Left hand down!:
Too many armchair experts on this site…
I wish an armchair expert had said something like this to me all those years I was being cheated out of holiday pay.
which was my point shake so fair play for the digging.
my point was a lot of mon to fri lads all of a sudden think oh i am off on holiday and start banging in every other weekend al lof a sudden.
shake:
Left hand down!:
Too many armchair experts on this site…I wish an armchair expert had said something like this to me all those years I was being cheated out of holiday pay.
My comment was a response to the thread in general, not a specific post, in case it came across that way.
war1974:
which was my point shake so fair play for the digging.my point was a lot of mon to fri lads all of a sudden think oh i am off on holiday and start banging in every other weekend al lof a sudden.
I agree completely. If you are on contracted hours and work a “normal” week then it is unlikely that you will qualify for holiday pay on “overtime” unless your employer wants to pay it. I know when I worked at Asda in the late 80 ies we were on fixed hours but did get holiday pay on overtime.
dont think much has changed shake.
but hate to see people being miss informed and you are correct a lot of people know a little about a lot but not a lot about a little.
think one of these Umbrella type thread should be Stickied as it pops up on here about once a week.
tmcassett:
The-Snowman:
All I know (and really care about to be honest) is that by using umbrella company and being self employed (even if thats just in name and im not technically SE) is that full time per hour I am looking at roughly £8-£9 per hour. For a 55 hr week,that’s £495. Take off tax = round about the £360 mark,being generous. Plus any things you buy such as safety footwear,gloves,bag etc and also other expenses like travel costs,meal costs,laundry etc all have to come out of this. That’s based on £9. Most jobs are paying less than that.
Go through agency and umbrella I get £12,rising to around £14 for weekends. For a 55 hr week,thats £660. From this comes tax obviously but I can claim travel expenses,meals,any work related items etc. That leaves me getting each week roughly £540.
Of course some weeks I don’t do 55hrs. But I have never been paid less than £430 for any one week. That’s for a four day week too.
I am not on here to champion for umbrella companies vs PAYE or full time employment. I’m also not saying the accounting firm or agency don’t benefit from it more either. All im saying is my only real concern is my bottom line and how much I walk away with after a working week.Its that sort of naive and gullible attitude that is going to potentially land you with a large tax bill further down the road. You have just admitted the fact you know you are not self employed. I assume you are keeping and filing all receipts for the things you are claiming or let me guess the umbrella company told you that you don’t need them?
As mentioned above though you are not self employed, as far as HMRC goes you are an employee and as such are leaving yourself open to trouble. To avoid that you either need to be PAYE and put in a claim via a p87 form at the end of the year (HMRC will decide what you can legally claim) or set yourself up as either a Ltd Co. or become a sole trader.
There is a lot of scare-mongering goes on in relation to the whole Ltd Co. thing and HMRC but if you do it properly you have nothing to worry about but if HMRC are clamping down and investigating anything then it’s umbrella companies that will be top of their radar. Guess who will be landed with a big back dated tax bill - clue, it won’t be the agency or umbrella company.
Naive and gullible? Do you really think I just jumped in and signed up with out looking into things first?
I will not have a large tax bill. My tax is paid each week based on my earnings. I have all relevent paperwork to confirm this.
Your way wrong re reciepts. They will not process anything without a reciept. In fact,I tried to claim for a torch but was rejected because it did not say torch on the reciept.
And I didnt admit I was not self employed,I merely was commenting on some other things that were said making me think it was SE in name only. I assure you I am SE as there is a company name with me as director. I think I have misunderstood the difference between umbrella companies and SE.
Apologies to OP. What you guys are saying about umbrella companies does not match what I deal with each week regards payments etc
As of last month all compulsory overtime but not voluntary overtime should be taken into account when paying holiday pay.
So if you do a sixth day(unless you contract says you have to work a set number) its not counted.
But everything you do on the other 5 days.
