nick2008:
yet another union spawling a crock of horse dung funny that this was what they were saying Years ago and what happened ■■?
Naff all
So you think unite fail its members?, history shows it doesnt fail the members who are prepared to strike to get whats right, we as drivers are the only ones that are to blame for the state of this industry not the unions.
So what happens with Drivers do strike and try to stand up for themselves? The bosses just get the agency mob in to carry on. If all the drivers at my place decided to strike, within an hour agencies drivers would in drafted in and rolling out.
Really? if drivers stuck together there wouldnt be any agency drivers to draft in would there, they would be out on strike with you!!!
Doubt it. There are alot of agency bods would are chomping at the bit to get work. If they got the offer of two weeks of solid work, most would bite your hand off!
Do you think there would be same amount of agency drivers about if full time employed drivers were being payed what they are worth along with improved working conditions?
Obviously in terms of numbers,which is what sets the wage rates,yes.To get wages up you need to increase demand for labour while hopefully reducing supply.You won’t do either of those in an environment where government ( union supported ) policy is to get more trucks off the road while at the same time importing more cheap east euro labour.
nick2008:
yet another union spawling a crock of horse dung funny that this was what they were saying Years ago and what happened ■■?
Naff all
So you think unite fail its members?, history shows it doesnt fail the members who are prepared to strike to get whats right, we as drivers are the only ones that are to blame for the state of this industry not the unions.
So what happens with Drivers do strike and try to stand up for themselves? The bosses just get the agency mob in to carry on. If all the drivers at my place decided to strike, within an hour agencies drivers would in drafted in and rolling out.
Really? if drivers stuck together there wouldnt be any agency drivers to draft in would there, they would be out on strike with you!!!
Doubt it. There are alot of agency bods would are chomping at the bit to get work. If they got the offer of two weeks of solid work, most would bite your hand off!
Do you think there would be same amount of agency drivers about if full time employed drivers were being payed what they are worth along with improved working conditions?
Obviously in terms of numbers,which is what sets the wage rates,yes.To get wages up you need to increase demand for labour while hopefully reducing supply.You won’t do either of those in an environment where government ( union supported ) policy is to get more trucks off the road while at the same time importing more cheap east euro labour.
Is there any evidence “cheap” east euro drivers are earning less than a uk national in road haulage?
What actually sets the wage rate is what PPM the truck owner can get for his services.
nick2008:
yet another union spawling a crock of horse dung funny that this was what they were saying Years ago and what happened ■■?
Naff all
So you think unite fail its members?, history shows it doesnt fail the members who are prepared to strike to get whats right, we as drivers are the only ones that are to blame for the state of this industry not the unions.
So what happens with Drivers do strike and try to stand up for themselves? The bosses just get the agency mob in to carry on. If all the drivers at my place decided to strike, within an hour agencies drivers would in drafted in and rolling out.
Really? if drivers stuck together there wouldnt be any agency drivers to draft in would there, they would be out on strike with you!!!
Doubt it. There are alot of agency bods would are chomping at the bit to get work. If they got the offer of two weeks of solid work, most would bite your hand off!
Do you think there would be same amount of agency drivers about if full time employed drivers were being payed what they are worth along with improved working conditions?
Obviously in terms of numbers,which is what sets the wage rates,yes.To get wages up you need to increase demand for labour while hopefully reducing supply.You won’t do either of those in an environment where government ( union supported ) policy is to get more trucks off the road while at the same time importing more cheap east euro labour.
Is there any evidence “cheap” east euro drivers are earning less than a uk national in road haulage?
Wrong question.
Is there any evidence that east Euro immigration is adding to an already over supplied labour market thereby reducing wage rates across the board for all.
In addition to government policy that is all about getting as many trucks off the road as possible by way of extortionate fuel taxation amongst other over regulation thereby reducing the demand for drivers and adding yet more downward pressure on wages.
nick2008:
yet another union spawling a crock of horse dung funny that this was what they were saying Years ago and what happened ■■?
