A slap-up lunch for two on top of an exotic vacation?
Don’t ever let Bewick kid you about the state of his pension!!! 
Bumped up, as trailers seems to be a bit of a theme this week!
I recall that the practice in circa 1983 of “sticking” a third axle into a tandem axle trailer was absolute folly !! These “converted” trailers were total twelve wheeled over braked abortions ! IMHO, others may hold a different opinion !! 
Cheers Bewick
Pictures of bonnetted tractive units pulling 12m trailers on the Continent are legion (an example is posted below). That couldn’t be done in UK as it put the overall length of the equipage into illegality.
I notice that the French, Dutch and Swedish, in particular, seemed to have been more relaxed about this pre-1990. Did they have a different criterium for allowing such outfits?
ERF-NGC-European:
Pictures of bonnetted tractive units pulling 12m trailers on the Continent are legion (an example is posted below). That couldn’t be done in UK as it put the overall length of the equipage into illegality.I notice that the French, Dutch and Swedish, in particular, seemed to have been more relaxed about this pre-1990. Did they have a different criterium for allowing such outfits?
0
N
Hey Robert,
Not legal, with a bonneted tractive unit, was and is only possible with the todays legislation, so 16.50 meters overall
and a 40ft trailer behind a bonneted tractor is inside the 16.50 meters, but for a long time, Police didn’t checked it, but today inpossible to drive a bonnet with a 45ft behind, even today 1 feet to long and you have big trouble.
In the good days lots pulled 40ft trailers behind a bonneted tractor, but because of our in Belgium always shot wheelbases, the
fifth wheel put a lot backwards, not legal but we did, only for the MOT here yearly, we had to put it on the original place, but for police, no probem. Today everything is big problem, and they start with 350 Euro fines, but easily you have to pay 1000 or more, it is not to do here anymore, they are crazy. Money money. 
Eric,
tiptop495:
ERF-NGC-European:
Pictures of bonnetted tractive units pulling 12m trailers on the Continent are legion (an example is posted below). That couldn’t be done in UK as it put the overall length of the equipage into illegality.I notice that the French, Dutch and Swedish, in particular, seemed to have been more relaxed about this pre-1990. Did they have a different criterium for allowing such outfits?
0
N
Hey Robert,Not legal, with a bonneted tractive unit, was and is only possible with the todays legislation, so 16.50 meters overall
and a 40ft trailer behind a bonneted tractor is inside the 16.50 meters, but for a long time, Police didn’t checked it, but today inpossible to drive a bonnet with a 45ft behind, even today 1 feet to long and you have big trouble.
In the good days lots pulled 40ft trailers behind a bonneted tractor, but because of our in Belgium always shot wheelbases, the
fifth wheel put a lot backwards, not legal but we did, only for the MOT here yearly, we had to put it on the original place, but for police, no probem. Today everything is big problem, and they start with 350 Euro fines, but easily you have to pay 1000 or more, it is not to do here anymore, they are crazy. Money money.Eric,
Thanks Eric! That explains everything. The rules were the same here but they were enforced. I remember when Belgium tightened up on vehicle lengths, especially in the '90s, because I got fined at the Belgian / Dutch border for being a few centimetres overlength with a lorry and trailer (drawbar / wipcar) outfit. Times change!
ERF-NGC-European:
Pictures of bonnetted tractive units pulling 12m trailers on the Continent are legion (an example is posted below). That couldn’t be done in UK as it put the overall length of the equipage into illegality.I notice that the French, Dutch and Swedish, in particular, seemed to have been more relaxed about this pre-1990. Did they have a different criterium for allowing such outfits?
0
A criterium is a bicycle race, over multiple laps of a short circuit.
[zb]
anorak:ERF-NGC-European:
Pictures of bonnetted tractive units pulling 12m trailers on the Continent are legion (an example is posted below). That couldn’t be done in UK as it put the overall length of the equipage into illegality.I notice that the French, Dutch and Swedish, in particular, seemed to have been more relaxed about this pre-1990. Did they have a different criterium for allowing such outfits?
0
A criterium is a bicycle race, over multiple laps of a short circuit.
Well spotted! I did, of course, mean criterion. 
Here are some 12-tyre trailers, where super-singles would not be enough:
youtube.com/channel/UCEsMbQ … IhfMdFy6FA
The so-called developing world does not need job creation schemes. Therefore, its vehicles are designed to move as much stuff, for as little work, as possible.
[zb]
anorak:
Here are some 12-tyre trailers, where super-singles would not be enough:
youtube.com/channel/UCEsMbQ … IhfMdFy6FAThe so-called developing world does not need job creation schemes. Therefore, its vehicles are designed to move as much stuff, for as little work, as possible.
That reminded me of when I was in northern Pakistan on the Karakoram Highway. Here’s a pic I took up there:
Those Pakistani artics are grossing 70ton+. Have a look on the Chinese Youtube channels, and there are 7 axle coal tippers grossing over 100 ton. Their people move 3 or 4 times as much stuff as a European driver, per hour. The roads and vehicles may need a bit more maintenance, but the efficiency of the transport sector frees up more than enough labour to cover it. That still leaves enough people to generate a healthy surplus, making consumer products for the 40 tonne markets of Europe and the US. We’re the slaves, working 60 hours a week, just to cover a mortgage and a few toys.
I’ve turned into a commie, on the strength of a few lorry videos.
Punchy Dan:
The one thing I’ve never worked out is why so many front lifts on trailers ,imo the rear lift is the advantage .
Have to disagree with you there Dan, one of the biggest problems for empty vehicles is lack of drive axle traction, front lifter adds a little extra welcome weight to the front of the trailer, conversely raising a rear axle lessens weight making traction an even bigger problem, let alone rear overhang issues, the difference in driving dynamics between the two is really noticeable.
My years on the car transporters made me acutely aware of how affected handling was by even the slightest alteration in weight distribution, even one quite basic car stuck on the back of an otherwise empty modern design transporter could make it handle about as accurately as a supermarket trolley with a gammy castor, weight positioning when loading became ever more a priority when loading where possible, you should see how unstable some transporters are on the road if the driver has got this badly wrong, cue the caravan wobbles which have got so out of control the whole lot’s gone over.
Hey,
Which were the benifits for a 12 tyres trailer in England ■■?, especially in the 32 ton time.
We only used tridem for international transport, or wide speads, driving them in Belgim was no interesting, because, because it gave only more empty weight plus extra costs
and the gross weight was the same as on 4 axles. 4 or 5 it was always 38 ton max.
Eric,
tiptop495:
Hey,Which were the benifits for a 12 tyres trailer in England ■■?, especially in the 32 ton time.
We only used tridem for international transport, or wide speads, driving them in Belgim was no interesting, because, because it gave only more empty weight plus extra costs
and the gross weight was the same as on 4 axles. 4 or 5 it was always 38 ton max.Eric,
Someone put me right here if I’m wrong; but as I remember it, the spread-axe tandem trailers pivoted on the front axle when turning, whereas the tri-axle trailers pivotted on the centre axle, thus considerably reducing tyre scrub.
TO DOWNUNDER:
I have just accidentally deleted your post replying to mine . You mentioned that different axles pivoted according to the height of the turntable. Interesting point!
I meant when going in reverse. I never really took much notice of which axle was pivotal when travelling forwards. Sorry about the deletion!
ERF-NGC-European:
TO DOWNUNDER:I have just accidentally deleted your post replying to mine
I meant when going in reverse. I never really took much notice of which axle was pivotal when travelling forwards. Sorry about the deletion!
The joys of being a Mod, with too many buttons to work out, eh?
No harm done E-N-E, I hadn’t turned the page on another device.
Which axle the trailer pivots on depends on turntable height, in relation to suspension height and weight distribution. The same trailer can pivot on different axles, on different prime movers.
This will apply in either direction, but is more noticeable in reverse as A- the driver is concentrating on the trailer and its behavior and B- normally tigher turns are made in reverse.
In the 70s, due to bridge formulas, maximum weight was only available on two axle semi-trailers with a 10’ 1" spread between the axles. They were “interesting” to reverse on uneven ground, as the pivoting axle changed.
Star down under.:
No harm done E-N-E, I hadn’t turned the page on another device.Which axle the trailer pivots on depends on turntable height, in relation to suspension height and weight distribution. The same trailer can pivot on different axles, on different prime movers.
This will apply in either direction, but is more noticeable in reverse as A- the driver is concentrating on the trailer and its behavior and B- normally tigher turns are made in reverse.
In the 70s, due to bridge formulas, maximum weight was only available on two axle semi-trailers with a 10’ 1" spread between the axles. They were “interesting” to reverse on uneven ground, as the pivoting axle changed.
Thank you for your forbearance! 