The-Snowman:
tmcassett:
The-Snowman:
All I know (and really care about to be honest) is that by using umbrella company and being self employed (even if thats just in name and im not technically SE) is that full time per hour I am looking at roughly £8-£9 per hour. For a 55 hr week,that’s £495. Take off tax = round about the £360 mark,being generous. Plus any things you buy such as safety footwear,gloves,bag etc and also other expenses like travel costs,meal costs,laundry etc all have to come out of this. That’s based on £9. Most jobs are paying less than that.
Go through agency and umbrella I get £12,rising to around £14 for weekends. For a 55 hr week,thats £660. From this comes tax obviously but I can claim travel expenses,meals,any work related items etc. That leaves me getting each week roughly £540.
Of course some weeks I don’t do 55hrs. But I have never been paid less than £430 for any one week. That’s for a four day week too.
I am not on here to champion for umbrella companies vs PAYE or full time employment. I’m also not saying the accounting firm or agency don’t benefit from it more either. All im saying is my only real concern is my bottom line and how much I walk away with after a working week.Its that sort of naive and gullible attitude that is going to potentially land you with a large tax bill further down the road. You have just admitted the fact you know you are not self employed. I assume you are keeping and filing all receipts for the things you are claiming or let me guess the umbrella company told you that you don’t need them?
As mentioned above though you are not self employed, as far as HMRC goes you are an employee and as such are leaving yourself open to trouble. To avoid that you either need to be PAYE and put in a claim via a p87 form at the end of the year (HMRC will decide what you can legally claim) or set yourself up as either a Ltd Co. or become a sole trader.
There is a lot of scare-mongering goes on in relation to the whole Ltd Co. thing and HMRC but if you do it properly you have nothing to worry about but if HMRC are clamping down and investigating anything then it’s umbrella companies that will be top of their radar. Guess who will be landed with a big back dated tax bill - clue, it won’t be the agency or umbrella company.
Naive and gullible? Do you really think I just jumped in and signed up with out looking into things first?
I will not have a large tax bill. My tax is paid each week based on my earnings. I have all relevent paperwork to confirm this.
Your way wrong re reciepts. They will not process anything without a reciept. In fact,I tried to claim for a torch but was rejected because it did not say torch on the reciept.
And I didnt admit I was not self employed,I merely was commenting on some other things that were said making me think it was SE in name only. I assure you I am SE as there is a company name with me as director. I think I have misunderstood the difference between umbrella companies and SE.
Apologies to OP. What you guys are saying about umbrella companies does not match what I deal with each week regards payments etc
Okay so it sounds to me like the umbrella company have you set up as a Ltd Co. if you are the director and have a company name. Are you still paying their employers national insurance as well as the £14 fee’s to them each week? If so it now begs the question why don’t you do it yourself, get a good accountant for a lot less than the cost of the umbrella company. A good accountant will have you running your company in the most tax efficient way - certainly better than any umbrella company will, they are also better placed to give advice on what’s legal and what’s not.
Not trying to seem like I’m having a go but these umbrella company schemes are a con and people can’t seem to see it. When I first started agency work they tried to push me onto one but I told them I wanted to research it first before I signed up. As well as reading up on them it also included a phone call to HMRC explaining my situation and what I could or could not claim. The response I got from the nice lady was that I would be an employee of the umbrella company and thus not entitled to most of what I was told. The key word is employee. Unfortunately most of these umbrellas take a very loose description of the wording on the rules and twist them into something that could in theory get you in trouble. Do I think it would ever happen - probably not but you never know.
With work being plentiful nowdays, it amazes me that drivers don’t know the value of their own hands.
Paying for work is never going to be right.
In all these discussions - no one talks about “what happens when I go into hospital” or take some prolonged sick absence on one of these Umbrella outfits? 
For what the umbrella companies are charging you co go full se and get better benefits. Its not much more work unless you go for vat and that’s not really that hard to do. There’s lots of invoicing apps about on all pc and mobile phones. So invoicing customers is easy. For some reason allot of agencies don’t like fully ltd and prefer you to use there umbrella scam (scheme) its this reason all my work is direct to companies
Though not a fan of umbrella Co`s, I can highly recommend THIS ONE
The-Snowman:
peter s:
The-Snowman:
I was on the books of Driver hire East kilbride for a while for class 2 work. Was a specific contract so was consistent work. Once the contract ended I didnt get a lot from them however and ended up leaving. Things have changed now though,so they may well have more shifts and better wages now a days.