Naff all
So you think unite fail its members?, history shows it doesnt fail the members who are prepared to strike to get whats right, we as drivers are the only ones that are to blame for the state of this industry not the unions.
So what happens with Drivers do strike and try to stand up for themselves? The bosses just get the agency mob in to carry on. If all the drivers at my place decided to strike, within an hour agencies drivers would in drafted in and rolling out.
Really? if drivers stuck together there wouldnt be any agency drivers to draft in would there, they would be out on strike with you!!!
Doubt it. There are alot of agency bods would are chomping at the bit to get work. If they got the offer of two weeks of solid work, most would bite your hand off!
Do you think there would be same amount of agency drivers about if full time employed drivers were being payed what they are worth along with improved working conditions?
Obviously in terms of numbers,which is what sets the wage rates,yes.To get wages up you need to increase demand for labour while hopefully reducing supply.You won’t do either of those in an environment where government ( union supported ) policy is to get more trucks off the road while at the same time importing more cheap east euro labour.
Is there any evidence “cheap” east euro drivers are earning less than a uk national in road haulage?
Wrong question.
Is there any evidence that east Euro immigration is adding to an already over supplied labour market thereby reducing wage rates across the board for all.
In addition to government policy that is all about getting as many trucks off the road as possible by way of extortionate fuel taxation amongst other over regulation thereby reducing the demand for drivers.
Well that policy failed then with the cost of fuel dropping drasticly over the last few months.
nick2008:
yet another union spawling a crock of horse dung funny that this was what they were saying Years ago and what happened ■■?
Naff all
So you think unite fail its members?, history shows it doesnt fail the members who are prepared to strike to get whats right, we as drivers are the only ones that are to blame for the state of this industry not the unions.
So what happens with Drivers do strike and try to stand up for themselves? The bosses just get the agency mob in to carry on. If all the drivers at my place decided to strike, within an hour agencies drivers would in drafted in and rolling out.
Really? if drivers stuck together there wouldnt be any agency drivers to draft in would there, they would be out on strike with you!!!
Doubt it. There are alot of agency bods would are chomping at the bit to get work. If they got the offer of two weeks of solid work, most would bite your hand off!
Do you think there would be same amount of agency drivers about if full time employed drivers were being payed what they are worth along with improved working conditions?
Obviously in terms of numbers,which is what sets the wage rates,yes.To get wages up you need to increase demand for labour while hopefully reducing supply.You won’t do either of those in an environment where government ( union supported ) policy is to get more trucks off the road while at the same time importing more cheap east euro labour.
Is there any evidence “cheap” east euro drivers are earning less than a uk national in road haulage?
Does anyone really need evidence, other than their own eyes and a smattering of common sense, that an oversupply of labour prepared to work for minimum wage (next to bugger all) is going to impact on earnings of the labour already in place, it matters not a jot where any of them happen to come from if there’s too many.
In this instance there is no difference 'tween either of the three cheeks of the same arse party, leaders of all three want to stay in the EU, which means, as Angela has already told toy boy Cast Iron Dave, open borders with free movement of peoples between the member states, thats it take it or leave it and he’ll take it.
The union is trying to do the right thing for workers t’s and c’s, but they’re ■■■■■■■ in the wind until someone shuts the wide open door which ironically must be union backed as they are tied to Labour, the only person who’s got the ■■■■■■■■ to do that is Farage and UKIP by removing us from the EU, allowing us to control our own borders again.
Let us hope enough working class people see through the charades of the mainstream parties and their buddies in the media in May, but i won’t be holding my breath.
Remember, you get exactly what you vote for, if turkeys vote for Christmas they shouldn’t really be surprised when December 25th arrives.
sinclair89:
Little bit off topic, but I am not part of any Union. Would it be an idea for me to join one and if so, are unite one of the better ones to join?
