As an agency driver I would support a haulage strike. Nothing will ever change without people getting together with a common goal.
Why is it ok for the French lorry drivers to strike for what they want, they went on strike for a 48 hr week and an increase in wages and a retirement age of 55 in 1997, which I think they got.
Even now they are at it, for a 10 euro minimum per hour, http://www.demotix.com/photo/6702014/french-truck-drivers-strike-blocks-lyon-harbour you must be delusional if you don’t think action would be good for our industry.
sweepster:
Who’s mad enough to work 15 hour’s?
Plenty people mate, plenty. Someone wrote on here recently that their contract states that they must work to tachograph legislation. Basically, 15s and 13s. Maxed out hours every week. Not sure what he earns for said hours as he didn’t say.
Unfortunately some drivers think they’re getting a good wage if they’re getting £500 per week regardless of what they have to do for it.
Truck driving is a job involving long hours, we all know that. So lets make sure we’re properly compensated for these hours and/or restrict the amount of days we can drive instead of working hours more akin to Victorian times.
I read an article by the Department for Education recently about the hours worked by teachers. The real hours as opposed to the hours people imagine they work, 9am -3:30pm. It stated that they’re working close to 60 hours per week, it’s ruining their family lives and that this must stop.
You can bet we’ll never be afforded the same sympathy from anyone in government.
Terry T:
Carryfast:
If I’ve read it right the idea is a max 48 hour week ‘limit’.Which is obviously an unviable ask if we want the road transport industry to survive.It’s a tricky situation. The problem is the obsession with the 5 day working week. Some runs cannot be done in less than 10 hours which is what would be necessary for a 48 hour average for a 5 day week. I know for a fact that we have runs which are impossible to do in less than 11 hours and throw in a few (inevitable) queues on the M25 and you’re looking at 12-13 hours.
But times that by 5 and you’re working up to 65 hours per week. Over 1.5 times more than a factory worker. And some are dumb enough to do this for a flat rate of less than £10 pr hour. In some cases far less.
If some shifts take 12-13 hours to complete (and some do) then lets restrict the amount of days they can be done. That leaves 3 other days for another driver to do the rest. Who knows, might even create jobs. Instead of hero drivers working 80 hours per week doing the work of 2 people just to pay the bills.
The original idea of a 48 hr week was just that, a max week of 48 hour, no POA to increase the working week to a level that has never changed, what good has the Road Transport (working time) regulations been for drivers? absolutly nothing, before it came in I could be on duty for 84 hrs, after it came in I can still be on duty for 84 hrs.
Quite a few firms started trialing 4 on 4 off with 12 hour shifts before it came in, which would have been the way to go.
Dont know why the haulage industry wouldn’t survive if we were on a 48 hour duty week, it’s not like it would just disapear overnight is it.
weeto:
The original idea of a 48 hr week was just that, a max week of 48 hour, no POA to increase the working week to a level that has never changed, what good has the Road Transport (working time) regulations been for drivers? absolutly nothing, before it came in I could be on duty for 84 hrs, after it came in I can still be on duty for 84 hrs.
Quite a few firms started trialing 4 on 4 off with 12 hour shifts before it came in, which would have been the way to go.
Dont know why the haulage industry wouldn’t survive if we were on a 48 hour duty week, it’s not like it would just disapear overnight is it.
4 on 4 off 12 hour shifts is something I could live with. In fact, it’s what I’m looking for at the moment. Just have to find the right place.
Our places runs a 24/7 operation yet instead of putting a load of drivers on 4 on 4 off we have drivers doing any 5 from 7 or 5 one week 6 the next.
This is and always will be the attitude of most british truck driver, and this quote was from 1998 whilst the french were striking for a shorter (48 hr) week. BBC News | UK | Truckers hit by French blockade
Mr Bishop, who is travelling to the Spanish city of Barcelona for Kent company European Freightlink, said: "I think we all had sympathy with them when they protested about their wages but their argument this time about long working hours isn’t as strong.
“You have to put the hours in to get the job done.”
Nothing has changed!!!
sweepster:
Who’s mad enough to work 15 hour’s?.
Me ocassionally when im offered £16-19 ph
People cant moan about low wages then accept most of the jobs said on here. Always threads about jobs offering min wage an people saying i need it for family or whatever. Untill people dont accept the jobs it will be paid.
