Do you pay your nightly rates for your lads plus their parking as well.
You should do.
Not too sure what you mean by that question mate. Do you mean “do you pay drivers their hourly rate whilst off duty and parked up away from base?” If that was the question then I imagine a resounding no will be the answer.
If however you are asking do people pay parking charges on top of the agreed night out money? I imagine you’ll get lots of differing answers.
My own take on it is that it’s your vehicle carrying goods in your care so how much value do you place on that? If you aren’t prepared to pay the parking on top (which incidentally you should’ve factored into your quote already) then you need to be prepared for your drivers to park in unsuitable places with the inevitable fuel thefts, curtain damage and goods getting pilfered.
My apologies if I misunderstood your original question btw.
the maoster:
Not too sure what you mean by that question mate. Do you mean “do you pay drivers their hourly rate whilst off duty and parked up away from base?” If that was the question then I imagine a resounding no will be the answer.If however you are asking do people pay parking charges on top of the agreed night out money? I imagine you’ll get lots of differing answers.
My own take on it is that it’s your vehicle carrying goods in your care so how much value do you place on that? If you aren’t prepared to pay the parking on top (which incidentally you should’ve factored into your quote already) then you need to be prepared for your drivers to park in unsuitable places with the inevitable fuel thefts, curtain damage and goods getting pilfered.
My apologies if I misunderstood your original question btw.
Cheers for the response, Yeah i was meaning paying night out money plus parking as well. Currently a subbie so I was wondering. Been on the go with a few wagons for a couple months and trying to ascertain the norm.
Jake_Brake:
the maoster:
Not too sure what you mean by that question mate. Do you mean “do you pay drivers their hourly rate whilst off duty and parked up away from base?” If that was the question then I imagine a resounding no will be the answer.If however you are asking do people pay parking charges on top of the agreed night out money? I imagine you’ll get lots of differing answers.
My own take on it is that it’s your vehicle carrying goods in your care so how much value do you place on that? If you aren’t prepared to pay the parking on top (which incidentally you should’ve factored into your quote already) then you need to be prepared for your drivers to park in unsuitable places with the inevitable fuel thefts, curtain damage and goods getting pilfered.
My apologies if I misunderstood your original question btw.
Cheers for the response, Yeah i was meaning paying night out money plus parking as well. Currently a subbie so I was wondering. Been on the go with a few wagons for a couple months and trying to ascertain the norm.
normally parking is separate, ours dont pay for parking unless office says so but pulling large concrete sections and bagged waste on flats doesnt warrent secure parking + i dont park with full tank of fuel
I don’t employ drivers at the moment but when I do I’ll be offering a parking budget. Say £80 a week for parking and if they don’t spend it all then at the end of the year some sort of bonus.
Most weeks £80 will cover four nights of parking. Drivers then get the choice of paying for parking or finding a comfy industrial estate or supermarket layby to park in. I also operate an midday to midday fueling policy so that the truck will never park up with full tanks if in a layby.
Of course high value loads won’t count, but £20 of the weekly budget will be taken away. That way if I have to tell a driver to park at London Gateway for example, its not unfair to them.
Given the HMRC cerfufle about subsistence allowence I’ll probably price nights out into salary, less admin that way.
Why should the driver pay anything for parking YOUR vehicle.
Why should a driver not have access to wash and toilet facilities.
When you go home at night do you pop into the street with a carrier bag or ■■■■ up against your car then wipe your hands with wet wipes then eat your dinner 
Then why would you expect your driver to do this pay the full amount ffs you can claim the tax back on it.
Many secure parking sites can be paid through a SNAP account. If you have a SNAP account its hassle free, no need to reimburse drivers in any way, all taken care of by being invoiced to your company. Simples.
nick2008:
Why should the driver pay anything for parking YOUR vehicle.
Why should a driver not have access to wash and toilet facilities.
When you go home at night do you pop into the street with a carrier bag or ■■■■ up against your car then wipe your hands with wet wipes then eat your dinner
Then why would you expect your driver to do this pay the full amount ffs you can claim the tax back on it.
If you come into this industry thinking it’s truckstops and MSAs every night you need educating. Yes, in an ideal world you would have these facilities available right next to the cab but in the world we actually live in the needs of the business also feature.
I wouldn’t be happy employing a driver who didn’t understand that occasionally they may have to park up at a drop rather than the truckstops which is twenty miles detour away. Or that is late for a drop because they stopped short to find a steak and got stuck in traffic.
Or, God forbid, have to deal with a prima Donna when the load is late going on and their favorite MSA is full so they can’t get in.
As for the tax deductable bit, if I pay £10 for parking I can reclaim the VAT but the other £8 is an operating expense. Do that every night and you are looking at £1668 per truck per year out of profit. Go to a more reasonable parking charge, (how many places charge less than a tenner??) and you are looking more like 3k for a truck out four nights a week.
That’s not even looking at the effect it would have on cash flow even if I could get it all back from the government.
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The needs of the business can go ■■■■ itself if it ever demands parking up close to the drop/collection rather than at hygienic facilities some 20 miles away which might mean gobbling up some of your precious diesel.
xichrisxi:
You should do.
True…But…
We were paid for parking if we had to use it occasionally.
As you know parking in certain places comes with various inclusions such as dinner, breakfast and so on.
Boss whinged sometimes that he was paying twice cos night out money already included meal allowances but nothing ever happened.
That was until a few of the lads started taking the ■■■■ going out of their way every night to the place that included the most freebies in the parking ticket.
Boss suddenly saw the charges and mileage racking up and there ended that little perk.
Paid Parking only when and where instructed by the office now and oddly enough very seldom to get any free meals included.
Oh well…!!!
Our loads are very high value and we have to park at specified sites and 90% of the time, can’t stay with the vehicle, so generally it’s a hotel with £20.00 eve food limit ( unless you are in the middle of nowhere and the choice of food is limited).
If we are running empty, then it’s stop wherever you want and we pay parking if there is any + night out.
cav551:
The needs of the business can go [zb] itself if it ever demands parking up close to the drop/collection rather than at hygienic facilities some 20 miles away which might mean gobbling up some of your precious diesel.
OK, that’s fine, you win. I’ll pay for parking every night because you didn’t think about what tramping might mean before signing up. Here is the bad news. I was going to pay you £30k a year, now I’m only going to pay you £25k to cover the extra costs.
Those are by the way, the above agreed 3.5k for parking charges, and at your estimated milage, and this weeks fuel price, 1.6k in diesel over the the 42.4 weeks you would drive it in a year assuming you took all holidays and did 4.3 nights out a week for the rest of the year.
I used to be like you, bemoaning the fact. The boss has a bog he can use 24/7 while we have to hold it in but now I am an operator I can see part of where they were coming from. You will note I’m not advocating laybys every night. Instead, collection and delivery locations, where 9/10 there will be a toilet you can use, or round the back of supermarkets, which are usually 24hrs these days and offer toilets a lot more hygienic than most MSAs. Where parking is free and fairly secure.
I am also aware of the argument that £25 is cheaper than the GIT excess and that’s true, but there I an no GIT excess on an empty trailer and no one is going to steal waste so when these are on the back why shouldn’t you park up in a place that covers your human needs, if only just, but saves the business a small fortune too? Don’t forget, if you don’t like it, you can always change careers.
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So when your tramp reaches half an hour left of driving time or working time, you expect him to drive past the services/truck stop alongside and carry on to park outside the drop, to save you money/time in the morning or possibly even to tip while off the card so that you can get an extra load in that week and make the spreadsheet look better?
Your time would be better spent on obtaining your own work at sensibly negotiated haulage rates which take into account all the costs of running a lorry. But rule no 1 should be to ensure that you know how much the load is going to pay before it goes on the back of the lorry.
Will you be introducing a damages reimbursement from wages clause in the tramp’s contract as the next wheeze?
cav551:
So when your tramp reaches half an hour left of driving time or working time, you expect him to drive past the services/truck stop alongside and carry on to park outside the drop, to save you money/time in the morning
If he has the drive time to get to a suitable stopping location which is free then yes, I would expect him to drive past the services. It’s a reasonable expectation, and if you will look at my first post in this topic, the benefits would be shared with him in the form of a bonus at the end of the year or quarter so its worth his while too.
cav551:
or possibly even to tip while off the card so that you can get an extra load in that week and make the spreadsheet look better?
If you have any evidence at all to back up your suggestion that I would myself, or ask one of my drivers, operate illegally I suggest you bring it forward. Otherwise keep your defamatory suggestions to yourself. There is a world of difference between asking a driver to park securely for free and asking a driver to work off the card, the first is good business, the other is illegal and I am furious that you would suggest it.
cav551:
Will you be introducing a damages reimbursement from wages clause in the tramp’s contract as the next wheeze?
No, unless serious contributory negligence can be proven I wouldn’t dock a drivers pay for bumps and dings. These things happen. If serious contributory negligence can be proven, not only would his pay be docked but it would come with a P45.
Regarding your consistent use of the word tramp. I would appreciate it if you would make the distinction between a tramp, defined as:
Google Dictionary:
noun
noun: tramp; plural noun: tramps
a person who travels from place to place on foot in search of work or as a vagrant or beggar.
synonyms: vagrant, vagabond, homeless person, derelict, down-and-out
and ‘Tramper’, defined throughout the industry as someone who spends several nights a week away from home in the cab.
The former is someone to be supported, aided and perhaps pitied. The latter is a skilled man doing an important job.
nsmith1180:
I also operate an midday to midday fueling policy so that the truck will never park up with full tanks if in a layby.
.
Jesus mate , your going to struggle to find drivers to do the job how you want it done
chaversdad:
nsmith1180:
I also operate an midday to midday fueling policy so that the truck will never park up with full tanks if in a layby.
.Jesus mate , your going to struggle to find drivers to do the job how you want it done
That was me only. As long as any driver I employ takes reasonable care he can park up where he likes on full tanks. I personally, having woken up in the morning to that empty feeling, do my best to never park up with more than 50% fuel.
Sorry I didn’t make that clear.
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Hurryup&wait:
xichrisxi:
You should do.True…But…
We were paid for parking if we had to use it occasionally.
As you know parking in certain places comes with various inclusions such as dinner, breakfast and so on.
Boss whinged sometimes that he was paying twice cos night out money already included meal allowances but nothing ever happened.
That was until a few of the lads started taking the ■■■■ going out of their way every night to the place that included the most freebies in the parking ticket.
Boss suddenly saw the charges and mileage racking up and there ended that little perk.Paid Parking only when and where instructed by the office now and oddly enough very seldom to get any free meals included.
Oh well…!!!
I have some drivers who are well versed in avoiding truck stops cos they dislike them and never bring me parking tickets. Then there are some who consistently park in them even when empty. And I am aware that some include meals showers etc which night out money should cover. I have stated in my policy that parking will only be re-reimbursed when a high value load is on board and confirmation must be received from supplier that load is in fact high value. Otherwise dip into allowance which is what its for.
The allowance IS for meals and showers although one could argue that an employer is obliged to provide washing facilities. What it is NOT for is parking the employer’s vehicle overnight. It is also worth noting that regular overnight parking in the same layby or industrial estate road by an operator’s vehicles might be brought to the attention of the Traffic Commissioner, regardless of whether that occurs locally to his operating centre.
Bring on the roadside call out invoices for slashed curtains and punctured fuel tanks. Or is this industry now heading for employment contracts which make the driver financially liable for any damages which the operator decrees to be the result of what he views as irresponsible parking?
cav551:
The allowance IS for meals and showers although one could argue that an employer is obliged to provide washing facilities. What it is NOT for is parking the employer’s vehicle overnight. It is also worth noting that regular overnight parking in the same layby or industrial estate road by an operator’s vehicles might be brought to the attention of the Traffic Commissioner, regardless of whether that occurs locally to his operating centre.Bring on the roadside call out invoices for slashed curtains and punctured fuel tanks. Or is this industry now heading for employment contracts which make the driver financially liable for any damages which the operator decrees to be the result of what he views as irresponsible parking?
The Freight Transport Association:
The operating centre is defined as the base or centre at which a vehicle is normally kept. Operating centres must be specified on the licence before they can be used. The term ‘normally kept’ usually refers to where the vehicle is normally parked when not in use.
If the driver is sleeping in the vehicle then it’s in use so you could park it in the same place every night of the week if you wanted too, provided that when there is no driver in the vehicle for a night it is parked at the registered Operating Centre.
And the allowance is to cover the costs associated with a night out in the vehicle, which is why the amount is different to that paid to mobile workers staying in hotels all week. Costs associated could be argued as the cost of parking the vehicle, though I can’t think of any case law off hand that has ruled either way.
The employer has an obligation to cater for the health, safety and well being of their staff. I could easily make the point, which is made by many a large haulier, that you have access to facilities for washing and personal hygiene because you are usually able to access a shower or facilities for a through wash when stopped at an MSA or truck stop for your break.
Cav551, I have to ask. Are you actually an operator or are you one of the employed drivers who pops their head around the door of the Owners and Operators forum every now and then, (as I used to be!)? Either way I’m sure that all the guys that have been here for years are happy for you to contribute and I quite enjoy debating your positions with you. But. You don’t seem to understand operator licensing properly, you seem to have a very entitled view of what an employer is required to provide and you don’t seem to understand that a potential for £3500 outgoings a year is something that really should be minimised as much as possible.
I have learned very quickly since putting mine on the road that several of the ‘facts’ of running a truck that you know as a driver are completely different when its your name on the side of the unit. I used to think that four nights a week in a truck stop shouldn’t kill the business.
But lets say all ONP costs the £18 charge at J38 Truck Stop. Take off the VAT and thats £15 a night. Go four nights a week, 52 weeks of the year and it comes to £3,120, or three weeks diesel, three weeks of a driver, a month and a half of a 64 plate Actros, fully maintained on hire, five and a half months of combined Road insurance, PLI, Employers Liabilty and Goods in Transit insurance. Its 80% of the cost of a sliding skelly for a year, again fully maintained. Its probably three times your annual planned maintenance budget for a unit, (though I don’t know on this one, as I said, all my stuff is hired with maintenance included.)
The earlier point about pricing ONP into the job is a good one, and if everyone did that it would work well. Unfortunately every operator on here has to compete with every other operator with a Standard O-Licence in the UK and if, as is the case, a large portion of those don’t pay for parking, then an operator who does is automatically £3k per vehicle more expensive than an Eddie, or a DHL or any of the others. On a one vehicle contract that could very well lose you the gig. On a ten vehicle job, you are looking at being 2 warehousemen more expensive, just on parking costs alone.
That doesn’t even begin to take into account the flip-flops who will come over here, run around on cut price diesel, pay their drivers a fraction of what the law (quite rightly) requires a UK haulier to pay and park up in laybys, industrial estates and even residential areas for nothing, who we also have to compete with.
I’m going to end now with a quote I learned when working at a McDonalds restaurant. Its from Ray Kroc, the bloke that went to sell the McDonald brothers a shake machine for the one small restaurant, bought the place and turned it into a $3.7bn company by his death:
“You must monitor and control all aspects of your business if you expect it to be a success.”