Depends if there’s a union where you work, or would you like to form one if enough of your colleagues would also join, not a lot of use on your own TBH, similarly it’s not on IMO when people won’t join the union where there is union recognition, yet have no trouble trousering the pay rises they’ve had year on year all through the recession and moaning about it all at length.
I’ve been with Unite, formerly TGWU, for donkeys years, without fail the best jobs i’ve had have been properly unionised and the worse not.
The most important choice you will make is your shop steward, choose wisely…
nick2008:
yet another union spawling a crock of horse dung funny that this was what they were saying Years ago and what happened ■■?
Naff all
So you think unite fail its members?, history shows it doesnt fail the members who are prepared to strike to get whats right, we as drivers are the only ones that are to blame for the state of this industry not the unions.
So what happens with Drivers do strike and try to stand up for themselves? The bosses just get the agency mob in to carry on. If all the drivers at my place decided to strike, within an hour agencies drivers would in drafted in and rolling out.
Really? if drivers stuck together there wouldnt be any agency drivers to draft in would there, they would be out on strike with you!!!
Doubt it. There are alot of agency bods would are chomping at the bit to get work. If they got the offer of two weeks of solid work, most would bite your hand off!
Do you think there would be same amount of agency drivers about if full time employed drivers were being payed what they are worth along with improved working conditions?
Obviously in terms of numbers,which is what sets the wage rates,yes.To get wages up you need to increase demand for labour while hopefully reducing supply.You won’t do either of those in an environment where government ( union supported ) policy is to get more trucks off the road while at the same time importing more cheap east euro labour.
Is there any evidence “cheap” east euro drivers are earning less than a uk national in road haulage?
Wrong question.
Is there any evidence that east Euro immigration is adding to an already over supplied labour market thereby reducing wage rates across the board for all.
In addition to government policy that is all about getting as many trucks off the road as possible by way of extortionate fuel taxation amongst other over regulation thereby reducing the demand for drivers.
Well that policy failed then with the cost of fuel dropping drasticly over the last few months.
I don’t think that less than a pound off of almost £6 per gallon is a ‘drastic’ cut as allowing trucks to use red diesel would be.
While the ongoing politically driven shift in freight from road to rail is a fact.Especially in terms of long haul container transport and the distribution sectors.
nick2008:
yet another union spawling a crock of horse dung funny that this was what they were saying Years ago and what happened ■■?
Naff all
So you think unite fail its members?, history shows it doesnt fail the members who are prepared to strike to get whats right, we as drivers are the only ones that are to blame for the state of this industry not the unions.
So what happens with Drivers do strike and try to stand up for themselves? The bosses just get the agency mob in to carry on. If all the drivers at my place decided to strike, within an hour agencies drivers would in drafted in and rolling out.
Really? if drivers stuck together there wouldnt be any agency drivers to draft in would there, they would be out on strike with you!!!
Doubt it. There are alot of agency bods would are chomping at the bit to get work. If they got the offer of two weeks of solid work, most would bite your hand off!
Do you think there would be same amount of agency drivers about if full time employed drivers were being payed what they are worth along with improved working conditions?
Obviously in terms of numbers,which is what sets the wage rates,yes.To get wages up you need to increase demand for labour while hopefully reducing supply.You won’t do either of those in an environment where government ( union supported ) policy is to get more trucks off the road while at the same time importing more cheap east euro labour.
Is there any evidence “cheap” east euro drivers are earning less than a uk national in road haulage?
Does anyone really need evidence, other than their own eyes and a smattering of common sense, that an oversupply of labour prepared to work for minimum wage (next to bugger all) is going to impact on earnings of the labour already in place, it matters not a jot where any of them happen to come from if there’s too many.
In this instance there is no difference 'tween either of the three cheeks of the same arse party, leaders of all three want to stay in the EU, which means, as Angela has already told toy boy Cast Iron Dave, open borders with free movement of peoples between the member states, thats it take it or leave it and he’ll take it.