As for the whole umbrella company thing,it has something to do with the law changing regarding how offshore workers are paid and it has inadvertantly affected agency workers. I THINK. If anyone knows otherwise,let us both know!
What I will say though is that should you go down this route,you will be much better off each week in wages than with PAYE. The accounting firm will deal with all wages and work out your tax,expenses etc. You dont need to worry about it. I do agency work this way and I will not go back to PAYEAre you on drugs or somefink
No. But I AM on around £50 a week more this way than PAYE. And thats WITH the £14 a week (NOT £25) they take to do all the accounting
The £50 a week better off you speak of is actually the umbrella company giving you a tax offset rebate you may or may not be entitled to. If you ARE entitled to it, you’d get it on a PAYE job - absolutely free!
If you’re NOT entitled to it?..
Why pay for something that might come back and bite you in the arse as an “underpaid tax bill” later in the year?
Umbrella gets REAL expensive as the number of days in a week worked drops below about six. 
alix776:
For what the umbrella companies are charging you co go full se and get better benefits. Its not much more work unless you go for vat and that’s not really that hard to do.
Registering for VAT doesn’t really make it any more work i nthe grand scheme of things, it just adds a little bit of time on. Takes me about 15 mins to tot up my figures for the past quarter in fill in the 3 boxes on the VAT return. Job done.
There’s lots of invoicing apps about on all pc and mobile phones. So invoicing customers is easy. For some reason allot of agencies don’t like fully ltd and prefer you to use there umbrella scam (scheme) its this reason all my work is direct to companies
The reason agencies don’t like ltd cos is they can’t cream any weekly fees from you like they would do if they had you signed up to their in-house brolly scheme.
Winseer:
The-Snowman:
peter s:
The-Snowman:
I was on the books of Driver hire East kilbride for a while for class 2 work. Was a specific contract so was consistent work. Once the contract ended I didnt get a lot from them however and ended up leaving. Things have changed now though,so they may well have more shifts and better wages now a days.
As for the whole umbrella company thing,it has something to do with the law changing regarding how offshore workers are paid and it has inadvertantly affected agency workers. I THINK. If anyone knows otherwise,let us both know!
What I will say though is that should you go down this route,you will be much better off each week in wages than with PAYE. The accounting firm will deal with all wages and work out your tax,expenses etc. You dont need to worry about it. I do agency work this way and I will not go back to PAYEAre you on drugs or somefink
No. But I AM on around £50 a week more this way than PAYE. And thats WITH the £14 a week (NOT £25) they take to do all the accounting
The £50 a week better off you speak of is actually the umbrella company giving you a tax offset rebate you may or may not be entitled to. If you ARE entitled to it, you’d get it on a PAYE job - absolutely free!
If you’re NOT entitled to it?..
Why pay for something that might come back and bite you in the arse as an “underpaid tax bill” later in the year?Umbrella gets REAL expensive as the number of days in a week worked drops below about six.
+1 to this
This was the point I was trying to make earlier albeit in a more long winded way. Also agree about your comment about paying to go to work, people just look at the fact that they get x amount more a week than on PAYE but seem oblivious to the hidden extra’s that they are effectively paying out or what they are losing out on and in lot of cases they are actually worse off in the long term.
Don’t forget another reason why you might be “better off” in your pay packet is that you are getting paid holiday pay on a weekly basis. When you come to take a holiday you may find it is time off with no further pay.
So I get paid more per week but do not get holiday pay if I take a week off?
Another way to look at that is that I get paid less per week if not SE because my holiday & sick pay is held back.
It’s swings and roundabouts.
I really does not matter to me if guys on here don’t like them or if they think they are a rip off. As ive said twice before,my ONLY concern will ever be my bottom line. I get more this way than by being full time employed. I am happy with what comes off my top line for tax etc and what I get paid after tax. For the hours I work,the pay is acceptable. All deductions are acceptable to me. I get full breakdowns each week so if a nasty tax bill comes my way,they will get directed to my accountancy firm. And before anyone chimes in,if that happens and they wash their hands then i’ll see them in court.
