Harry Monk:
Well, it only really works for the consignor if he has a non time sensitive load- e.g. any time in the next week is fine- and if the collecting driver is not in a hurry either. In the case of the company I sub-contract to, jobs will come on to the system late morning to be collected mid-afternoon and delivered to the consignee several hundred miles away the following morning. Therefore they need dedicated vehicles, rather than taking their chances on a haulage exchange site. There’s also the fact that I have been working for them for four years now and so I am a known quantity, whereas Bogdan off the internet could do anything with the movement which could prove problematic.
But how do you find loads to get back to your base? Do you have the same type of regular customer that gives you a return load soon after you deliver? I’d guess it’s almost impossible to find such a customer for every one of your outbound loads. Or, are you forced to use a freight exchange or a broker for return loads?
3 wheeler:
I have a meeting with my main customer soon and the suits want me to do a presentation. WTF, I’ve been working for them for 20 years.
All a presentation does is tell you that someone is good at making presentations, tells you nothing about a company. The old way, the customer used to have to know something about the job; now there’s a lot of people that have an MBA, and know nothing.
Albion,
Is this them expecting you to join their new young suits age, and if you cannot prove you can work in their world you are going to get the big DCM (don’t come Monday) as they have a fancy new logistic company lined up who treats them to corporate days out and has shiny new leased trucks …I do hope not !
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I go through this periodically. Trouble for them , is none of the usual rules apply to what we carry and they have to go away confused. It just gets a bit tedious after a while.
dimitri:
But how do you find loads to get back to your base? Do you have the same type of regular customer that gives you a return load soon after you deliver? I’d guess it’s almost impossible to find such a customer for every one of your outbound loads. Or, are you forced to use a freight exchange or a broker for return loads?
Personally?
I’m a subbie for Gregory Distribution. They find the loads, they have an office-full of people dedicated to it. I just phone when I’m empty and they give me my next job. I’m a bit like a glorified minicab driver.
The upside is that I get a continuous stream of work, the downside is that the rates aren’t anywhere near as much as much as I would want- having your own work in a niche market is the only way to make money in the transport industry nowadays- I did have some of my own exhibition work to start off with, but of course that has now gone the way of Stanislav and Pavel as has everything else.
I honestly do admire you for setting up a transport company in the present climate and I genuinely wish you the best of luck. But you have to understand that bargain-basement eastern European hauliers make further inroads into the British transport industry every single day. If the June referendum goes in favour of remaining in the eu then I will be putting my truck up for sale the very next day.
Harry Monk:
dimitri:
But how do you find loads to get back to your base? Do you have the same type of regular customer that gives you a return load soon after you deliver? I’d guess it’s almost impossible to find such a customer for every one of your outbound loads. Or, are you forced to use a freight exchange or a broker for return loads?
Personally?
I’m a subbie for Gregory Distribution. They find the loads, they have an office-full of people dedicated to it. I just phone when I’m empty and they give me my next job. I’m a bit like a glorified minicab driver.
The upside is that I get a continuous stream of work, the downside is that the rates aren’t anywhere near as much as much as I would want- having your own work in a niche market is the only way to make money in the transport industry nowadays- I did have some of my own exhibition work to start off with, but of course that has now gone the way of Stanislav and Pavel as has everything else.
I honestly do admire you for setting up a transport company in the present climate and I genuinely wish you the best of luck. But you have to understand that bargain-basement eastern European hauliers make further inroads into the British transport industry every single day. If the June referendum goes in favour of remaining in the eu then I will be putting my truck up for sale the very next day.
Harry, I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if they simply put your truck up on a freight exchange and wait for a someone to call them with a load offer or they would call loads advertised on a freight exchange to find a return load for your truck. That type of operation would still require “an office-full of people dedicated to it” as they say they have 500 trucks and 900 trailers. Even if they have direct relationships with consignors, it is much more efficient for them to book some or most of their loads and trucks through a freight exchange because it’s hard to match up the timing of deliveries and collections with their own trucks only. I’ve seen operations like theirs and I would describe them as a broker operating through freight exchanges. Sorry to be the one to say this. But in all likelihood you are working for a middleman who gets loads for you through a freight exchange but they also have some direct loads. And this is the general trend that I suspected from the beginning and this is why I started this topic.