The union is trying to do the right thing for workers t’s and c’s, but they’re ■■■■■■■ in the wind until someone shuts the wide open door which ironically must be union backed as they are tied to Labour, the only person who’s got the ■■■■■■■■ to do that is Farage and UKIP by removing us from the EU, allowing us to control our own borders again.
Let us hope enough working class people see through the charades of the mainstream parties and their buddies in the media in May, but i won’t be holding my breath.
Remember, you get exactly what you vote for, if turkeys vote for Christmas they shouldn’t really be surprised when December 25th arrives.
The crap hourly rates and poor working coditions in road haulge has nothing to do with the influx of east euro labour, hourly rates have generaly been been bad long before they came on the scene, yes there has been a small percentage of companies paying drivers a very healthy one, fuel tanker drivers of old spring to mind.
I don’t think there is a union where I work. I can’t see any of the drivers wanting to join either because we do have a cushy number.
I was just thinking along the lines of having some form of back up should anything go wrong so could I just join unite and pay my membership?
sinclair89:
I don’t think there is a union where I work. I can’t see any of the drivers wanting to join either because we do have a cushy number.
I was just thinking along the lines of having some form of back up should anything go wrong so could I just join unite and pay my membership?
Absolutely, you could join online tonight if you wanted to, pay by standing order or DD, i forget which, approx £13 a month.
URTU is another drivers union but i haven’t been a member of that one since the late 70’s so haven’t a clue what they are like now.
RMT i understand allow lorry drivers in, but whether they have the expertise at local level in lorry law i wouldn’t have a clue, they certainly look after their members interests but then their members are reliable union members too.
Juddian:
Does anyone really need evidence, other than their own eyes and a smattering of common sense, that an oversupply of labour prepared to work for minimum wage (next to bugger all) is going to impact on earnings of the labour already in place, it matters not a jot where any of them happen to come from if there’s too many.
In this instance there is no difference 'tween either of the three cheeks of the same arse party, leaders of all three want to stay in the EU, which means, as Angela has already told toy boy Cast Iron Dave, open borders with free movement of peoples between the member states, thats it take it or leave it and he’ll take it.
The union is trying to do the right thing for workers t’s and c’s, but they’re ■■■■■■■ in the wind until someone shuts the wide open door which ironically must be union backed as they are tied to Labour, the only person who’s got the ■■■■■■■■ to do that is Farage and UKIP by removing us from the EU, allowing us to control our own borders again.
Let us hope enough working class people see through the charades of the mainstream parties and their buddies in the media in May, but i won’t be holding my breath.
Remember, you get exactly what you vote for, if turkeys vote for Christmas they shouldn’t really be surprised when December 25th arrives.
^ This.
The fact is the road transport Unions are lumbered with being tied to a political position rather than what suits their members.In this case that translates as the obvious conflict of interest between what is good for the rail unions can’t also be good for road transport ones and socialist dogma regarding immigration policy and EU membership.At least since Shore etc lost the battle to take Labour along the Euro sceptic route.
nick2008:
yet another union spawling a crock of horse dung funny that this was what they were saying Years ago and what happened ■■?
Naff all
So you think unite fail its members?, history shows it doesnt fail the members who are prepared to strike to get whats right, we as drivers are the only ones that are to blame for the state of this industry not the unions.
So what happens with Drivers do strike and try to stand up for themselves? The bosses just get the agency mob in to carry on. If all the drivers at my place decided to strike, within an hour agencies drivers would in drafted in and rolling out.
Really? if drivers stuck together there wouldnt be any agency drivers to draft in would there, they would be out on strike with you!!!
Doubt it. There are alot of agency bods would are chomping at the bit to get work. If they got the offer of two weeks of solid work, most would bite your hand off!
Do you think there would be same amount of agency drivers about if full time employed drivers were being payed what they are worth along with improved working conditions?
There will always been a need for agency. What if the regular driver is taken ill and there is a load that needs to be delivered before 2pm and all your other drivers are already on a run? You call the agency and get them to send a driver in. Agency is what agency does. It is a service that is there to be used and abused and there are plenty of people lining up to sign on. Hell, if I’m being truely honest, the agency lads at my place are the getting the better deal! They get paid more and are on hourly rate. They can tell the office to go shove it if they are getting messed about.
