Turning Right at a roundabout

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85727

The OP’s video in the link above is a perfect example.

Its Illminster roundabout on the A303, going w/b both lanes turn right (all the way around) and the left also goes left and straight ahead. I often use this roundabout, and use the left lane to take the fourth exit which is for Taunton/M5, with very few problems except for the one which the OP in the thread also encountered. The majority of lorries I’ve observed do the same.

Travelling e/b on the A303 there are no marking but the two lanes are used in the same fashion as far the third exit (continuing ahead).

42

anisboy:
Had a bad day 17/5/12 accident caught on roadhawk - THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE) - Trucknet UK

The OP’s video in the link above is a perfect example.

Its Illminster roundabout on the A303, going w/b both lanes turn right (all the way around) and the left also goes left and straight ahead. I often use this roundabout, and use the left lane to take the fourth exit which is for Taunton/M5, with very few problems except for the one which the OP in the thread also encountered. The majority of lorries I’ve observed do the same.

Travelling e/b on the A303 there are no marking but the two lanes are used in the same fashion as far the third exit (continuing ahead).

That’s another typical example of a road layout that puts right turning traffic into a conflict situation by producing exactly the same type of potential scenario as in the video.Even in the case of traffic using the right lane correctly to turn right.It’s zb road planning that panders to zb driving standards.

On that note you probably don’t have many ‘problems’ because most people aren’t daft enough to allow the zb road layout to lead them into an inevitable conflict situation on the right turning exits.By staying in the left hand lane throughout the turn. :bulb:

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Rule 185
When reaching the roundabout you should

give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.


Rule 185: Follow the correct procedure at roundabouts

Rule 186
Signals and position. When taking the first exit to the left, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

signal left and approach in the left-hand lane
keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave.
When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.
When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

select the appropriate lane on approach to and on the roundabout
you should not normally need to signal on approach
stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.
When there are more than three lanes at the entrance to a roundabout, use the most appropriate lane on approach and through it.

44

205:
Rule 185
When reaching the roundabout you should

give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.


Rule 185: Follow the correct procedure at roundabouts

Rule 186
Signals and position. When taking the first exit to the left, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

signal left and approach in the left-hand lane
keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave.
When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.
When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

select the appropriate lane on approach to and on the roundabout
you should not normally need to signal on approach
stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.
When there are more than three lanes at the entrance to a roundabout, use the most appropriate lane on approach and through it.

It seems a bit pointless to make a clear rule of approach in the right hand lane and keep to the right to turn right if the authorities are then going to contradict it.At which point they’ve caused enough confusion and potential conflict among the traffic to effectively make the right hand lane on the approach and/or through a roundabout a no go area.Which certainly applies on all the examples posted.As for use the most appropriate lane for intermediate exits it’s probably reasonable to assume that anything past the straight ahead is ( should/would ) be a right.As it stands the idea of left lane to turn right has caused an obvious catch 22 that no one would want to use the right lane because it’s likely that traffic will be on the left when trying to exit the roundabout,while everyone with any sense wants to use the left lane for that reason.

The fact is the idea of using the left lane to turn right is no different in its effect to using the right lane to turn left where the left lane is also marked to go straight on. :unamused:

Although as I said in the case of many trucks the idea of following seperate lanes on the approach and through a roundabout is irrelevant anyway because of cut in issues.

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My method on roundabouts is to protect my nearside whereever possible, try and use the correct lane if marked and always use the inside lane if its a two lane to turn right jobby.

Smaller roundabouts are easy enough as I usually take up both entrance lanes anyway, larger roundabouts can be trickier as theres some obligation to let traffic through on the inside who may want to go left or straight on. In this situation use the correct lane on the right unless road markings dictate otherwise.

Enter roundabout like the clappers but not to deep as you dont want to be lurching to far left to negotiate it, take her very steady round the roundabout using correct indication and easing her left to put off any drivers wanting to go for it up the inside.

If slow and heavy expect a few to go for it but when reaching your desired exit take extra care to use nearside mirrors and early indication to get her left. Colliding with traffic on roundabouts is amongst the few deliberate accidents we can get away with as im sure theres a highway code rule informing cars to give room to large vehicles on roundabouts.

If in doubt use clockface scenario and protect blindside where possible.
Apart from in London when all bets are off.

Roundabouts with only 2 exits will usually put me in the nearside lane unless road markings state otherwise. However traffic flow will be taken into consideration and if its a large enough roundabout the right lane maybe best, always signal intention to use left lane to turn right as giving other drivers thinking time saves a lot of spilt tea.
If traffic is queing in the nearside lane and I want to turn left I will ususlly go right do a 360 and que jump the buggers, but only on Fridays.