Thats why i like agency, same job loads more pay if i need time off no problem if get stick in the job or conditions are rubbish i go. Plus im on a garanteed income so if no work i still over £450 a week.
Carryfast:
stevieboy308:
Carryfast:
Assuming that you’re in agreement that undercutting wages has a bad effect on the economy then firstly it would be a contradiction to then suggest that ‘individual’ companies don’t all have their ‘individual’ part to play in that or that the effect in question on the economy as a whole certainly obviously affects business for everyone.how do you come to the conclusion there’s a contradiction in what i wrote?
If I read it right firstly you were making the case that any agreement which creates a system of inter company rate setting/pricing,in order to avoid the undercutting of wages is the same thing as a cartel
.When as I’ve said such an agreement is more or less exactly what the old 1964 master freight agreement in the states was all about.
weeto said firms are at fault for not sticking together, i asked him if he wanted a cartel
weeto:
Like drivers, the vehicle owners won’t stick together to get a good deal for the whole industry, they are as much to blame for the situation its in as us as drivers are.
Rate cutting to get a poorly paid contract doesn’t help anyone.
Carryfast:
You also seemed to be making the case that all companies wouldn’t have their individual responsibility in implementing such an agreement and/or benefit from it.
i said individual companies don’t have a responsibility to the economy, they don’t. if one company decided to implement a massive pay rise for the good of the economy, it’s unlikely they’d see an increase in business.
stevieboy308:
again, i never said efficiency based on undercutting wages! i agree that has a bad effect on the economy, but an individual company doesn’t have a responsibility to the economy and it would be highly unlikely if they would see an increase their business as a result.
Carryfast:
You then ( correctly ) seemed to be saying that the undercutting of wages between individual companies is bad for the economy.
no you said that, i agreed with it
stevieboy308:
Carryfast:
As I said any type of ‘efficiency’ that is based on under cutting wages is not a real ‘efficiency’ at all because it actually just damages the economy as a whole.again, i never said efficiency based on undercutting wages! i agree that has a bad effect on the economy,
i’m not seeing the contradiction
please stop seeing what isn’t there and putting twists on what people say 
stevieboy308:
Carryfast:
stevieboy308:
Carryfast:
Assuming that you’re in agreement that undercutting wages has a bad effect on the economy then firstly it would be a contradiction to then suggest that ‘individual’ companies don’t all have their ‘individual’ part to play in that or that the effect in question on the economy as a whole certainly obviously affects business for everyone.how do you come to the conclusion there’s a contradiction in what i wrote?
If I read it right firstly you were making the case that any agreement which creates a system of inter company rate setting/pricing,in order to avoid the undercutting of wages is the same thing as a cartel
weeto said firms are at fault for not sticking together, i asked him if he wanted a cartel
weeto:
Like drivers, the vehicle owners won’t stick together to get a good deal for the whole industry, they are as much to blame for the situation its in as us as drivers are.
Rate cutting to get a poorly paid contract doesn’t help anyone.Carryfast:
You also seemed to be making the case that all companies wouldn’t have their individual responsibility in implementing such an agreement and/or benefit from it.i said individual companies don’t have a responsibility to the economy, they don’t. if one company decided to implement a massive pay rise for the good of the economy, it’s unlikely they’d see an increase in business.
stevieboy308:
again, i never said efficiency based on undercutting wages! i agree that has a bad effect on the economy, but an individual company doesn’t have a responsibility to the economy and it would be highly unlikely if they would see an increase their business as a result.Carryfast:
You then ( correctly ) seemed to be saying that the undercutting of wages between individual companies is bad for the economy.no you said that, i agreed with it
stevieboy308:
Carryfast:
As I said any type of ‘efficiency’ that is based on under cutting wages is not a real ‘efficiency’ at all because it actually just damages the economy as a whole.again, i never said efficiency based on undercutting wages! i agree that has a bad effect on the economy,
i’m not seeing the contradiction
please stop seeing what isn’t there and putting twists on what people say
Why does haulage companies sticking together = a cartel, why are you qouting 2 seperate sentences??
weeto:
Why does haulage companies sticking together = a cartel, why are you qouting 2 seperate sentences??
i’m quoting 2 separate sentences because carryfast is being carryfast seeing things that are not there and twisting things, i was clarifying who said what to who.
you basically said, firms should stick together, i asked if you wanted a cartel? never did get an answer!
i think it’s a valid question given what you said. maybe you could clarify what you mean by sticking together.
if firms agree with each other to fix prices, then is that not a cartel? and not legal in this country
There’s 2 kinds of price fixing though.