I’ll leave Harry to explain how wrong your last post is, but point out he has already addressed why Gregorys don’t/won’t use a freight exchange. He’s been doing the job a long time and to infer that he doesn’t know how they operate is way off the mark.
dimitri:
I wonder if a transport company can survive and be profitable getting loads purely from online haulage exchanges. Does anyone use them to get loads? Which ones are good? I’ve also heard of “clearing houses” that supply loads, are they any good? How do I find them?
I want to start a transport company but the main problem (as always) is where to find customers. I’ve got everything else ready (capital to invest, CPC, etc) except a reliable and consistent source of loads. Perhaps anyone out there has the opposite problem and we could partner and help each other out… If you are a full time driver, no worries, I can do all the leg work.
I’ve gone back to your first quote because you appear to be tying yourself up in knots. No, you can’t manage to exist on a haulage exchange only. As I said, a clearing house is just an old school online exchange. If exchanges were going to take over the world, it would have happened before now. You really have to care little about your goods to let whomever take it away, which is why, as has been explained, companies prefer to deal with someone they know.
I don’t understand why you want to start a haulage company either when you seem to be shaky on some of the basics. Nor can I see that someone has the exact opposite problem to yours. If anyone does have a reliable and consistent source of loads, they aren’t going to have any problem finding someone to move them.
albion:
I’ll leave Harry to explain how wrong your last post is, but point out he has already addressed why Gregorys don’t/won’t use a freight exchange. […] No, you can’t manage to exist on a haulage exchange only. As I said, a clearing house is just an old school online exchange. […] You really have to care little about your goods to let whomever take it away, which is why, as has been explained, companies prefer to deal with someone they know. […] I don’t understand why you want to start a haulage company either when you seem to be shaky on some of the basics.
Would you say with a 100% certainty that if Harry is already moving his usual outbound load and, all of a sudden, the same customer needs another truck to transport the same load and they call Gregorys, that only one of two things would happen:
(1) Gregorys would alway have another available empty truck subcontracted directly to them in the vicinity of that customer?
(2) If not, then Gregorys would simply turn down the load?
I think not, I’m willing to bet that Gregorys would always accept that load, whether or not they have an empty subbie available in that area, and they would really do either:
(1) Call around to see who else has a truck available in that area (and thus act as a “clearing house” or as you put it “an old-school freight exchange”)
(2) Or they might go an easier route and post that load up on a freight exchange (and they will, of course, do some vetting of subcontractors willing to take that load).
I’m also aware that Gregorys would never admit that that is what they do. They will always maintain an aura of mystique about how they get their loads and trucks booked.
dimitri:
albion:
I’ll leave Harry to explain how wrong your last post is, but point out he has already addressed why Gregorys don’t/won’t use a freight exchange. […] No, you can’t manage to exist on a haulage exchange only. As I said, a clearing house is just an old school online exchange. […] You really have to care little about your goods to let whomever take it away, which is why, as has been explained, companies prefer to deal with someone they know. […] I don’t understand why you want to start a haulage company either when you seem to be shaky on some of the basics.
Would you say with a 100% certainty that if Harry is already moving his usual outbound load and, all of a sudden, the same customer needs another truck to transport the same load and they call Gregorys, that only one of two things would happen:
(1) Gregorys would alway have another available empty truck subcontracted directly to them in the vicinity of that customer?
(2) If not, then Gregorys would simply turn down the load?
I think not, I’m willing to bet that Gregorys would always accept that load, whether or not they have an empty subbie available in that area, and they would really do either:
(1) Call around to see who else has a truck available in that area (and thus act as a “clearing house” or as you put it “an old-school freight exchange”)
(2) Or they might go an easier route and post that load up on a freight exchange (and they will, of course, do some vetting of subcontractors willing to take that load).
I’m also aware that Gregorys would never admit that that is what they do. They will always maintain an aura of mystique about how they get their loads and trucks booked.
Instead of spending hours here debating on what you do not know…and arguing with sub contract drivers who know the ropes. Go and put some bloody effort into finding work for your new business . ITS NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO .
I hope you make millions …But I bet you are not still in business in two years if you ever get it off the ground.
I know if I had the money to re start I would do what Harry has done and buy a newer narrowboat and sail off to enjoy life.
dimitri:
They will always maintain an aura of mystique about how they get their loads and trucks booked.
Aura of mystique and Gregory’s in the same sentence. Who said Monday’s were a laugh free zone. 
albion:
dimitri:
They will always maintain an aura of mystique about how they get their loads and trucks booked.