Oh and I reserve the right to use the wrong lane and muck everybody about if im not sure where im going or unfamiliar with area.

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I was told when doing my test that any exit past the 12 o clock position on a roundabout then you use the right hand lane unless signs or road markings state otherwise.

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Assuming traffic in the left lane is turning right at the 3 rd exit what happens in the case of traffic in the right lane ‘also’ turning right,therefore wanting the same exit.

In the scenario I gave, traffic turning right at the 3rd exit should be in the left hand lane by that point, otherwise they’ll have to cut across a lane. See what I mean? If you start off in the right hand lane, at SOME point you’re going to have to indicate left and move over to exit. So I eliminate that problem by remaining in the left hand lane. And if somebody does run into me, it will be their fault because they will be crossing a lane in order to do so. To be clear on this, I am referring to the common scenario on a motorway flyover roundabout where there are two lanes running the entire circumference of a roundabout. Most of the time, you don’t have to cross any lane markings to turn right in the left hand lane.

Check this out, for example -

google.co.uk/maps/@52.39032 … a=!3m1!1e3

If I exit the A14 eastbound on this roundabout, for example, and wish to take the A43 south towards Northampton (third exit right), I’ll stay in the left hand lane with my right indicator on, remaining to the left all the way round before indicating off.

Apart from anything else, it seems to make everything run smoother, reduce aggro, and most importantly, is SAFER, as at no point do I leave my nearside unprotected.

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Javiatrix:

Assuming traffic in the left lane is turning right at the 3 rd exit what happens in the case of traffic in the right lane ‘also’ turning right,therefore wanting the same exit.

In the scenario I gave, traffic turning right at the 3rd exit should be in the left hand lane by that point, otherwise they’ll have to cut across a lane. See what I mean? If you start off in the right hand lane, at SOME point you’re going to have to indicate left and move over to exit. So I eliminate that problem by remaining in the left hand lane. And if somebody does run into me, it will be their fault because they will be crossing a lane in order to do so. To be clear on this, I am referring to the common scenario on a motorway flyover roundabout where there are two lanes running the entire circumference of a roundabout. Most of the time, you don’t have to cross any lane markings to turn right in the left hand lane.

Check this out, for example -

google.co.uk/maps/@52.39032 … a=!3m1!1e3

If I exit the A14 eastbound on this roundabout, for example, and wish to take the A43 south towards Northampton (third exit right), I’ll stay in the left hand lane with my right indicator on, remaining to the left all the way round before indicating off.

Apart from anything else, it seems to make everything run smoother, reduce aggro, and most importantly, is SAFER, as at no point do I leave my nearside unprotected.

Which is why as I said the idea of using the left lane to turn right effectively makes using the right lane to turn right redundant because there’s no way that you can have more than one lane turning right all trying to leave at the same exit.In which case why mark the roundabout to create that exact situation.

As for leaving the nearside ‘unprotected’ that’s only an issue because of the ridiculous idea of traffic using the left side of a roundabout to turn right.

As for doing it your way on an unmarked roundabout good luck if/when someone does run into when they are using the roundabout in accordance with the highway code method to turn right.Bearing mind that left lane means left or straight on only in that case.

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In a world where everybody followed the highway code, you’d be absolutely right, but I’ve found that in a HGV, I’ve had to cater for people who don’t when making my decisions, i.e. the nearside divebombers!

Remember, again, this is a TWO lane roundabout, therefore if somebody was to run into me, it means they haven’t checked their mirror before moving over and changing lanes, which I would argue is a more serious offence than initial positioning.

The reason this type of roundabout is a special case is because the second exit (i.e. straight over) is effectively redundant, and people wishing to do so should be in the left hand lane anyhow. Bearing this in mind, I think it makes perfect sense to remain in the left hand lane in this situation, as it requires no lane changes and leaves you in a stronger and safer position.

In terms of leaving the nearside unprotected or not, it’s not so much people using the left hand lane to turn right, but cars that move over to the left immediately after the ‘straight ahead’ exit and begin undertaking you.

The highway code works well most of the time, but most of it is of course only guidance (things you SHOULD do) and I find discretion is a big part of driving a truck to high standard of safety.

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the highway code is used as a guideline on prosecution for careless driving. It states quite clearly which lane should be used in which scenario. The more people use bad positioning, and others see it, then even more people will think it is acceptable.