The Apple kind where they fix the price of E-Books so they can rip their customers off. Or the kind being suggested here where companies can’t steal contracts off each other by cutting their employees wages thus requiring those employees to work silly hours to earn a living.
This would of course, ultimately, come from the pockets of consumers who buy the stuff we deliver but so what. Why should we suffer so they can get cheap stuff.
If minimum pricing per mile or whatever was brought in then the only way to steal contracts then would be on service. We constantly lose contracts based on price only for them to return when their service level isn’t what we can offer them.
jonny b:
UNBELIEVABLE. I read this forum most days and its full of people moaning about the number of hours you have to work to make ends meet and the low hourly rates. Here’s a union I am proud to be a member of fighting for your rights. If you all got behind this and maybe just maybe you may make a real difference.
LOL, Pipedreams mate. Typical union drivel, maybe in the perfect world but that does not exist, and who is going to pay for all this and please do not say the company’s, because Transport has always had to work on a shoe string with small profits margins set against high expenses.
And please again do not mention unions, always have been a waste of space more concerned with there own extremely high levels of pay and pension FACT. And how do they propose we fund there pipe dreams, again who is going to pay. These men live in a world looking through rose coloured glasses.
The real facts are that the only way to increase profits, leading to increased wages is to vastly increase rates, and that means Joe public having to pay more in the shops ect ect, and that just will not happen, regardless of what unions would have believe now and in the past, its not the company`s that employ you that hold back wages, it is purely economical conditions, and unfortunately Transport has always been at the bottom of the list, that is not just here in the UK, but world wide.
And if you do not believe that, then just remember how many Transport firms have gone by the way over the years, simple to work out, to little profit not enough to keep up with running costs and so we end up with the demise of another transport company.
Yes we would all love to earn more for less, but that is just a pipe dream.
stevieboy308:
weeto:
Why does haulage companies sticking together = a cartel, why are you qouting 2 seperate sentences??i’m quoting 2 separate sentences because carryfast is being carryfast
you basically said, firms should stick together, i asked if you wanted a cartel? never did get an answer!
i think it’s a valid question given what you said. maybe you could clarify what you mean by sticking together.
if firms agree with each other to fix prices, then is that not a cartel? and not legal in this country
Sticking together during the 2000 fuel protests would of been a good start, but as usual it was left to a minority, and nothing was gained out of it, it was an ideal situation to get a decent fuel rebate for the road haulage industry!
Hi Weeto, I can understand your sentiments, but unfortunately the world does not work along those lines, even more so the Transport Industry.
I have been involved in Transport since 1968, and over all of those years I have seen and heard it all, that does not mean I know it all !far from it, but believe me I have worked through every Government. Times when Unions held sway, and every other conceivable combination that you can think of.
And a real honest answer is in that time the Transport Industry has all ways worked on an individual basis ! with each company offering its best to the customer at the rates that it hoped would get the work and turn a profit.
The proof of the pudding being when company’s amalgamated, you would still get different rates for the same job from both company’s.
So I cannot see things ever changing as company`s chase work offering the lowest rates, The outcome being your wages have to come out of a small profit margin, and so will not increase.
weeto:
stevieboy308:
weeto:
Why does haulage companies sticking together = a cartel, why are you qouting 2 seperate sentences??i’m quoting 2 separate sentences because carryfast is being carryfast
you basically said, firms should stick together, i asked if you wanted a cartel? never did get an answer!
i think it’s a valid question given what you said. maybe you could clarify what you mean by sticking together.
if firms agree with each other to fix prices, then is that not a cartel? and not legal in this country
Sticking together during the 2000 fuel protests would of been a good start, but as usual it was left to a minority, and nothing was gained out of it, it was an ideal situation to get a decent fuel rebate for the road haulage industry!
do you think a reduction in fuel price / tax would make much difference? i don’t
yoyo5:
Hi Weeto, I can understand your sentiments, but unfortunately the world does not work along those lines, even more so the Transport Industry.