IMO its because of the poor pay and working conditions that pushed drivers to go agency and now we are stuck in this vicious circle.
sinclair89:
I don’t think there is a union where I work. I can’t see any of the drivers wanting to join either because we do have a cushy number.
I was just thinking along the lines of having some form of back up should anything go wrong so could I just join unite and pay my membership?
Absolutely, you could join online tonight if you wanted to, pay by standing order or DD, i forget which, approx £13 a month.
URTU is another drivers union but i haven’t been a member of that one since the late 70’s so haven’t a clue what they are like now.
RMT i understand allow lorry drivers in, but whether they have the expertise at local level in lorry law i wouldn’t have a clue, they certainly look after their members interests but then their members are reliable union members too.
Excellent, think I will look into joining unite. My dad has been banging on at me to join one since I got on the road. Think he’s in URTU and they have helped him since his illness took him off t’road.
The fact is the road transport Unions are lumbered with being tied to a political position rather than what suits their members.In this case that translates as the obvious conflict of interest between what is good for the rail unions can’t also be good for road transport ones and socialist dogma regarding immigration policy and EU membership.At least since Shore etc lost the battle to take Labour along the Euro sceptic route.
Yes, people forget that Labour was fully opposed to joining the EU at one time, the rest, including the working class they were supposed to stand up for, is history.
The fact is the road transport Unions are lumbered with being tied to a political position rather than what suits their members.In this case that translates as the obvious conflict of interest between what is good for the rail unions can’t also be good for road transport ones and socialist dogma regarding immigration policy and EU membership.At least since Shore etc lost the battle to take Labour along the Euro sceptic route.
Yes, people forget that Labour was fully opposed to joining the EU at one time, the rest, including the working class they were supposed to stand up for, is history.
Absolutely we can only dream of what might have been if only we’d have got a Powell and Shore led coalition instead of the train wreck caused by Wilson,Callaghan,and then Thatcher.
Like drivers, the vehicle owners won’t stick together to get a good deal for the whole industry, they are as much to blame for the situation its in as us as drivers are.
Rate cutting to get a poorly paid contract doesn’t help anyone.
The only thing that will help this industry as a whole is for the rates employers are getting being increased, more profit = more money available to pay drivers a better wage with better working conditions.
Dont believe it? spend a £1 and get a copy of your companies accounts and be suprised by the lack of profit they are making on the massive turn over they are declaring.
I did this once, before I asked for a pay rise, knowing they were struggling, just to see what they would say, and they were honest and said they couldnt afford to pay any more.
Profit goes towards investment in the company, with no investment there’s no future.
I’ve seen accounts for a haulage company which had a £15 million turnover return only £80,000 profit, not much money left there to give 100 staff a wage rise.
weeto:
Like drivers, the vehicle owners won’t stick together to get a good deal for the whole industry, they are as much to blame for the situation its in as us as drivers are.
Rate cutting to get a poorly paid contract doesn’t help anyone.
The only thing that will help this industry as a whole is for the rates employers are getting being increased, more profit = more money available to pay drivers a better wage with better working conditions.
Dont believe it? spend a £1 and get a copy of your companies accounts and be suprised by the lack of profit they are making on the massive turn over they are declaring.
I did this once, before I asked for a pay rise, knowing they were struggling, just to see what they would say, and they were honest and said they couldnt afford to pay any more.
Profit goes towards investment in the company, with no investment there’s no future.
I’ve seen accounts for a haulage company which had a £15 million turnover return only £80,000 profit, not much money left there to give 100 staff a wage rise.
As usual fuel costs as a percentage of total outgoings and turnover being the major contradictory factor in terms of wages and making the figures add up both in terms of customer acceptance and profitability.No other industry would be prepared to accept such massive punitive taxation being such a large part of its overheads and costing.
Assuming that issue is ever sorted out in the form of the ability to use red diesel then the Unions would need to negotiate a national freight charging agreement like the Teamsters sorted out in the 1960’s.Which removes the ability of operators to use wages as a method of competitive under cutting.
nick2008:
yet another union spawling a crock of horse dung funny that this was what they were saying Years ago and what happened ■■?
Naff all
So you think unite fail its members?, history shows it doesnt fail the members who are prepared to strike to get whats right, we as drivers are the only ones that are to blame for the state of this industry not the unions.
So what happens with Drivers do strike and try to stand up for themselves? The bosses just get the agency mob in to carry on. If all the drivers at my place decided to strike, within an hour agencies drivers would in drafted in and rolling out.
Really? if drivers stuck together there wouldnt be any agency drivers to draft in would there, they would be out on strike with you!!!
Doubt it. There are alot of agency bods would are chomping at the bit to get work. If they got the offer of two weeks of solid work, most would bite your hand off!
Do you think there would be same amount of agency drivers about if full time employed drivers were being payed what they are worth along with improved working conditions?
There will always been a need for agency. What if the regular driver is taken ill and there is a load that needs to be delivered before 2pm and all your other drivers are already on a run? You call the agency and get them to send a driver in. Agency is what agency does. It is a service that is there to be used and abused and there are plenty of people lining up to sign on. Hell, if I’m being truely honest, the agency lads at my place are the getting the better deal! They get paid more and are on hourly rate. They can tell the office to go shove it if they are getting messed about.
IMO its because of the poor pay and working conditions that pushed drivers to go agency and now we are stuck in this vicious circle.
There has alway been a need, i didnt insinuate that there wouldn’t, there not a new thing, I started on agency 26 years ago for the experience, difference then was agency paid less not more than permenent staff, just to add the dreaded 2 years experience has been around just as long maybe a lot longer, I dont know, but easier to get around back then.
And who wouldnt want to do the same job for more money and a better life style if they can work as they please, you dont get many doing it if they have money comitments and a family to worry about though because it isnt a garanteed income.
But then it comes down to them who cant afford to lose a few days/weeks money to help improve the industry, keeping their head down and put up with the crap, just so long as the bills get paid, but no one can blame them when we all saw what happened to the coal miners.
weeto:
Like drivers, the vehicle owners won’t stick together to get a good deal for the whole industry, they are as much to blame for the situation its in as us as drivers are.
Rate cutting to get a poorly paid contract doesn’t help anyone.
The only thing that will help this industry as a whole is for the rates employers are getting being increased, more profit = more money available to pay drivers a better wage with better working conditions.
Dont believe it? spend a £1 and get a copy of your companies accounts and be suprised by the lack of profit they are making on the massive turn over they are declaring.
I did this once, before I asked for a pay rise, knowing they were struggling, just to see what they would say, and they were honest and said they couldnt afford to pay any more.
Profit goes towards investment in the company, with no investment there’s no future.
I’ve seen accounts for a haulage company which had a £15 million turnover return only £80,000 profit, not much money left there to give 100 staff a wage rise.
As usual fuel costs as a percentage of total outgoings and turnover being the major contradictory factor in terms of wages and making the figures add up both in terms of customer acceptance and profitability.No other industry would be prepared to accept such massive punitive taxation being such a large part of its overheads and costing.
Assuming that issue is ever sorted out in the form of the ability to use red diesel then the Unions would need to negotiate a national freight charging agreement like the Teamsters sorted out in the 1960’s.Which removes the ability of operators to use wages as a method of competitive under cutting.
If it was worth doing, we would of had Virgin trucks battling the likes of stobart for the lucrative work years ago, but I imagine he’s crunched the numbers and walked away muttering, what a bunch of idiots!
And I am sure ive heard in the past that the Dutch government have fixed a realistic minimum rate per job/mile so road safety/drivers aren’t compramised by cowboy hauliers.