In reference to the A14 on to A43. So does that mean you are one of the idiots who will pull up next to me on the slip road, when I am in the correct lane ( right one ), then attempt to stay next to me round the roundabout, and get surprised when I want to move over ( at the correct time ) to the left position. :unamused:

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TruckdriverTom:
the highway code is used as a guideline on prosecution for careless driving. It states quite clearly which lane should be used in which scenario. The more people use bad positioning, and others see it, then even more people will think it is acceptable.

In reference to the A14 on to A43. So does that mean you are one of the idiots who will pull up next to me on the slip road, when I am in the correct lane ( right one ), then attempt to stay next to me round the roundabout, and get surprised when I want to move over ( at the correct time ) to the left position. :unamused:

As I said realistically the idea of using left lane to turn right makes the right lane unusable for that reason.On that note it’s probably more a case of ‘others’ then having no option,not seeing it as acceptable,for the reason you’ve given.Certainly in my case at numerous marked and unmarked examples.

52

TruckdriverTom:
the highway code is used as a guideline on prosecution for careless driving. It states quite clearly which lane should be used in which scenario. The more people use bad positioning, and others see it, then even more people will think it is acceptable.

In reference to the A14 on to A43. So does that mean you are one of the idiots who will pull up next to me on the slip road, when I am in the correct lane ( right one ), then attempt to stay next to me round the roundabout, and get surprised when I want to move over ( at the correct time ) to the left position. :unamused:

Nope, I respect the fact that, whilst I might do things my way, that means it’s my responsibility to cater for others doing it the ‘correct’ way.

So, one of two things will happen. If there’s another truck on the sliproad in the right lane and indicating right, AND they’re behind me, I’ll stick to the right lane too to prevent them from overtaking me on the roundabout. No drama.

If they are in FRONT of me, I’ll use the left lane, indicate right but hang well back, give them a flash when they indicate over, giving them full right of way. No drama.

It depends on the exact circumstances at the time, but I follow a mantra of “I do things my way, without getting in anybody’s way.”

The Highway Code is useful, but doesn’t take precedence over common sense and what I think is correct at the time. For example, the old paradox of three cars hitting a mini roundabout at the exact same time; THC can’t resolve this situation, so good old brains and courtesy come into play. The very fact that THC doesn’t cater for all scenarios is reason enough to treat it only as a good black and white guideline, flexible when the need arises.

53

I do the same as Paul Nowak. Any doubt whatsoever, I simply straddle both lanes until the point of clearly and safely moving into my indicated lane of choice on the exit.

54

Javiatrix:

TruckdriverTom:
the highway code is used as a guideline on prosecution for careless driving. It states quite clearly which lane should be used in which scenario. The more people use bad positioning, and others see it, then even more people will think it is acceptable.

In reference to the A14 on to A43. So does that mean you are one of the idiots who will pull up next to me on the slip road, when I am in the correct lane ( right one ), then attempt to stay next to me round the roundabout, and get surprised when I want to move over ( at the correct time ) to the left position. :unamused:

Nope, I respect the fact that, whilst I might do things my way, that means it’s my responsibility to cater for others doing it the ‘correct’ way.

So, one of two things will happen. If there’s another truck on the sliproad in the right lane and indicating right, AND they’re behind me, I’ll stick to the right lane too to prevent them from overtaking me on the roundabout. No drama.

If they are in FRONT of me, I’ll use the left lane, indicate right but hang well back, give them a flash when they indicate over, giving them full right of way. No drama.

It depends on the exact circumstances at the time, but I follow a mantra of “I do things my way, without getting in anybody’s way.”

The Highway Code is useful, but doesn’t take precedence over common sense and what I think is correct at the time. For example, the old paradox of three cars hitting a mini roundabout at the exact same time; THC can’t resolve this situation, so good old brains and courtesy come into play. The very fact that THC doesn’t cater for all scenarios is reason enough to treat it only as a good black and white guideline, flexible when the need arises.

I like your style and the fact you use sensible logic. Can I ask have you done the Advanced test for Commercial vehicles?

55

albion1971:

Javiatrix:

TruckdriverTom:
In reference to the A14 on to A43. So does that mean you are one of the idiots who will pull up next to me on the slip road, when I am in the correct lane ( right one ), then attempt to stay next to me round the roundabout, and get surprised when I want to move over ( at the correct time ) to the left position. :unamused:

So, one of two things will happen. If there’s another truck on the sliproad in the right lane and indicating right, AND they’re behind me, I’ll stick to the right lane too to prevent them from overtaking me on the roundabout. No drama.

If they are in FRONT of me, I’ll use the left lane, indicate right but hang well back, give them a flash when they indicate over, giving them full right of way. No drama.