Aura of mystique and Gregory’s in the same sentence. Who said Monday’s were a laugh free zone.
Like letting agents will never admit that all they really do is post your property on zoopla and gumtree. They will always tell you about their “extensive database” of renters etc. But if you ask them to use their database to find a renter and tell them that you’ll post your property on zoopla and gumtree yourself, they are not interested any more.
I’m going to leave you to argue with yourself. I’ve spent my entire life messing round with trucks, my business celebrated its 25th anniversary earlier this year, so what would I know shrugs
Let’s try it another way…
Can someone who runs a road transport company honestly say:
(1) What percentage of your loads comes from direct customers?
(2) What percentage of your revenue comes from direct customers?
(3) If 1 or 2 above is not 100%, then how and where do you get the rest of the loads?
By “direct customers” is mean the actual OWNER, SELLER, OR BUYER of the load, not a freight exchange, not an intermediary, not a freight broker, not a clearing house, not your next door transport company, not your mate who also runs a transport company, not a freight forwarder, not Gregorys, not anything else.
dimitri:
Let’s try it another way…
Can someone who runs a road transport company honestly say:
(1) What percentage of your loads comes from direct customers?
(2) What percentage of your revenue comes from direct customers?
(3) If 1 or 2 above is not 100%, then how and where do you get the rest of the loads?
By “direct customers” is mean the actual OWNER, SELLER, OR BUYER of the load, not a freight exchange, not an intermediary, not a freight broker, not a clearing house, not your next door transport company, not your mate who also runs a transport company, not a freight forwarder, not Gregorys, not anything else.
for me probably greater than 90%, worked for smaller companies/ individuals who’s goods/services were of huge importance to them, they wanted me to be a bit of an ambassador on their behalf making sure their customers were happy and everything was working and set up correctly. A bit of a pain if all you wanted to do was drive your truck, but it was that part of the service that allowed me to earn decent money and charge what I needed to charge. Once companies start to set there own prices then you are on a hiding to nothing,
The very best of luck with what you are trying to do, but if I were starting again I would definitely try to set up some service / angle where I could have some say in what I charged.
dimitri:
Let’s try it another way…
Can someone who runs a road transport company honestly say:
(1) What percentage of your loads comes from direct customers?
(2) What percentage of your revenue comes from direct customers?
(3) If 1 or 2 above is not 100%, then how and where do you get the rest of the loads?
By “direct customers” is mean the actual OWNER, SELLER, OR BUYER of the load, not a freight exchange, not an intermediary, not a freight broker, not a clearing house, not your next door transport company, not your mate who also runs a transport company, not a freight forwarder, not Gregorys, not anything else.
Well I can’t break it down exactly without wading through numbers, but about 90% comes directly from the manufacturer. 9.999% comes from a couple of freight forwarders that work in the very niche field that we work in - often working for our customer but with a customs element in it that we don’t do; they also do work for us. They don’t operate as a clearing house/freight exchange etc, simply because there’s only about 6 firms that are licensed to do what we do, so it really doesn’t work like that. The point 0.001% is taken up when we help out one of the other 4-5 firms if they have a problem, as they would us.
At no point do I touch a freight exchange/clearing house/intermediary/broker/next door transport company.
A few years back, I tried a freight exchange for a few months for return loads from France/Italy - bad payment, getting messed around, low rates, meant it was cheaper to bring them back empty.
The fact is most established hauliers will not use a freight exchange (or what used to be called clearing houses) . Most will have regular runs and realtionships directly with other hauliers that they have worked with for years. If you have enough outbound work to one area then sense will tell any company to source direct work from that area, even leading to opening a depot if needed. Any haulier I have ever worked for would only use an exchange if they had a one off load to somewhere they had rarely been to before and looking for something back.
I used to do a regular triangle Coil from Teesside to South Wales leaving Sunday, reload rebar South Wales through Cardiff Transport to Rainham Steel in Barking, reload Rainham Steel (our own customer) for Teesside. or via Gerry Adams in South Wales coated steel direct back to Teesside. We also found , tendered for and got our own contracts from South Wales that could take you anywhere, including concrete pipes, Galv steel (for lion Weld Teesside) if there was nothing we would run to Birmingham/West Mids where we had multiple steel contracts, all paying better than a back load no loads done at a back load rate or through an exchange.
A haulage exchange is for when you are completely stuck, never a business model
dimitri:
Let’s try it another way…
Can someone who runs a road transport company honestly say:
(1) What percentage of your loads comes from direct customers?
(2) What percentage of your revenue comes from direct customers?
(3) If 1 or 2 above is not 100%, then how and where do you get the rest of the loads?
By “direct customers” is mean the actual OWNER, SELLER, OR BUYER of the load, not a freight exchange, not an intermediary, not a freight broker, not a clearing house, not your next door transport company, not your mate who also runs a transport company, not a freight forwarder, not Gregorys, not anything else.
The definition of a sub contractor is generally working for an intermediary between the consignor and consignee.If you’re working directly for the shipper then you’re probably no longer a subby.
Which just leaves the differences in types of intermediaries.In which case as I said ‘clearance’ type operations probably wouldn’t even allow for the business model of just looking for a decent wage working as a self employed owner driver v employed.Not trying to create a profitable haulage operation/company with its own direct customer base.Which,with the loss of the international freight sector to the east euros,would probably now translate as mainly container work among a few other types of niche operations,which itself has been decimated by the switch from road to rail let alone if cabotage restrictions are lifted.
Carryfast:
Which just leaves the differences in types of intermediaries.In which case as I said ‘clearance’ type operations probably wouldn’t even allow for the business model of just looking for a decent wage working as a self employed owner driver v employed.Not trying to create a profitable haulage operation/company with its own direct customer base.Which,with the loss of the international freight sector to the east euros,would probably now translate as mainly container work among a few other types of niche operations,which itself has been decimated by the switch from road to rail let alone if cabotage restrictions are lifted.
do you have any figures for that ?
Office for Road & Rail show a fall in the ‘Rail freight lorry kilometres equivalent’ however I don’t know how much of the reduction is down simply to less coal being transported to power stations. It would be interesting to have a ‘container miles’ figure for road and rail.
personally I think getting more stuff on the rails makes sense, certainly environmental sense.
Bluey Circles:
Office for Road & Rail show a fall in the ‘Rail freight lorry kilometres equivalent’ however I don’t know how much of the reduction is down simply to less coal being transported to power stations. It would be interesting to have a ‘container miles’ figure for road and rail.
personally I think getting more stuff on the rails makes sense, certainly environmental sense.
The figures suggest around 30% increase in rail container traffic,maybe more by now and probably at the expense of road.Bearing in mind that switch would obviously have a disproportionate effect on the longer haul loads.IE more trucks spending more time looking for an ever decreasing amount of freight movements in terms of miles.
raildeliverygroup.com/files/ … ritain.pdf
While it depends on the definition of ‘environmental sense’ assuming that anyone is,or intends to start up as,an owner driver in the road transport sector and doesn’t believe in the bs global warmist agenda.
IE just another nail.Resulting in naive people like the OP thinking that the deliberately engineered problem,of an ever decreasing market share for the UK road transport sector,can be solved by relying on what’s left for it to haul at any price. 
I’m willing to make the following offer (almost no risk):
If you have an O’ licence, trucks and trailers available we can try to open an account on a freight exchange for a month or so. I will pay their fee. And I will try to make something work out of it. It’s got to work one way or the OPPOSITE way. I will tell you what loads I find there, but if you aren’t willing to take their loads because the rates are too low, that presumes that you work for someone who pays you more than the freight exchange rates, correct? Also, as many here say, they work direct for end users, so as a direct haulier you are probably allowed to subcontract loads you get from your customers. So let’s try to subcontract your surplus loads though a freight exchange. I will do all the work and if there’s money to be made we’ll discuss it once we see how and if it really works. If we subcontract some of your loads through a freight exchange, we of course will check who we are subcontracting them to - their references, Operator Compliance Risk Scores (OCRS), etc.
Basically, logically thinking, either “give” or “take” has to work. If you can’t take because the rates are too low, let’s give. If you are not giving or taking now because you are probably too busy with your existing day-to-day operations, I’m offering my temporary services for free to see if there’s any profit to be made there.
If you are interested, send me a private message and we’ll talk about it in more details.
peirre:
I’m out …
Bit fast there peirre, door caught me as I dashed to the exit. Seems someone wants to 're-invent the wheel.
As I said, there’s only 5-6 companies that do what I do, there’s licenses up to the eyeballs, vehicle adaptations and driver training etc. Not a freight exchange, subbie kind of thing.