Harry Monk:
Carryfast:
Meanwhile, any British truck driver who still fancies having a job in five years time would do well to consider voting “out” in the upcoming referendum.
Spot on Harry. 
Carryfast:
Harry Monk:
The biggest threat to my business model will come when cabotage restrictions are completely removed, in fact that will kill off the entire British transport industry.Look on the bright side if Turkey gets in it might take out the East Euro road transport industry too.
I don’t think Turkey will ever get in. They will have to give up [their] half of Cyprus otherwise they will always be vetoed by Greece and Cyprus.
dimitri:
Carryfast:
Feel free to explain why,as a non member,we’d need to provide the EU ( effectively East Euro and possibly Turkey in this case ) with a better deal in that regard than the US provides Mexico or Canada even as part of NAFTA.I’d say because the UK and EU are integrated much closer than the US/Mexico/Canada with NAFTA. So a more accurate comparison would be New York state and the rest of the US. Or California and the rest of the US. If, say New York or California decided to separate from the US.
So if we stay in obviously a State of a Federal Europe which dodgy Dave says is no longer supposedly on the table at least in our case.Bearing in mind that US Federal Government also means a Federal minimum wage and fuel taxation regime.Great keep digging. 
While if we leave the EU then,like Switzerland,your Federal analogy obviously collapses because you’re comparing Canadian type apples with Californian type oranges. 
dimitri:
Carryfast:
Harry Monk:
The biggest threat to my business model will come when cabotage restrictions are completely removed, in fact that will kill off the entire British transport industry.Look on the bright side if Turkey gets in it might take out the East Euro road transport industry too.
I don’t think Turkey will ever get in. They will have to give up [their] half of Cyprus otherwise they will always be vetoed by Greece and Cyprus.
That’s what Dolph says too.However Merkel obviously doesn’t agree and what ze Germans and US wants the Germans and US usually get in the case of the EU. 
dimitri:
I don’t think Turkey will ever get in. They will have to give up [their] half of Cyprus otherwise they will always be vetoed by Greece and Cyprus.
Turkey will get in, as will Ukraine afterwards, both have enormous strategic value in the eu’s position on Russia.
Cue WW3 !
Carryfast:
So if we stay in obviously a State of a Federal Europe which dodgy Dave says is no longer supposedly on the table at least in our case.Great keep digging.While if we leave the EU then,like Switzerland,your Federal analogy obviously collapses because you’re comparing Canadian type apples with Californian type oranges.
My main point was that if we leave the EU, I don’t think it will help the transport businesses that much. Because, for example, there are many local businesses that don’t have to compete with their Eastern European counterparts (because they are very local by nature, like high-street shops). But do you think running those businesses is any easier than running a transport company? I don’t think so, otherwise all of us would’ve opened a shop on high street.
Harry Monk:
dimitri:
I don’t think Turkey will ever get in. They will have to give up [their] half of Cyprus otherwise they will always be vetoed by Greece and Cyprus.Turkey will get in, as will Ukraine afterwards, both have enormous strategic value in the eu’s position on Russia.
At which point I’d guess that Putin would probably go for WW3 but what would America care so long as the resulting fight is kept within Europe.
dimitri:
My main point was that if we leave the EU, I don’t think it will help the transport businesses that much. Because, for example, there are many local businesses that don’t have to compete with their Eastern European counterparts (because they are very local by nature, like high-street shops). But do you think running those businesses is any easier than running a transport company? I don’t think so, otherwise all of us would’ve opened a shop on high street.
So you’re saying that a large proportion of the UK road transport industry can all fall back on the local distribution sector and afford to give up the rest.The inconvenient fact is Harry is doing the job and doesn’t agree with you.IE the question is can what remains of the domestic industry survive,going by the example of the international fleet when exposed to the same race to the bottom competition.As I’ve said the analogy is similar to that of the US opening up it’s domestic transport market to Mexico and Canada.In this case more Mexico.
Can anyone remind me of the answer to ‘Do company’s use haulage exchanges to get loads’ ? ? ? ?
raymundo:
Can anyone remind me of the answer to ‘Do company’s use haulage exchanges to get loads’ ? ? ? ?
I think we did that to death and then moved on. 
raymundo:
Can anyone remind me of the answer to ‘Do company’s use haulage exchanges to get loads’ ? ? ? ?
Probably more companies get loads from haulage exchanges than are willing to admit.
dimitri:
Probably more companies get loads from haulage exchanges than are willing to admit.
If you want to run your business entirely on work obtained from internet haulage exchanges, then go ahead. We’ve tried to give you advice, if you won’t take it then that’s your funeral and none of us will be remotely bothered when you go bust. I’m surprised that the mathematics of costing work wasn’t covered when you did your Operator’s CPC.
Harry Monk:
dimitri:
Probably more companies get loads from haulage exchanges than are willing to admit.If you want to run your business entirely on work obtained from internet haulage exchanges, then go ahead. We’ve tried to give you advice, if you won’t take it then that’s your funeral and none of us will be remotely bothered when you go bust. I’m surprised that the mathematics of costing work wasn’t covered when you did your Operator’s CPC.
Well put Mr Monk…making money is difficult , and making PROPER money is nigh on impossible . You have to run direct for an end user to stand any chance.
