes continued to offer the 1418 and 1924, well into the 1970s, while those vehicles’ V-engined successor was standard in Europe. That was a markedly different stance to the Swedes, who updated their ranges completely. Did Merc’s conservative approach harm it?
.Followed by 9 speed Fuller in the ATI which again was perfect shift quality to my liking.
. Like CF I’m a bit of a gearbox obsessive when it comes to lorries - and proud of it. I used to drive Series 2 Scanias with the R cab, all of which had the range-change 10sp box. I also drove several P-cabbed 112s (P112M) artics, all of which had the 10-sp splitter version. Most of these were rental /lease units.