When would these apply vs EU regs? As I read in the VOSA guide the max daily duty time is 11 hours max. The flow chart in the same document also shows a UK only trip as being under EU regs and not GB domestic rules- so you can do 15 hours right?
When would you be in scope of GB domestic rules, and subject to an 11 duty limit? I’m half expecting POA to rear its head here! Lol
Race Trucker:
When would these apply vs EU regs? As I read in the VOSA guide the max daily duty time is 11 hours max. The flow chart in the same document also shows a UK only trip as being under EU regs and not GB domestic rules- so you can do 15 hours right?When would you be in scope of GB domestic rules, and subject to an 11 duty limit? I’m half expecting POA to rear its head here! Lol
You are only on UK domestic rules if the vehicle or job is exempt from EU regulations.
There’s a list of exemptions from EU rules starting on page 13 here.
Basically if you’re driving a vehicle that’s in-scope of EU regulations and the job description isn’t in the list mentioned above you’re on EU regulations.
It’s nothing to do with POA 
Two completely different sets of rules so the rules on each must be used separately
If both sets are used in the same shift or the same week then the EU ones take preference but the domestic also apply
It can be confusing if they are mixed but much easier if only using one set during each fixed week
Legally the UK domestic rules allow a driver to drive constantly for 10 hours without a break or to work/drive for 11 hours with no break - be silly to do so but that is the legality
Domestic rules also allow a driver to drive for 10 hours a day 7 days a week for every week of the year
ROG:
Two completely different sets of rules so the rules on each must be used separatelyIf both sets are used in the same shift or the same week then the EU ones take preference but the domestic also apply
It can be confusing if they are mixed but much easier if only using one set during each fixed week
Legally the UK domestic rules allow a driver to drive constantly for 10 hours without a break or to work/drive for 11 hours with no break - be silly to do so but that is the legality
Domestic rules also allow a driver to drive for 10 hours a day 7 days a week for every
week of the year
So what would happen the Rog if, for example, a driver under domestic started on the Monday and worked through until the Saturday and then when he was due to work on the Sunday realised that he was no longer covered by domestic and had to adopt EU…I take it that he would not actually be able to work. Is that correct?
Lusk:
So what would happen the Rog if, for example, a driver under domestic started on the Monday and worked through until the Saturday and then when he was due to work on the Sunday realised that he was no longer covered by domestic and had to adopt EU…I take it that he would not actually be able to work. Is that correct?
I would say that you are correct on the face of it but there is also a view by some in authority that if a weekly rest started by sunday midnight then it would be legal - Personally I would say not do-able
Lusk:
So what would happen the Rog if, for example, a driver under domestic started on the Monday and worked through until the Saturday and then when he was due to work on the Sunday realised that he was no longer covered by domestic and had to adopt EU…I take it that he would not actually be able to work. Is that correct?
The driver would have to be finished on Sunday no later than 144 hours from the time he started on the previous Monday, so in practical terms it would most likely stop him working Sunday on EU rules.
However if you was on domestic rules Monday to Sunday you could start a new six periods of 24 hours on Monday morning as long as you had a daily rest period before starting work on the Monday.
ROG:
Lusk:
So what would happen the Rog if, for example, a driver under domestic started on the Monday and worked through until the Saturday and then when he was due to work on the Sunday realised that he was no longer covered by domestic and had to adopt EU…I take it that he would not actually be able to work. Is that correct?I would say that you are correct on the face of it but there is also a view by some in authority that if a weekly rest started by sunday midnight then it would be legal - Personally I would say not do-able
A weekly rest period starting before midnight Sunday would only make it legal if the weekly rest period was started no later than 144 hours from the start of the shift on the previous Monday.
Work done on domestic rules counts as other work for the EU rules, so a weekly rest period taken any later than 144 hours from the start of shift on Monday would have the driver going over the six periods of 24 hours allowed before starting a weekly rest period for the EU regulations…
tachograph:
ROG:
Lusk:
So what would happen the Rog if, for example, a driver under domestic started on the Monday and worked through until the Saturday and then when he was due to work on the Sunday realised that he was no longer covered by domestic and had to adopt EU…I take it that he would not actually be able to work. Is that correct?I would say that you are correct on the face of it but there is also a view by some in authority that if a weekly rest started by sunday midnight then it would be legal - Personally I would say not do-able
A weekly rest period starting before midnight Sunday would only make it legal if the weekly rest period was started no later than 144 hours from the start of the shift on the previous Monday.
Work done on domestic rules counts as other work for the EU rules, so a weekly rest period taken any later than 144 hours from the start of shift on Monday would have the driver going over the six periods of 24 hours allowed before starting a weekly rest period for the EU regulations…
I think it was geebee45 who gave me the alternate viewpoint that previous work done before doing EU regs could be challenged in court but has never been tested but I think he might have been referring to a driver who had say been doing 7 days a week under domestic and then going onto EU regs on a Monday morning for example so a new fixed week started the count from new
Its an interesting legal point which would need testing in court for a definitive
ROG:
I think it was geebee45 who gave me the alternate viewpoint that previous work done before doing EU regs could be challenged in court but has never been tested but I think he might have been referring to a driver who had say been doing 7 days a week under domestic and then going onto EU regs on a Monday morning for example so a new fixed week started the count from newIts an interesting legal point which would need testing in court for a definitive
Whoever it was was most likely referring to starting a new week on EU regulations after a week on domestic regulations.
I doubt there’s any dispute about needing to comply with the weekly rest requirements in weeks when a driver works to both EU and domestic regulations.
It is interesting though … if it can be argued that previous work before a new fixed week does not count for the 144 hours rule then the principal/precedence could be used for previous work done in the fixed week before driving under EU regs … bit I would not like to be the one who tested that in the UK and EU courts !!
ROG:
It is interesting though … if it can be argued that previous work before a new fixed week does not count for the 144 hours rule then the principal/precedence could be used for previous work done in the fixed week before driving under EU regs … bit I would not like to be the one who tested that in the UK and EU courts !!
I can see where you’re coming from, but we know that in any week you drive to EU regulations you must comply with the weekly rest requirement.
The thing is if VOSA said domestic work counts as other work no matter what week it was in, you could have to have a weekly rest period in a week that it’s not legally required.
Say after being on domestic rules all week you wanted to start on EU rules on Monday at 01:00, if the previous weeks work counted as other work and the six 24 hour periods was to be observed, you would be forced to have at-least Sunday as a weekly rest period, but as far as I can see you can’t be forced to have a weekly rest period in weeks that you don’t drive to EU regulations.
One of those strange anomalies I suppose, like you I won’t be the one to test it in court 