It depends on the exact circumstances at the time, but I follow a mantra of “I do things my way, without getting in anybody’s way.”

The Highway Code is useful, but doesn’t take precedence over common sense and what I think is correct at the time. For example, the old paradox of three cars hitting a mini roundabout at the exact same time; THC can’t resolve this situation, so good old brains and courtesy come into play. The very fact that THC doesn’t cater for all scenarios is reason enough to treat it only as a good black and white guideline, flexible when the need arises.

I like your style and the fact you use sensible logic. Can I ask have you done the Advanced test for Commercial vehicles?

:open_mouth: :laughing:

Explain more about this advanced driving idea of entering a roundabout on the left to turn right and then moving to the right to stop any traffic that’s entered it on the right to turn right.Or waiting at the exit crossing point for any traffic using the roundabout according to the highway code.Bearing in mind that it’s likely to be more than one vehicle,ahead,at the side,and behind on the right and more than one vehicle on the left all trying to get to the same exit on the right.All of which could be avoided by using the roundabout according to the highway code. :unamused: Unless space requirements dictate all of the roundabout being used to make the turn.

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You will find out more about it if you do your advanced driving on LGV’S. The idea has been around for years and I am surprised you have never heard of it before.My hgv instructor told me about it when I did my training in the 70’s. Don’t tell me your one missed that bit out!
Do some research and you can learn all about it and it will save 10 pages on this thread countless pointless arguments and me trying to decipher your long winded theories.

57

albion1971:
You will find out more about it if you do your advanced driving on LGV’S. The idea has been around for years and I am surprised you have never heard of it before.My hgv instructor told me about it when I did my training in the 70’s. Don’t tell me your one missed that bit out!
Do some research and you can learn all about it and it will save 10 pages on this thread countless pointless arguments and me trying to decipher your long winded theories.

So which lane would you be in to turn right at the roundabout at this point here bearing in mind Javiatrix’s post ?.

google.com/maps/@51.3352722, … 312!8i6656

58

Carryfast:

albion1971:
You will find out more about it if you do your advanced driving on LGV’S. The idea has been around for years and I am surprised you have never heard of it before.My hgv instructor told me about it when I did my training in the 70’s. Don’t tell me your one missed that bit out!
Do some research and you can learn all about it and it will save 10 pages on this thread countless pointless arguments and me trying to decipher your long winded theories.

So which lane would you be in to turn right at this point here bearing in mind Javiatrix’s post ?.

google.com/maps/@51.3352722, … 312!8i6656

That’s a definite ‘left laner’. In fact, the road markings indicate both lanes to be used to ‘turn right’, although in this situation ‘right’ is actually considered ‘straight on’ as per the road markings. This is because the second exit is redundant, i.e. only to re-enter the carriageway you just left.

edited to say - this is also why you see no road markings displaying a right turn.

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Javiatrix:

Carryfast:

albion1971:
You will find out more about it if you do your advanced driving on LGV’S. The idea has been around for years and I am surprised you have never heard of it before.My hgv instructor told me about it when I did my training in the 70’s. Don’t tell me your one missed that bit out!
Do some research and you can learn all about it and it will save 10 pages on this thread countless pointless arguments and me trying to decipher your long winded theories.

So which lane would you be in to turn right at this point here bearing in mind Javiatrix’s post ?.

google.com/maps/@51.3352722, … 312!8i6656

That’s a definite ‘left laner’. In fact, the road markings indicate both lanes to be used to ‘turn right’, although in this situation ‘right’ is actually considered ‘straight on’ as per the road markings. This is because the second exit is redundant, i.e. only to re-enter the carriageway you just left.

edited to say - this is also why you see no road markings displaying a right turn.

Not exactly.The council seem to think that it could be left,or right or something in between.Take your pick.

Tell me about it.I see it loads of times when traffic from the right going southbound,that has been ordered to use the right lane to turn right to go southbound,meets traffic turning right in the left hand lane on the approach to the southbound exit.Very advanced. :laughing: :laughing:

google.com/maps/@51.3344564, … 312!8i6656

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In which situation the diversion signs take priority, therefore the left lane method is inappropriate.

Nobody’s saying to use the left lane all the time and nobody’s going to be inconvenienced. But, used in the correct circumstances in the context of a judgment call at the time, it is safer and aids traffic flow, whilst also following that most important rule to keep left where possible.

Of course this method wouldn’t be fit for use by drivers who look out only for themselves and ■■■■■■■■ to everyone else, but used considerately, is very effective. I must do this 2-3 times a day and have NEVER caused somebody to take evasive action/be surprised by my position :sunglasses: