If a customer were to own 1 trailer, but not tractor units, and the trailer were only to be pulled by a subbie, would they need an O licence?
No, in a word. They can have a thousand trailers never mind one. The subby must of course have the space for it on their licence and the subby is totally responsible for the condition and legality of any trailers he pulls.
But, if it’s not my trailer, not kept at my operating centre, and I don’t arrange the maintenance of it, it wouldn’t be on my licence. I would only be responsible for checking its basic roadworthiness when doing a walk round check when I used it, surely?
I know a company that does that with container trailers.
Example.
Their drivers pick up a skelly on a Monday, use it all week, and then on a Saturday return to base with it to get their weekly rest in. The following Monday, they do the same again with a different trailer, usually, although they might keep the same trailer for a week or two.
Eventually, that trailer is swapped for another, and because they are not keeping the same trailer for more than 30 days consecutively, as they are hiring it from the shipper, and it’s not based at their operating centre, they don’t declare it, as effectively they are doing traction only work.
Ken.
This might be of help to you,
Guide to maintaining roadworthiness3.3
Traction services and third party trailers
Operators can provide a traction-only service to customers who wish to
own their own trailers for branding and loading purposes but do not wish to
operate vehicles to pull them. It is also common practice for an operator who
may own trailers but is also contracted to tow third party trailers not owned or
maintained by them.
Ensuring third party trailer roadworthiness can be problematic for the traction
service operator. Usually for short-term use the trailer owner would be
responsible for the routine maintenance of the trailer, including the safety
inspection (SI). Under these circumstances, traction operators are reliant on
the trailer owner to correctly carry out their own safety inspections within their
stated frequency and complete any necessary repairs.
The traction operator is responsible for ensuring a thorough walkaround
check of the tractor/trailer combination is carried out to establish it is
safe prior to use. If defects are identified during the walkaround check,
these should be rectified prior to use.
Traction operators would be expected to work with the trailer owners to ensure
any trailers operated fall within the owner’s agreed SI frequency and that they
are roadworthy. It is best practice for the trailer owner to provide evidence for
the operator that first use checks and safety inspections have been undertaken
and demonstrate there are no outstanding defects reported for the trailer.
There must also be a robust system in place to ensure defects identified during
the walkaround check, or develop during use, are recorded and rectified before
the tractor/trailer combination is operated in an unroadworthy condition.
All well and good, but a pg9 on that trailer will still go against YOUR ocrs score.
Not really Muckles, as it still doesn’t clear up the O licence question. I get the maintenance bit, just cannot find another clear direction on licensing.
cracker-bar:
But, if it’s not my trailer, not kept at my operating centre, and I don’t arrange the maintenance of it, it wouldn’t be on my licence. I would only be responsible for checking its basic roadworthiness when doing a walk round check when I used it, surely?
Sorry, but you’re entirely wrong. If a trailer is fastened to your unit it’s on your O licence. You must have space on your licence for it and you are entirely liable under law for its legal operation. The fact that you neither keep it permanently nor arrange its maintenance are totally irrelevant.
acd1202:
cracker-bar:
But, if it’s not my trailer, not kept at my operating centre, and I don’t arrange the maintenance of it, it wouldn’t be on my licence. I would only be responsible for checking its basic roadworthiness when doing a walk round check when I used it, surely?Sorry, but you’re entirely wrong. If a trailer is fastened to your unit it’s on your O licence. You must have space on your licence for it and you are entirely liable under law for its legal operation. The fact that you neither keep it permanently nor arrange its maintenance are totally irrelevant.
And when it’s not attached to my unit? What I’m getting at here is, the actual responsibility for legality of the trailer. If the owner does not require an O licence, then the trailer is not obliged to be kept to an inspection regime, how many operators, doing traction only, ask when a trailer was last inspected? I understand totally about when it is connected to somebody’s unit, but do not understand the legal implications of responsibility to the owner.
cracker-bar:
acd1202:
cracker-bar:
But, if it’s not my trailer, not kept at my operating centre, and I don’t arrange the maintenance of it, it wouldn’t be on my licence. I would only be responsible for checking its basic roadworthiness when doing a walk round check when I used it, surely?Sorry, but you’re entirely wrong. If a trailer is fastened to your unit it’s on your O licence. You must have space on your licence for it and you are entirely liable under law for its legal operation. The fact that you neither keep it permanently nor arrange its maintenance are totally irrelevant.
And when it’s not attached to my unit? What I’m getting at here is, the actual responsibility for legality of the trailer. If the owner does not require an O licence, then the trailer is not obliged to be kept to an inspection regime, how many operators, doing traction only, ask when a trailer was last inspected? I understand totally about when it is connected to somebody’s unit, but do not understand the legal implications of responsibility to the owner.
My firm pulls HV test trailers for a cable firm and have no input in the inspections but they are inspected every 6 weeks
The cable firm has its own O licence
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cracker-bar:
acd1202:
cracker-bar:
But, if it’s not my trailer, not kept at my operating centre, and I don’t arrange the maintenance of it, it wouldn’t be on my licence. I would only be responsible for checking its basic roadworthiness when doing a walk round check when I used it, surely?Sorry, but you’re entirely wrong. If a trailer is fastened to your unit it’s on your O licence. You must have space on your licence for it and you are entirely liable under law for its legal operation. The fact that you neither keep it permanently nor arrange its maintenance are totally irrelevant.
And when it’s not attached to my unit? What I’m getting at here is, the actual responsibility for legality of the trailer. If the owner does not require an O licence, then the trailer is not obliged to be kept to an inspection regime, how many operators, doing traction only, ask when a trailer was last inspected? I understand totally about when it is connected to somebody’s unit, but do not understand the legal implications of responsibility to the owner.
Your responsible for the legality when its attached to your unit.
Ask or dont ask, your still legally responsible for the trailer. Thats why first use inspections exist.
A trailer hire firm can have millions of trailers, they still dont need a o-license.
Whereas an o-license for 1 unit is useless as you need that trailer margin for your license to be able to pull a trailer.
In simple terms if its attached to your unit, your responsible for making sure it legal, thats whether you own the trailer or not.
acd1202:
cracker-bar:
But, if it’s not my trailer, not kept at my operating centre, and I don’t arrange the maintenance of it, it wouldn’t be on my licence. I would only be responsible for checking its basic roadworthiness when doing a walk round check when I used it, surely?Sorry, but you’re entirely wrong. If a trailer is fastened to your unit it’s on your O licence. You must have space on your licence for it and you are entirely liable under law for its legal operation. The fact that you neither keep it permanently nor arrange its maintenance are totally irrelevant.
The official guidance seems to now be you need trailer space but there are lots of traction only operators that never have historically. If you never park it at your operating centre it is unclear why you should be advertising misleading the public into complaining about something that will not be operated from there.
To be clear there is no financial requirement for trailers so the only difference to the licence application is what goes in the advert. You then potentially have a member of the public thinking a trailer will be going in and out of tight access or a DVSA office bod looking on streetview saying there is no space for a trailer you will never park there.
Ultimately there is nothing to stop you registering a separate entity company as a trailer hire co and paying a nominal fee to rent them.
cracker-bar:
acd1202:
cracker-bar:
But, if it’s not my trailer, not kept at my operating centre, and I don’t arrange the maintenance of it, it wouldn’t be on my licence. I would only be responsible for checking its basic roadworthiness when doing a walk round check when I used it, surely?Sorry, but you’re entirely wrong. If a trailer is fastened to your unit it’s on your O licence. You must have space on your licence for it and you are entirely liable under law for its legal operation. The fact that you neither keep it permanently nor arrange its maintenance are totally irrelevant.
And when it’s not attached to my unit? What I’m getting at here is, the actual responsibility for legality of the trailer. If the owner does not require an O licence, then the trailer is not obliged to be kept to an inspection regime, how many operators, doing traction only, ask when a trailer was last inspected? I understand totally about when it is connected to somebody’s unit, but do not understand the legal implications of responsibility to the owner.
It is a flaw in the system there is no real enforcement regime that can be readily brought to bear on trailer only operators who have not got units or trucks under an o-licence. Ultimately you’re reliant on them keeping their kit together on the basis it’s in their own best interest to do so.
Once it’s attached to your truck though it’s like one vehicle all under your liability as far a stop is concerned. However, as per earlier links DVSA are aware that many operators pull trailers that don’t belong to them and you can only hope they would be reasonable if a defect could not be readily detected from a thorough walkaround or a short time on the road with an observant driver.
It’s a long time since I put a vehicle on my operator licence but was required in those days to have at least 1 trailer per artic, on the form there was even a section to enter the type of operation. ie.Tipper, Tanker. Low Loader. Flat. Tilt. Curtain, etc.
This let the authorities decide on the inspection period, it could be 4 to 12 weeks, not rigidly 6 weeks. A lot of people were doing ferry trailers from the ports, these trailers maybe only saw a workshop at testing time. Mobile mechanics maybe did a walk round the dock but didn’t get dirty.
It is a matter of experience and trust.
In my past, providing traction some trailer operators are totally professional, others not so good.
Cargo Care back in the 90s trailers were obviously maintained including any scuffs and tilt damage, good tyres all lights work etc.
Norberts ex Le Havre not so good but generally legal. SeaRoute impeccable mechanicals and tyres.
Move on to 2016 SeaRoute gone ,replaced with De Rijke, zero maintenance, I have the GV9 to prove it. ( Yes I was aware of defects but took a chance )
Norberts all good modern kit, well maintained for a French company.
Present day , ND / EPO now looking shoddy with Bulgarian EPO units. Uk subbies unable to compete. LKW Walter impeccable and have local accounts to Poole ND Portsmouth to carry out repairs as required . But these trailers are homeless and not on any Operators License.
But LKW must retain subbies so hence the professional operation.
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