Harry Monk:
dimitri:
Probably more companies get loads from haulage exchanges than are willing to admit.If you want to run your business entirely on work obtained from internet haulage exchanges, then go ahead. We’ve tried to give you advice, if you won’t take it then that’s your funeral and none of us will be remotely bothered when you go bust. I’m surprised that the mathematics of costing work wasn’t covered when you did your Operator’s CPC.
Mr. Monk, I’m not arguing with you, you are 100% correct. However, somebody must be taking those low paying loads from haulage exchanges. And the mathematics were covered in CPC and that’s one reason why I’m asking these questions – because something doesn’t add up. In order to work 100% for the end user, you need to build a chain of end users that will bring you back to your base every time and then you need to time all those loads (or at least 2 loads - outbound and return) so that you collect the next one soon after you deliver the previous one. How is that possible? Otherwise you’d only have “good” outbound loads from your base and have to take whatever you can find to get back to the base - presumably that’s when you’ll use a haulage exchange or something similar. But then there will be another driver who delivered his outbound load near your base and he’d be willing to take “your” high paying load for less money to get back to his base. So it’s just a matter of time before your high paying load from your end user will go to another driver as his “return” load that he’d be willing to take for less. So how can I spend time and efforts on finding end users knowing that sooner or later (and probably sooner) the end user will realise that they can move their load for 20% less through a haulage exchange. So what am I missing here?
dimitri:
So what am I missing here?
Probably numerous variables like customer operational requirements and the fact that putting the job in the hands of middle men along the line doesn’t necessarily mean cheaper for the customer but just less money for the sub contract haulage operator and subsidising the freight broker’s profit margin.On that note the general way in for new start owner driver operators,( would have been ),doing traction work directly for one or more of the big forwarders like Ferrymasters,Davies Turner or Danzas etc etc etc.Not taking what you can get from some obscure freight broker who’ll probably expect a trailer provided at a lower rate than the above traction only examples.As for now it’s all descended into race to the bottom anarchy of cheap East Euro competition which just leaves the few niches based on the above mentioned ‘operational requirements’ and customers wishing to avoid subsidising freight brokers’ profits.In which case,as Harry says,the lifting of cabotage restrictions would probably be the final nail in that regard.
dimitri:
But then there will be another driver who delivered his outbound load near your base and he’d be willing to take “your” high paying load for less money to get back to his base. So it’s just a matter of time before your high paying load from your end user will go to another driver as his “return” load that he’d be willing to take for less. So how can I spend time and efforts on finding end users knowing that sooner or later (and probably sooner) the end user will realise that they can move their load for 20% less through a haulage exchange. So what am I missing here?
Well, it only really works for the consignor if he has a non time sensitive load- e.g. any time in the next week is fine- and if the collecting driver is not in a hurry either. In the case of the company I sub-contract to, jobs will come on to the system late morning to be collected mid-afternoon and delivered to the consignee several hundred miles away the following morning. Therefore they need dedicated vehicles, rather than taking their chances on a haulage exchange site. There’s also the fact that I have been working for them for four years now and so I am a known quantity, whereas Bogdan off the internet could do anything with the movement which could prove problematic.
So what am I missing here?
[/quote]
You are missing about 30 yrs…as back then the “system” worked and we all made profit.
Nowadays middle men with all sorts of names take a cut, the Internet and technology has driven prices down to crazy levels. You need to put on a suit and very eloquently talk to prospective customers and tell them how good you are how adaptable you are and be so very very efficient , and then appear with new tidy vehicles and do the job for less than competition can…and after a period of time you can hopefully negotiate better rates.
AND IT PROBABLY WONT WORK. But good luck .
It’s taken Harry years to get their trust and prove himself to customers who know him.
Self employed drivers and small companies fail at a rate that is huge in their first few months and years now.
Go drive for someone bigger and established who pays well would be my advice.
3 wheeler:
So what am I missing here?
You are missing about 30 yrs…as back then the “system” worked and we all made profit.
Nowadays middle men with all sorts of names take a cut, the Internet and technology has driven prices down to crazy levels. You need to put on a suit and very eloquently talk to prospective customers and tell them how good you are how adaptable you are and be so very very efficient , and then appear with new tidy vehicles and do the job for less than competition can…and after a period of time you can hopefully negotiate better rates.
[/quote]
Lot of truth in that.
I have a meeting with my main customer soon and the suits want me to do a presentation. WTF, I’ve been working for them for 20 years.
All a presentation does is tell you that someone is good at making presentations, tells you nothing about a company. The old way, the customer used to have to know something about the job; now there’s a lot of people that have an MBA, and know nothing.
I have a meeting with my main customer soon and the suits want me to do a presentation. WTF, I’ve been working for them for 20 years.
All a presentation does is tell you that someone is good at making presentations, tells you nothing about a company. The old way, the customer used to have to know something about the job; now there’s a lot of people that have an MBA, and know nothing.
[/quote]
Albion,
Is this them expecting you to join their new young suits age, and if you cannot prove you can work in their world you are going to get the big DCM (don’t come Monday) as they have a fancy new logistic company lined up who treats them to corporate days out and has shiny new leased trucks …I do hope not !