On another note,for all guys going on about not using umbrella companies and being SE in your own right,the law was changed back in April for this type of work. I checked it out with my wifes accountant (an actual accountant who went to university,not someone who has browsed the internet a few times and now claims to be an expert) as I was wondering about cutting out the accountancy firm and going it alone and she told me the hassle to change and what was involved now was not worth it for what I would get extra. The law was changed to deal with,I think,offshore payments to rig workers etc and it has dragged agency workers into the legislation.
I can’t remember exactly what she said I would need to do to stay legal but I do know that not one person has mentioned any of them on here so far when banging on about self employment. This makes me wonder how clued up the “experts” are
If anyone actually knows for sure(facts,not rumours please) then im all ears as long as it can remain civil
Sorry posted in error
The-Snowman:
So I get paid more per week but do not get holiday pay if I take a week off?
Another way to look at that is that I get paid less per week if not SE because my holiday & sick pay is held back.
It’s swings and roundabouts.
I really does not matter to me if guys on here don’t like them or if they think they are a rip off. As ive said twice before,my ONLY concern will ever be my bottom line. I get more this way than by being full time employed. I am happy with what comes off my top line for tax etc and what I get paid after tax. For the hours I work,the pay is acceptable. All deductions are acceptable to me. I get full breakdowns each week so if a nasty tax bill comes my way,they will get directed to my accountancy firm. And before anyone chimes in,if that happens and they wash their hands then i’ll see them in court.
On another note,for all guys going on about not using umbrella companies and being SE in your own right,the law was changed back in April for this type of work. I checked it out with my wifes accountant (an actual accountant who went to university,not someone who has browsed the internet a few times and now claims to be an expert) as I was wondering about cutting out the accountancy firm and going it alone and she told me the hassle to change and what was involved now was not worth it for what I would get extra. The law was changed to deal with,I think,offshore payments to rig workers etc and it has dragged agency workers into the legislation.
I can’t remember exactly what she said I would need to do to stay legal but I do know that not one person has mentioned any of them on here so far when banging on about self employment. This makes me wonder how clued up the “experts” are
If anyone actually knows for sure(facts,not rumours please) then im all ears as long as it can remain civil
No its not swings and roundabouts in regards of your holiday and sick pay, they are not held back, they are simply added on top of what you earn if your PAYE, if you set yourself as a LTD Co. then no you don’t get holiday and sick pay but neither are you paying the umbrella company fee’s and THEIR national insurance contributions. As I said earlier that extra that you get as your “bottom line” is wiped away with these things. Clearly though your happy and feel your not being ripped off and that’s what great about our country in that we are free to make our own choices so fair play to you for that one. I’m just trying to highlight you could have even more in your “bottom line”.
Also just because someone’s been to university does not automatically mean their opinion on something is true and correct. Case in point on this is the comment “going properly SE is not worth the hassle anymore for the extra you will get”. Exactly what hassle would that be then - the 15 minutes it took me to register online with HMRC as a LTD Co. or the extra 15 minutes I spend a week doing my paperwork (because i’m organised) which includes adding on 20% extra per week to my weekly invoice which for every £20 I charge in VAT £9 goes into my pocket for free or is that the extra hassle that I can negeoiate my own pay rates (obviously within reason) and the fact that its more than the measly £1 per hour offered by agencies. I just hate the fact these umbrella companies exist because they are such a rip off and people can’t see it.
Been with a few umbrella co’s,Numbermill are by far the worst,sure there some kind of fiddle set up by Milestone.Won’t use umbrella co’s again after Numbermill,deductions were 33%!!
Limited company is the best way.
iankav:
Been with a few umbrella co’s,Numbermill are by far the worst,sure there some kind of fiddle set up by Milestone.Won’t use umbrella co’s again after Numbermill,deductions were 33%!!
Limited company is the best way.
Hi iankav
Don’t know where you were with Milestone but they where in Burtons, Gilmoss when I was there. Pertemps where also in Burtons and that was a fair job, Pertemps, I thought, where ok and the pay was better than most.