I have been involved in Transport since 1968, and over all of those years I have seen and heard it all, that does not mean I know it all !far from it, but believe me I have worked through every Government. Times when Unions held sway, and every other conceivable combination that you can think of.
And a real honest answer is in that time the Transport Industry has all ways worked on an individual basis ! with each company offering its best to the customer at the rates that it hoped would get the work and turn a profit.
The proof of the pudding being when company’s amalgamated, you would still get different rates for the same job from both company’s.
So I cannot see things ever changing as company`s chase work offering the lowest rates, The outcome being your wages have to come out of a small profit margin, and so will not increase.
the market sets the driver wages, if enough people left driving to do something else, then wages would rise until enough people were driving again, small changes will have little effect on haulier rates, but bigger wage increases will force rates up
what’s that saying ■■?
one for all and all for one ■■?
ball hooks,
its every man for himself now…
we can all dream,
oh yes, I’ve been an agency driver for 13 years…
stevieboy308:
weeto:
Why does haulage companies sticking together = a cartel, why are you qouting 2 seperate sentences??i’m quoting 2 separate sentences because carryfast is being carryfast
you basically said, firms should stick together, i asked if you wanted a cartel? never did get an answer!
i think it’s a valid question given what you said. maybe you could clarify what you mean by sticking together.
if firms agree with each other to fix prices, then is that not a cartel? and not legal in this country
If the transport unions agree and impose what is effectively a trade specific minimum wage in this case that is no more a cartel than the national minimum wage.The only difference is that it would be a realistic minimum.As opposed to the unrealistic one which the government have set up based on the usual cheap labour agenda of the CBI.All of which by implication means that haulage rates at least have to be harmonised to reflect that minimum wage.
Terry T:
weeto:
The original idea of a 48 hr week was just that, a max week of 48 hour, no POA to increase the working week to a level that has never changed, what good has the Road Transport (working time) regulations been for drivers? absolutly nothing, before it came in I could be on duty for 84 hrs, after it came in I can still be on duty for 84 hrs.
Quite a few firms started trialing 4 on 4 off with 12 hour shifts before it came in, which would have been the way to go.
Dont know why the haulage industry wouldn’t survive if we were on a 48 hour duty week, it’s not like it would just disapear overnight is it.4 on 4 off 12 hour shifts is something I could live with. In fact, it’s what I’m looking for at the moment. Just have to find the right place.
Our places runs a 24/7 operation yet instead of putting a load of drivers on 4 on 4 off we have drivers doing any 5 from 7 or 5 one week 6 the next.
4 on 4 off shifts are the only realistic way that a 48 hour max week would work.However that wouldn’t work in the case of many/most tramping operations.The result then being that many of those operations which might work on a 4 on 4 off rota basis would then obviously lose work to a more labour cost friendly tramping type operation.
The fact is road transport won’t realistically work with anything less than a 12 hour max day.In this case a 12 hour max being a great improvement on the bs EU hours regime.
Which together with EU and LabLibdemCon policy,regarding the global warmist cause which effectively means taking trucks off the road in favour of trains and the free movement of cheap labour,is obviously a conflict of interest.Between the TUC/Labour Party supposedly looking after the interests of those who work in the road transport industry and their pro EU,pro rail,anti road agenda.
stevieboy308:
weeto:
stevieboy308:
weeto:
Why does haulage companies sticking together = a cartel, why are you qouting 2 seperate sentences??i’m quoting 2 separate sentences because carryfast is being carryfast
you basically said, firms should stick together, i asked if you wanted a cartel? never did get an answer!
i think it’s a valid question given what you said. maybe you could clarify what you mean by sticking together.
if firms agree with each other to fix prices, then is that not a cartel? and not legal in this country
Sticking together during the 2000 fuel protests would of been a good start, but as usual it was left to a minority, and nothing was gained out of it, it was an ideal situation to get a decent fuel rebate for the road haulage industry!
do you think a reduction in fuel price / tax would make much difference? i don’t
Bearing in mind the average haulage operation’s balance sheet and how much money is left for wages after the government has ripped off the industry for a massive amount of its revenues in the form of fuel tax.Added to which the unions get their act together in going for a decent minimum wage in the industry,which you obviously don’t agree with,yes the ability to run trucks on red diesel would make a massive game changing difference in that regard.But of course that would then upset the RMT and their cronies in the Labour Party. 
